Opinions please; chatter on threads...

[Toddy]

A recent thread (@spader) came to mind on this.

As a Mod I routinely keep an eye on sales threads and 'tidy up' when someone not so much breaks protocol, but posts stuff on the thread that diverts attention from the actual purpose of the thread.

However, once the thread has achieved it's aim, sales/happy customers, etc., then I see no reason to stifle conversation. It's often a good way to find out more about the items for sale, how folks use them, think of them, quality, etc.,

But how does that sit with everyone else ?

M

 

[Scottieoutdoors]

As someone with limited knowledge compared to you gurus I quite like the additional blatherings around some sales. I routinely check the sales and I find I learn things about items or about what items are not capable of doing from the chatter.
Clothing is an interesting one, my height/size often means a lot of the sale stuff isn't my size, but it gives me an avenue to pursue elsewhere...
That being said, that thread you were referring to was unpleasant to see. I've always viewed the forum as a relaxed environment where users were all on the same page and as someone who recently missed an item due to my own very busy schedule and subsequent slow response time I just shrug and say "oh well maybe next time", I'd hate to see the forum become something horrifically formal with feelings of signed contracts and the like....

Whatever you've been doing, just keep doing it, in my opinion anyway...

Edit: maybe individual sellers thoughts per sale?

 

[Buckshot]

I would prefer to start another thread.
Someone coming into a thread with 'sales' in the title only to see a conversation going on might think it's OK to post like that in any sales thread - even one that hasn't concluded the sale.
They might feel annoyed and confused they have been told off when others are OK.
Just my thoughts

Mark

 

[Toddy]

That's my conundrum on it; that we'd started to blether on the thread that had successfully sold both knives on offer.....and then I thought, "but aren't we just kind of de-railing the purpose of the thread ? ", but it was interesting to hear what other folks thought of the knives too.

M

 

[knowledge=gain]

A recent thread (@spader) came to mind on this.

As a Mod I routinely keep an eye on sales threads and 'tidy up' when someone not so much breaks protocol, but posts stuff on the thread that diverts attention from the actual purpose of the thread.

However, once the thread has achieved it's aim, sales/happy customers, etc., then I see no reason to stifle conversation. It's often a good way to find out more about the items for sale, how folks use them, think of them, quality, etc.,

But how does that sit with everyone else ?

M

due to comprehensions and misunderstandings on this site of late and my first time experience whereby this experience did not fit the normal criteria of overall internet purchasing for over fifteen [15] years

i think that sellers should be able to answer questions about the products they sell and be 100% honest and not mislead

like when a genuine question about warranties whether or not they come with the product should be as simple as yes it does come with x amount of warranty or sorry no warranty come with this item

a seller should not direct potential buyers with reasonable queries to google or other search engines for their items of sale as that takes time for the potential buyer to research which is the first potential purchaser to enquire after the post has been up for months and bumped a few times

sellers must not put any item back for sale after they gave payment details to potential buyer for at least 24hours to give potential buyer chance to get back to them in the spirit for all fairness

sellers must not be put items back for sale when they directed a potential buyer to contact manufacturer about warranties or other reasonable queries, sellers should wait a reasonable time for the potential buyer to confirm they have contacted manufacturer and wait a few days for manufacturer to get back to the potential buyer in the spirit of common decency

when there are more than one [1] model being sold of the same and a query is pending via a potential buyer as in what are the differences then the seller directs the potential buyer to google or other search engine should keep all items in that query back until potential buyer has done the research that the seller asks them to do and not sell to someone else unless at least 24hours have past in the spirit of all common reasonableness

just some friendly input from personal experience which has currently put me off from buying anything off of anyone on here and are the likely part reasons why posts are up for months before first potential buyer makes their first move

 

[Kadushu]

Bleedin' 'eck.

 

[John Fenna]

Ah Toddy ..
A tough call but having read this thread I have come to the conclusion that - I have to put a member of this site on the "ignore" list ... the first for a long time ....

 

[Scottieoutdoors]

Couldn't disagree more with one of the above...

My missing out was fair enough:
I contacted someone about a knife I was interested in, I was then offline for a while and then again a couple days later asked for a couple details, my lack of logging in was purely due to my long hours and exhaustion/limited time online and as such I missed out... had that seller held on then brilliant, I'd have a new knife, but equally another buyer might have gone elsewhere and then when I (potentially) pull out of the purchase the seller is there with a product that they want gone that isn't going... so in my opinion, I didn't get it so tough ****....that is that seller's prerogative. In this economic climate, we don't always know what is going on with individual sellers, perhaps they need the money but equally don't want to admit that for fear of being overly bartered with...
Nothing I've bought on here is junk, despite me buying in at the lower end of the market...if you want it, buy it, if you delay be prepared for someone to step in who does want it.

My £0.02

 

[oldtimer]

Why am I reminded of the wise old headteacher who used give the following advice to pupils when they left his school:-
"Whenever you are the new boy anywhere, in the early days, keep your eyes open, your ears open and your mouth shut. "

Whenever you are new on a forum..................

