Quackery or the real deal?

[mousey]

I have absolutley no medical knowledge, I'm not a dietition, and have no knowledge of 'alternative' treatments. I would like to belive that 'modern' medical practices work all the time with no side effects but clearly they don't. I would love to believe herbal remedies would work all the time but clearly they don't [or can't be sceintifically proven]

I do belive that whatever ilnessness people may get their bodies need to be in the best position possible to fight it. Therefore I am a great believer in eating healthily and excersing. I have had periods in life where I've sat about eating crisps, smoking, drinking etc and had a cold last 3-4 weeks. I've had periods in life when I've eaten all the fresh fruit n veg I could want excersied regularly and either not had colds or only lasted a day or two.

A quick anecdote if I may - I had a friend who was involved in a motorcycle accident, he was in a coma for 3 weeks, everyone was surprised when he woke up. All the professional/medical types and general everyone said he'd never walk again. But he did. Many people believed the only reason he survived was because of how fit, healthy and strong he was [and still is - took awhile to get there though]. It never hurts to have a strong possitive attitude, to be healthy and to believe in something.

Although having said all this IF I ever get a serious ilness I'm going straight to the doctor, I may keep an open mind on other treatments - but I'm usually a little pessamistic about health care/providers in general be that mainstream or not.

 

[Hoodoo]

I like drugs myself. Wine and bourbon especially.

Sometimes having a "healthy body" is over rated. Some, for instance, have speculated that Crohn's disease and similar problems are caused by a geared up but apparently bored immune system. Why is the immune system bored? Because it has no intestinal roundworms or other parasites to fight and so it turns its mighty power on attacking the body. IIRC, one study in Sweden(?) showed 5 out of 7 people being cured when given an enema containing rather benign intestinal roundworms. This is a reference from Wikipedia but not to the original article. I don't have that handy at that moment.

^ Moises Velasquez-Manoff (June 29, 2008). "The Worm Turns". The New York Times.

 

[blacktimberwolf]

I like drugs myself. Wine and bourbon especially.

Sometimes having a "healthy body" is over rated. Some, for instance, have speculated that Crohn's disease and similar problems are caused by a geared up but apparently bored immune system. Why is the immune system bored? Because it has no intestinal roundworms or other parasites to fight and so it turns its mighty power on attacking the body. IIRC, one study in Sweden(?) showed 5 out of 7 people being cured when given an enema containing rather benign intestinal roundworms. .

My dog has intestinal roundworms at the moment & I'm planning to worm him tommorrow but I'll gladly postpone the worming if you'd like me to send to you some free fresh larvae, should you wish to self innoculate.

 

[Hoodoo]

My dog has intestinal roundworms at the moment & I'm planning to worm him tommorrow but I'll be glad to postpone the worming if you'd like me to send to you some free fresh larvae, should you wish to self innoculate.

Typical response of an ignorant person. They also gave the horse laugh at the doctors who said ulcers could be cured with antibiotics. Of course later they gave the same doctors the Nobel Prize.

 

[ex-member BareThrills]

Typical response of an ignorant person. They also gave the horse laugh at the doctors who said ulcers could be cured with antibiotics. Of course later they gave the same doctors the the Nobel Prize.

I think the comment was made with the intent of being funny not ignorant. I think people need to remember we're all on the same side but differ in our opinions.

 

[blacktimberwolf]

I think there is some credence in holistic medicine.

 

[Andy BB]

On a slightly lighter note, anyone read the old vet books - subsequently made into TV series? THe books were really funny, but one passage sticks in my mind. The vet was commenting on the children of the local knacker,, who were often to be found paddling happily in the associated guts and gore of slaughtered animals, most of them with various unpleasant diseases (healthy animals going to market or the slaughterhouse for human consumption). He commented that they never had a days illness in their lives, and wondered if the exposure to all the nasties strengthened their immune systems.

 

[Hoodoo]

I think the comment was made with the intent of being funny not ignorant. I think people need to remember we're all on the same side but differ in our opinions.

I didn't see a smiley at the end of that comment but rolled eyes, so I disagree about the intent.

 

[ProjeKtWEREWOLF]

I think there is some credence in holistic medicine.

Well, 'holistic' is a buzzword in the NHS too at the moment. All it means is to that we treat the body, the mind and the spirit (religious or not). It's a lovely theory which in practice is nonsense really.

As for 'holistic medicine', I'm a serious sceptic. I want hard evidence with double blind trials. Anecdotal evidence won't cut it for me. I want testable and repeatable results.

 

[Andy BB]

Actually, I found your response offensive Hoodoo, not the original comment, which was clearly intended to be humorous.

Maybe a case of two countries separated by a single language ?

Chill, bro

(thats a smilie, not a roll-eyes by the way.....)

 

[Andy BB]

Well, 'holistic' is a buzzword in the NHS too at the moment. All it means is to that we treat the body, the mind and the spirit (religious or not). It's a lovely theory which in practice is nonsense really.

