Primitive Living

[THOaken]

I think there is a misconception these days that all that is required to live in the wilderness is having the right knowledge. While knowledge is indeed needed, it is not sufficient. There are a lot of environmental and other factors that will kill even the most knowledgeable woodsman. Since we are talking about a realistic scenario, and not a post apocalyptic one, compliance with laws and regulations will be the largest problem, and it is one that can not be circumvented with knowledge. For example, right now in my state the only animals that can be hunter are porcupine, woodchuck and red squirrel. It has been a long time since I've seen one in the woods. Spring Turkey season opens in May, but lasts only a month. Deer season opens in October and lasts for a month and a half. Depending on the exact area where you are hunting, you may be allowed to use a rifle (for deer) or you may be required to use a shotgun. We also have a three week bear hunting season in November. If you do not manage to secure large quantities of food during those periods and store them for the rest of the year, it becomes very difficult. You have to kill a lot of red squirrel to stay alive.

And the big issue is that you may in fact get lucky one year and take two deer and a turkey, store the meat properly, and have food until the next hunting season. However, the following year you may get nothing. Talk to any hunter, getting a kill is no guarantee. Then what? Living alone in the wilderness without a safety net is a huge gamble. Skills help, but a lot of it comes down to luck.

On top of that, we tend to focus on the wrong skills. I don't know a single person who lives in a rural or wilderness environment in the US who starts friction fires, or even knows how to do so. It is a lighter and gasoline from the ATV that gets the job done. There is little room for purity of skill and tradition when feeding yourself depends on what you kill in the next two weeks.

We often look at half told stories and imagine that we can do those same things. Take Dick Proenneke as an example. Most of us think of him as someone who just went into the woods and started living there. That couldn't be further from the truth. He spent years carrying his gear up to the location of his cabin and making preparations. He had savings that he used, he lived in a friend's cabin while building his over the course of two years, and his brother continued to supply him by airplane for the whole duration of his stay. His experience is no less amazing, and he was as skilled as any woodsman I've seen, but he took a realistic approach to the situation.

These are all things that I will and must take in to great consideration. Everything you've mentioned I, more or less, had in my mind as points needed to be planned out. And you're right about the fact that there is little room for purity of skill and tradition. In the end I might actually do this with a partner and have to rely on some modern tools to survive. I might even do a trial run in a cabin somewhere and live for a while like Thoreau, living on the edge of town and have continued access to supplies, help from others, etc. Or, like Llywd wanted, I might have to opt for a community based communal living project as that seems like the healthier and more productive option. All of this will be planned in time.

I appreciate your detailed and insightful response.

 

[boatman]

Fire, shelter, food, you could start tomorrow, in fact you started years ago. The human animal has grown to need fire and always needed shelter and food.
That is all you are living with now. A life in the woods is simply aeshetics and personal choice. The commercial fisherman is a pure hunter-gatherer although they trade for other needs and wants. The crofter and smallholder mostly live the neolithic life in essence. Perhaps you visit Cornwall and see the number of people living part of your dream. Obviously the same is true of many other areas of the country.

 

[milius2]

Hello, there is a reason why people went from hunting and gathering to farming. And that reason is clear. You can barely survive on things hunted these days and it has been that way for ages. If you'd like to live in wild, you should try growing some food. Hunting might be more of a challange thank you think. best of luck and keep us updated.

 

[THOaken]

Hello, there is a reason why people went from hunting and gathering to farming. And that reason is clear. You can barely survive on things hunted these days and it has been that way for ages. If you'd like to live in wild, you should try growing some food. Hunting might be more of a challange thank you think. best of luck and keep us updated.

I'm fully aware of this, Milius2. Mind, there were a great many advantages to the hunter-gatherer lifestyle, but I suppose you're right. Like I said, this may, in the end, be a sort of communal living experiment with neolithic agricultural practices thrown in.

Thanks.

 

[Goatboy]

One thing I'd say about primative living is that you'd have to have a pretty primative landscape. In the UK for instance there is virtually no part of the land that hasn't been transformed and denuded from it's primal state. There are some areas, but they tend to be pretty hostile and unproductive and this is why man has left them alone. So many primative camp sites are found at shorelines and watercourses. And indeed many items are being recovered from areas now under the sea which at one point were productive landscapes, areas like Doggerbank throw up some interesting finds. Modern man would find it very hard with his expectations and lack of old skills to have a fruitfull existance in most of this green desert.
Even animals find things difficult. In a rural setting if you remove the foxes indigenious to the area new ones move into the territory. These new ones struggle to find invertibrates, toads and small game etc that long term living in an area helps them eke out some form of ballanced life. They then tend to become problems as they come into conflict with modern man and his rich centralised resources (that he doesn't want to share).
So no matter how much we prepare ourselves we can not use resources that aren't there. There are similar themes in my post in this thread #73

It's an interesting discussion and it's good to mentally test ourselves before the physical challenge.

