Racial mix of people at meets

[Elines]

OK – so I know I am treading into potentially sensitive territory.

Is it my imagination or is the racial mix at meets limited to mainly or solely white people?

There was recently a reference in a thread to bushcrafting being ‘middle class’. This description didn’t fit with my experience. I thought that - based on my stays at three sites in the Midlands (Rough Close, Spitewinter and North Wood) - there was a wide mix of people at meets.

I then thought about it a bit more and realised that I had never met a non-white person at these meets. (I have met several people with non-UK accents but all were white.)

Any views on, for example:

· Is bushcrafting a predominantly white activity?
· If it is does this matter?
· If it does matter what might be done about it?

 

[Mesquite]

If you had of come to the moot Chris you would have met quiet a few people from various ethnic minorities

But on the whole the bushcrafting world in the UK is predominatly white orientated.

 

[Elines]

If you had of come to the moot Chris you would have met quiet a few people from various ethnic minorities ................

.

Good, thanks Steve - glad to hear it - I did try to check out the videos of John Fenna's birthday cards but couldn't be definite.

 

[JonathanD]

I've been in Africa a lot learning skills, and I was the only white bloke. I think it harks back to indiginous roots within certain countries.

 

[sandbender]

Any views on, for example:

· Is bushcrafting a predominantly white activity?
· If it is does this matter?

I know a black UK bushcrafter, we met on a Woodlore fundamental course a few years back, but yes I think that in the UK it is a predominantly white activity.

No it doesn't matter, people are drawn to this kind of thing or they are not.

I spent some time in Namibia being taught bushcraft mostly (but not exclusively) by black people.

 

[spandit]

Am I right in thinking that the highest concentrations of non-white people in the UK are in cities? Perhaps because bushcraft happens in the countryside those that live there are more exposed to it?

 

[Barn Owl]

It's just to do with percentages I reckon.

Nothing to do with whether you're black, white or dynamite..

If you like it,you like it, the predominate race being white caucasion in these parts.

have had this type of discussion in other hobbies,basically nothing to report, it's percentages.

Can't make numbers up of a specific race that don't exist in the area.

I refer to my signature, we are all equal.

 

[Wayland]

The low proportion of Caucasians present at meets is something I noticed as well but it seems similar in other outdoor pursuits as well.

I live in a very mixed ethnic community but it's quite rare to see a non Caucasian when I'm up on the hills walking my dog.

I'm not sure it's purely down to percentages but I don't know what other reason there is for it.

 

[tomongoose]

I agree with barn owl I am a keen paintballer a landrover off roader and we get about the same ethnic mix for those activities as well so its probably just percentages, according to wikipedia Britain is 85.67% white British 5.27% White (other) and 1.2% White Irish so that 92.14 percent white

 

[Wayland]

That should still give about 1 non Caucasian for every 11 Caucasians at meets but I've been at many meets with 20 - 30 people, all Caucasian.

The percentage argument is part of the equation but I do believe there is something else involved as well.

It may be some kind of cultural difference but I don't know what it could be.

 

[Elines]

“Am I right in thinking that the highest concentrations of non-white people in the UK are in cities? Perhaps because bushcraft happens in the countryside those that live there are more exposed to it?”

About 90% of the total UK population is in urban areas so this does not seem to be a special factor as most white people must also be in cities http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2009/aug/18/percentage-population-living-cities

“The low proportion of Caucasians present at meets is something I noticed as well but it seems similar in other outdoor pursuits as well.

I live in a very mixed ethnic community but it's quite rare to see a non Caucasian when I'm up on the hills walking my dog.”

Yes – I have noticed that too when I am out walking (around Leicestershire where Leicester is about 50:50 white:non-white)

“It may be some kind of cultural difference but I don't know what it could be.”

Perhaps it is something to do with culture.

For example I have heard ‘culture’ given as the reason why there are not many (?any) Asians (Pakistanis/Indians) in top flight football teams in the UK.

There seem to be plenty of ex (and current) army people at meets. As the UK army includes non-whites I would expect that at least some of those non-white ex-forces people would take up bushcrafting as they already have a lot of the skills, experience etc needed. I would have thought that the army experience (of which I have none at all) could override any inbuilt cultural resistance to bushcrafting. But maybe it hasn’t.

 

[Maggot]

Non-white people even going into the countryside is an issue that is/was being addressed by such groups as The Ramblers, English Nature, The National Trust, English Heritage, BMC, BOF, all sorts. One theory is that there is no heritage of going into the countryside for recreation among the black and Asian populations. The countryside, for many ethnic groups, is where you farm, not enjoy and go for relaxtion and recreation.

I do a lot of orienteering and cycling, again two activities where the populations involved are overwhelmingly white. I did an event last year that had over 1500 participants, I saw one black face!

The statistics and %s thing is all a red-herring. Most people live in urban centres now, and for a couple of hundred years, since the industrial revolution we have been using the countryside as an escape from the new urban living.

I think Sandbender has made the most telling contribution, "I know a Black bushcrafter", it is similar to Wilfred Emmanuel-Jones' marketting strategy! If there is only one, we can all name him!

 

[Elines]

........similar to Wilfred Emmanuel-Jones' marketting strategy! If there is only one, we can all name him!

?what's that then??

 

[rik_uk3]

· Is bushcrafting a predominantly white activity?
· If it is does this matter?
· If it does matter what might be done about it?

Yes
No
Nothing, you can't force people to like it.

Few of my friends would consider glamping, none of my close circle of friends would even entertain the idea of a 'bushcraft' sort of weekend so given the comparative size of the white UK population and the tiny amount of bushcrafters who actually go camping its hardly surprising that few from other backgrounds choose it as a pastime/hobby.