As for 'holistic medicine', I'm a serious sceptic. I want hard evidence with double blind trials. Anecdotal evidence won't cut it for me. I want testable and repeatable results.

Actually, the "mind" element is an interesting area. Reading up on the effect of placebos reveals some fascinating issues about how much impact the mind actually plays in recovery times and success rates.

 

[Hoodoo]

Actually, I found your response offensive Hoodoo, not the original comment, which was clearly intended to be humorous.

Maybe a case of two countries separated by a single language ?

Chill, bro

(thats a smilie, not a roll-eyes by the way.....)

I think it would have been offensive if I had said stupid instead of ignorant. Who is not ignorant of something? Admitting it is the first step in learning.

 

[blacktimberwolf]

I didn't see a smiley at the end of that comment but rolled eyes, so I disagree about the intent.

Sorry, should have put a smiley so those who arn't ignorant, realised my comment was in jest.

 

[Toddy]

I had surgery yesterday. An hour in the operating theatre.
Nothing major, but it was a horrible lumpy scar in a damned awkward place on my ear.....response to an insect bite on a dig in a bog and it was swollen and sore.

I trust that surgeon; I trust his training, his experience and his own best intent to do a good job.

An acquaintance not so long ago said to me, "Oh we can reduce that with no problem , essential oils dissolve scar tissue."

Now I use essential oils; I find them both useful and effective, in some instances, but for this there was no oily cure.

The problem is that a little knowledge does not convey competancy, nor does it compete or compare with years of medical training, or practiced skill. Reading something on the internet does not mean it's any more reliable than gossip.
Always look for the agenda behind the propaganda.

The acqaintance is horrified that I was prepared to endure surgery and potentially another one for a tiny skin graft; I'm horrified that she's running around telling folks that people like Simon Weston should just have been slathered in lavender oil !

As an aside, the lump was apparantly, "The most interesting one this month", is well and truly cut out and off for biopsy; the ear is sore, I have stitches and weird padding/gel patch stuff, but I usually heal well, so it's all proceeding as expected Feels totally weird not wearing earrings/studs though

cheers,
Toddy

 

[Andy BB]

I think it would have been offensive if I had said stupid instead of ignorant. Who is not ignorant of something? Admitting it is the first step in learning.

A bit of advice, Hoodoo.

When you're in a hole - stop digging

 

[JohnC]

Regarding placebos, all substances have a "placebo effect", it's in three parts, the actual effect of the substance on the body, the persons view/belief of the effect of the substance on the body and then the course of the illness/condition itself. Sometimes people can strongly effect the perceived outcome of treatments, positively or negatively..

 

[Hoodoo]

Sorry, should have put a smiley so those who arn't ignorant, realised my comment was in jest.

Sarcasm can be humorous but it is still sarcasm.

 

[wattsy]

On a slightly lighter note, anyone read the old vet books - subsequently made into TV series? THe books were really funny, but one passage sticks in my mind. The vet was commenting on the children of the local knacker,, who were often to be found paddling happily in the associated guts and gore of slaughtered animals, most of them with various unpleasant diseases (healthy animals going to market or the slaughterhouse for human consumption). He commented that they never had a days illness in their lives, and wondered if the exposure to all the nasties strengthened their immune systems.

I remember that section well usually wheel it out whenever someones telling me I shouldn't eat the slightly dropped-on-the-floor sausage I've just cooked over an open fire. Never had any ill effects either.

Back on the original subject, some 'alternative' medicines have been shown to work in certain situations, but from most of the reading I've done they seem to be treating symptoms not causes. Acupuncture is supposed to be good at relieving pain but it doesn't fix the source of the pain.
The idea that a smell can cure illness is laughable, certain smells can make me feel ill or hungry (bacon), or even alleviate symptons of an illness (Olbas oil works for a blocked nose) but never cure it directly. I suppose feeling better can lead to getting better (you can put up with a cold as long as you can breathe clearly and get to sleep) but there's no independent evidence to suggest that smells cure illness.
The same thing applies with miniscule amounts of a substance in water, pure rot.

 

[ProjeKtWEREWOLF]

Re placebos and the mind thing. I read somewhere that some neuroleptic medications (antipsychotics) work better if the patient genuinely BELIEVES in the efficacy of the drug. This was in some psychiatry journal at work, so I can't cite. Interesting thought though.

 

[Hoodoo]

A bit of advice, Hoodoo.

When you're in a hole - stop digging

Sorry, but I'm tired of seeing snide sarcastic remarks in threads supposedly passing as humor. Very subtle but I see it all the time around here. It creates a toxic atmosphere and there has been more than one thread commenting on this. People sniping at each other. Ha ha. Very very funny. And very clever. From now on, I won't reply, I'll just moderate. And I suggest you take your own advice.