GB.

 

[Niels]

Hello, there is a reason why people went from hunting and gathering to farming. And that reason is clear. You can barely survive on things hunted these days and it has been that way for ages. If you'd like to live in wild, you should try growing some food. Hunting might be more of a challange thank you think. best of luck and keep us updated.

Actually, most scientist believe that people turned to farming out of neccesity, rather than voluntarily.

There were very developed cultures and techniques by the late stone-age, and the reason they became farmers is probably more because to many people went to hunting and gathering, and the land couldn't support it.

As you say, nowadays, the places where there aren't many people are also the places were the least food can be found. That's why there aren't many people there.

Good luck with your ambitions THOaken.

 

[Bluezephyr]

. Like I said, this may, in the end, be a sort of communal living experiment with neolithic agricultural practices thrown in.

Thanks.

. Sounds more like a do able idea.

 

[Llwyd]

I think people switch to farming because they discovered beer. Why else would you settle down and eat grains? Only one species does well on grains and that is birds. People got smaller, contracted diseases and suffered from tooth decay as soon as they switched to farming. Or so the skeletons say... Still we live longer now because farming let us invent science a bit later on.

A good mix of everything is the key to happiness, or so I discovered. Nature does not reward specialists. Adaptable generalists are the ones that make it through the winter.

A mix of hunting, scavenging, farming and resupply is the way to go. The main obstacle is the law, the world is set up to make you a criminal if you are anything but a productive consumer that knows your place. It is a little easier over here because there are still places where the law does not tread and nobody really cares what you do.

The next biggest obstacle is personal psychology. Isolation is debilitating for most people. Unless your brain is lacking the need for human companionship section you slowly go a bit crazy and naming your guns. Being walking distance or biking distance from a pub would be a good thing to treat yourself too once a week. I did not take the horse into town but I would bicycle about 10 miles into town on Friday night. Just don't talk about living in a cabin on a lake in the woods because normal people just don't care. Say you are an investment banker or something?

 

[THOaken]

I think people switch to farming because they discovered beer. Why else would you settle down and eat grains? Only one species does well on grains and that is birds. People got smaller, contracted diseases and suffered from tooth decay as soon as they switched to farming. Or so the skeletons say... Still we live longer now because farming let us invent science a bit later on.

A good mix of everything is the key to happiness, or so I discovered. Nature does not reward specialists. Adaptable generalists are the ones that make it through the winter.

A mix of hunting, scavenging, farming and resupply is the way to go. The main obstacle is the law, the world is set up to make you a criminal if you are anything but a productive consumer that knows your place. It is a little easier over here because there are still places where the law does not tread and nobody really cares what you do.

The next biggest obstacle is personal psychology. Isolation is debilitating for most people. Unless your brain is lacking the need for human companionship section you slowly go a bit crazy and naming your guns. Being walking distance or biking distance from a pub would be a good thing to treat yourself too once a week. I did not take the horse into town but I would bicycle about 10 miles into town on Friday night. Just don't talk about living in a cabin on a lake in the woods because normal people just don't care. Say you are an investment banker or something?

Wise words, indeed, Llwyd.

I'll talk about personal psychology in my mindset article. It's fairly obvious that the reason I originally chose to make this a solitary project was because I'm very capable and used to solitary living. I'm absolutely fine with that, to say the least, but if you've read my previous posts you'll understand that I might now aim toward communal living, an idea implanted in my mind thanks to you and a few others.

Thanks again. More updates will come soon.

 

[British Red]

I think people switch to farming because they discovered beer. Why else would you settle down and eat grains? Only one species does well on grains and that is birds. People got smaller, contracted diseases and suffered from tooth decay as soon as they switched to farming. Or so the skeletons say... Still we live longer now because farming let us invent science a bit later on.

A good mix of everything is the key to happiness, or so I discovered. Nature does not reward specialists. Adaptable generalists are the ones that make it through the winter.

A mix of hunting, scavenging, farming and resupply is the way to go. The main obstacle is the law, the world is set up to make you a criminal if you are anything but a productive consumer that knows your place. It is a little easier over here because there are still places where the law does not tread and nobody really cares what you do.

The next biggest obstacle is personal psychology. Isolation is debilitating for most people. Unless your brain is lacking the need for human companionship section you slowly go a bit crazy and naming your guns. Being walking distance or biking distance from a pub would be a good thing to treat yourself too once a week. I did not take the horse into town but I would bicycle about 10 miles into town on Friday night. Just don't talk about living in a cabin on a lake in the woods because normal people just don't care. Say you are an investment banker or something?