 

[BOD]

It is cultural in that the outdoor pursuits and the concept of wilderness in Anglo-Saxon countries are shaped by the dominant white culture as one would expect. The history and stories are essentially white ones with the odd Tonto or black man thrown in.

The wilderness and bush craft do not influence non-white values to the same extent and as most minorities are concentrated in cities their exposure to the outdoors is very limited especially if they are less well-off and lack the time or transport to get outdoors.

Colonialism and foreign adventures meant that not only was there a concept of Wild Britain or the American wilderness at home, but white people were culturally and linguistically also able to share or tap into the wild places abroad as part of their own white history and concepts of wilderness too. If you are British it is your cultural ‘birth right’ to experience either actually or vicariously through books and media, the wilderness of other cultures be it the Kalahari, the Hindu Kush , the Malayan Jungle, The Rift Valley, Caribbean islands, Canadian wilderness and so on. I meet lots of young people who tell me their Dad or granddad served in Borneo and they want to go into the Ulu to experience what it was like. It is part of their family history

Other white people with a colonial history, like the French, Spanish, Italian, Dutch and Americans have a similar connection to West Africa, Latin America, Abyssinia and Libya, Indonesia and the Philippines to give just a few examples. And they travel to these places to experience wilderness, nature or just have adventures. Where I am now, Indonesia, is full of Dutch people exploring this vast archipelago because they grew up with stories of this place.

But how many Chinese want to go to the Scottish Highlands, the North West Frontier Province, Borneo, Java, the Amazon or Andes as trekkers rather than tourists? The same with Indians, West Indians and a host of other peoples where it is not part of their history. It is even more difficult for the displaced colored colonial diaspora to find a narrative that is part of their culture.

Done in a rush so apologies for any errors or any politically incorrect references.

 

[Elines]

It is cultural in that ...etc.

Thanks for this - it is the first time I have seen the vague explanation 'culture' articulated so that I could see if it made sense or not - and it does.

 

[Opal]

So what do black folk do in their spare time? only met one black person into fishing (he owned a bicycle shop too so there's one hobby I suppose).

 

[sandbender]

"...it is similar to Wilfred Emmanuel-Jones' marketting strategy!..."

?what's that then??

Wilfred Emmanuel-Jones - 'The Black Farmer' as opposed to 'The Black Bushcrafter'.

Wilfred Emmanuel-Jones - Wikipedia

"...He has since become involved in setting up the Black Farmer Scholarship, which aims to help and encourage ethnic minorities to work in the rural community, an area where traditionally they have been under represented. This has been made into a Channel 4 TV series, Young Black Farmers, a series of three, which sees him take a group of nine inner-city school leavers from ethnic minorities on a scholarship on his Devon farm..."

That might be worth watching.

For a black persons take on life in rural England the poet Benjamin Zephaniah lives in a small village in Lincolnshire and has talked about his life there in several interviews. Here is one.

 

[santaman2000]

I suspect that culture, economics, and priorities all play some part.

Economics & Priorities: If an individual of given minority is only recently immigrated (or even years ago but still 1st generation) then likely his/her economic situation and priorities are focused on simply making a living building a new life.

Culture: This is a more complex issue. Some have already suggested that Asian or other cultures might have different opinions/values placed on outdoor activities. True enough on the face of it but culture isn't static. It evolves. Meaning that 2nd, 3rd and subsequent generations after immigration will have been influenced by the culture of their new home and develop a new culture of their own. It's not at all easy to understand in what direction such a new culture will develop.

 

[Maggot]

I suspect that culture, economics, and priorities all play some part.

Economics & Priorities: If an individual of given minority is only recently immigrated (or even years ago but still 1st generation) then likely his/her economic situation and priorities are focused on simply making a living building a new life.

Culture: This is a more complex issue. Some have already suggested that Asian or other cultures might have different opinions/values placed on outdoor activities. True enough on the face of it but culture isn't static. It evolves. Meaning that 2nd, 3rd and subsequent generations after immigration will have been influenced by the culture of their new home and develop a new culture of their own. It's not at all easy to understand in what direction such a new culture will develop.

There are huge numbers of immigrants into the UK, from many years ago, who are still unable to converse in English. Indeed, there are large numbers of, particularly Asian women, who are 3rd generation immigrants to the UK, and they can't speak English either. Their culturally heritage is so strong that they have either chosen or been unable to develop a culture of their own.

As for the original question, well, maybe Bushcraft is seen as a bit of a male, white, middle class thing to do because it is a male, white, middle class thing to do. It is a very indulgent hobby, time away from home, £s on kit and courses etc.

I personally believe that any such question that can be answered with, "That's not true, I can name one" rather proves the point. I bet you longer serving members can name all the women on here? Try and do that with the other thousands of male members. Same with Sandbenders example, he knows a black bushcrafter, but only one.

The three original questions were

• Is bushcrafting a predominantly white activity?
• If it is does this matter?
• If it does matter what might be done about it?

so the answers must be

• Yes
• Yes
• Hmm, complex. Surely though, we must try.

The reason The Black Farmer is so interesting is because he is able to use his position to encourage other black people to become farmers by example. My family are farmers, 2 uncles, 3 cousins, grandfather and I was press ganged into the Young Farmers, (which had unexpected benefits) I live in a rural area now, but I don't now, or ever have known a black farmer! I think that all areas, groups, hobbies, forums, teams, whatever, all benefit from being accessible and open to a variety of people.

While we are on the subject, we should face up to the fact that Bushcraft folk are "of a type", it would be naive to pretend otherwise! It's all about fitting into groups, or 'Communities of practice' as Lave and Wenger would have said.

An interesting discussion here.