Ben and Lee object to the fact that I resemble that remark

As you said yourself, balance in all things!

We aim for a "self sustaining" lifestyle - self sufficiency is impossible unless you plan to mine your own iron ore for your saws and axes and I know just how much wood I need in this country. The idea of not (for example) having a chainsaw to cut it would make a chore measured in days last several months. Wood is a classic example. Without gear, how do you fell it, get it home, split it etc. Heck without at least a horse, just getting it home would be a nightmare!

 

[THOaken]

Lloyd Smith (Llwyd) of Bushcraft UK has written an article for Oakenwise.com.

I’m very appreciative of Lloyd for writing this article for Oakenwise.com. Not only does he describe in great detail his experience with self-reliant living, but dispenses sage advice throughout.

http://www.oakenwise.com/primitive-living/a-year-off-the-grid/

 

[Stringmaker]

Great thread; there is some very interesting and insightful stuff here and I agree with THOaken about Llwyd's writing.

 

[boatman]

During the war my Mother lived in a primitive cottage in Wiltshire with my brother born just after Dad was sent to the Middle East. Water from well, rations supplemented by the garden and her hens. She loved it and always wanted to recreate the experience. Friend of ours spent sixteen years living similarly in Cornwall. Fail to see what is so extraordinary about people doing so. Interesting to read other people's experiences but it is so obviously achievable that if you want to just do it.

 

[Goatboy]

Fail to see what is so extraordinary about people doing so. Interesting to read other people's experiences but it is so obviously achievable that if you want to just do it.

Apart from most of the modern city dwellers would starve within a month. And without the support of the outside world for things like lighting oil/candles, grains , clothes and fabric how many would get on well. You said yourself she had rations which she supplimented.

Total isolated self sufficiency is very hard, even our early ancestors would've traded/raided the neighbours.

 

[rg598]

During the war my Mother lived in a primitive cottage in Wiltshire with my brother born just after Dad was sent to the Middle East. Water from well, rations supplemented by the garden and her hens. She loved it and always wanted to recreate the experience. Friend of ours spent sixteen years living similarly in Cornwall. Fail to see what is so extraordinary about people doing so. Interesting to read other people's experiences but it is so obviously achievable that if you want to just do it.

You are starting out with a lot of resources there. A person can certainly live on a farm with livestock. However I think the OP had a more basic starting point.

 

[Stringmaker]

Total isolated self sufficiency is very hard, even our early ancestors would've traded/raided the neighbours.

Exactly; when survival is at stake then land and livestock were the commodities.

 

[Goatboy]

Exactly; when survival is at stake then land and livestock were the commodities.

It's funny, one of the older chaps who worked with me was a Forester near the Holy Loch during the 60's and 70's. Self sufficiency was rife and one of the smugger foresters who had an extensive garden with lots of lovely veg and fruit was winding up Alex about the fact he didn't garden and only hunted. (This was around the Cuba missile crissis time by the way) The chap was saying that Alex wouldn't be able to feed his family with a balanced diet if everything broke down due to nuclear conflict, where as his family would eat like kings. Alex just leaned across the table and said that when it came to families starving it certainly wouldn't be his as he had the gun and the gardener didn't. (So yes "when survival is at stake then land and livestock were the commodities" and might makes right. He did say it with a smile I'm told. The gardener didn't find it funny though.

 

[Stringmaker]

Hah, good story!

I am in no doubt that what we like to think of as our cultivated modern society is but a veneer.

We would revert to selfish violence and thieving as soon as the lights started to go out; it's no good having any living skills or knowledge unless you can protect your living space/environment. As soon as someone better equipped than you comes along then it's all over.

 

[boatman]

To say that a cottager has many resources is true but then in most prehistoric societies or "primitive" contemporary ones the present generation, are heirs to many resources as well as knowledge of and rights over hunting runs etc. John Seymour in his Fat of the Land writes of the difficulties of starting a self-sufficient smallholding without even a spade.

As to wartime rations, yes they were there in support and were available if you cared to queue having travelled five miles under your own steam to collect them.

 

[Goatboy]

As to wartime rations, yes they were there in support and were available if you cared to queue having travelled five miles under your own steam to collect them.

And you don't think that that's a good use of time and energy? How much of both would you have to expend to make the following from scratch, this doesn't include clothing ration etc: -

Weekly ration for 1 adult

• Bacon & Ham 4 oz
• Meat to the value of 1 shilling and sixpence (around about 1/2 lb minced beef)
• Butter 2 oz
• Cheese 2 oz
• Margarine 4 oz
• Cooking fat 4 oz
• Milk 3 pints
• Sugar 8 oz
• Preserves 1 lb every 2 months
• Tea 2 oz
• Eggs 1 fresh egg per week
• Sweets/Candy 12 oz every 4 weeks