 

[Mesquite]

due to comprehensions and misunderstandings on this site of late and my first time experience whereby this experience did not fit the normal criteria of overall internet purchasing for over fifteen [15] years

i think that sellers should be able to answer questions about the products they sell and be 100% honest and not mislead

like when a genuine question about warranties whether or not they come with the product should be as simple as yes it does come with x amount of warranty or sorry no warranty come with this item

a seller should not direct potential buyers with reasonable queries to google or other search engines for their items of sale as that takes time for the potential buyer to research which is the first potential purchaser to enquire after the post has been up for months and bumped a few times

sellers must not put any item back for sale after they gave payment details to potential buyer for at least 24hours to give potential buyer chance to get back to them in the spirit for all fairness

sellers must not be put items back for sale when they directed a potential buyer to contact manufacturer about warranties or other reasonable queries, sellers should wait a reasonable time for the potential buyer to confirm they have contacted manufacturer and wait a few days for manufacturer to get back to the potential buyer in the spirit of common decency

when there are more than one [1] model being sold of the same and a query is pending via a potential buyer as in what are the differences then the seller directs the potential buyer to google or other search engine should keep all items in that query back until potential buyer has done the research that the seller asks them to do and not sell to someone else unless at leas 24hours have past in the spirit of all common reasonableness

just some friendly input from personal experience which has currently put me off from buying anything off of anyone on here and are the likely part reasons why posts are up for months before first potential buyer makes their first move

Internet sales are totally different to someone selling a secondhand or unused item on a forum.

Forum sales aren't governed by any legislation unless the seller is acting fraudulently and doesn't deliver the goods and retains the money paid for it. They're based on an understanding that they're a private sale between two parties. End of the day, as Mary pointed out, the seller is allowed to sell to whomever they want and refuse to sell to someone else without having to explain themselves.

There's been plenty of times when I wanted something for sale on here and for whatever reason I couldn't pay for it right away. I've always approached the seller and asked if they'd mind holding it for me for a few days until I could sort my finances out. Sometimes they were willing to accomadate my request and I was appreciative they were willing to do that. Other times they wouldn't as they might loose a potential sale. I never complained and I understood and accepted that.

There's also the saying on here if you snooze, you lose so dithering around asking loads of questions etc can let another buyer slip in and grab the item. This has also happened to me and others on here and not one person has ever complained other than to lament their lack of alacrity in saying they'll buy the item.

+++++++++++++++​

@Toddy, I'm personally with Buckshot on this in having another thread for discussions about an item rather than in the sales thread. Reason being folks may miss what's being said because they didn't look at it as it's a sales thread rather than a discussion thread.

 

[Toddy]

I think that on the whole we seem to be of the mind that though we like finding out more, a clean, straightforward and clutter free, sales thread is the way to go.

Might be worth the occasional parallel thread on an item though.....or maybe ask the buyer to come back and post another one ?
Then again, that can get messy with links back and forth, etc.,

I think that's why I didn't mind when the sales had gone through that folks chattered on the thread, but that just leads to precedence and confusion.

 

[Broch]

I think that the sales threads work just fine the way they are to be honest. It is rare that a thread carries on after the sale is complete so, although a preference for a discussion thread may be stated, I wouldn't feel it necessary to insist on it.

I have once questioned a sales thread when I thought the item could not be legally sold in the UK - I still maintain that it is up to the seller to determine the legallity of any item prior to putting it up for sale on the forum but, as it was a moderator selling, I was overruled

 

[Kadushu]

I don't think post sale chatter is bad but there's logic to keeping the sales area to just sales.

 

[Toddy]

I realised that there's another strand to my thinking on this.
British Blades was really strict about sales threads, and moderated them to that.

Thing is though, BB was a rather specialised sort of forum. It was very social, but the real focus was the knives, the steels, the processes of production, the Makers, etc., and had a membership that was very educated in a rather specialised area.
BB's forceful intent of correct behaviour on sales threads carried over to here. There was often a great deal of money involved in such threads, on the reputation of the forum, etc.,

BushcraftUK doesn't have that specialised membership, we have a wide ranging membership, and yes I know many are as BB folks were, but many others just look on the knives as just another shiny, as a good tool. Reliability not expense/exclusiveness, iimmc ?

I know I certainly couldn't tell you what steel my knives are. Not off the top of my head. I'd need to go and look it up, find threads, etc., to suss it out. I use them, I care for them, I keep them in good order, but they're just good tools to me, not collector's items/drawer queens.

So, since much of BcUK is about conversation, about learning from each other, encouraging others to learn, etc., why do we limit ourselves on an obviously topical thread like a knife sale ? ......well, once the buying/selling bit's by.

 

[knowledge=gain]

I realised that there's another strand to my thinking on this.
British Blades was really strict about sales threads, and moderated them to that.

Thing is though, BB was a rather specialised sort of forum. It was very social, but the real focus was the knives, the steels, the processes of production, the Makers, etc., and had a membership that was very educated in a rather specialised area.
BB's forceful intent of correct behaviour on sales threads carried over to here. There was often a great deal of money involved in such threads, on the reputation of the forum, etc.,

BushcraftUK doesn't have that specialised membership, we have a wide ranging membership, and yes I know many are as BB folks were, but many others just look on the knives as just another shiny, as a good tool. Reliability not expense/exclusiveness, iimmc ?

I know I certainly couldn't tell you what steel my knives are. Not off the top of my head. I'd need to go and look it up, find threads, etc., to suss it out. I use them, I care for them, I keep them in good order, but they're just good tools to me, not collector's items/drawer queens.

So, since much of BcUK is about conversation, about learning from each other, encouraging others to learn, etc., why do we limit ourselves on an obviously topical thread like a knife sale ? ......well, once the buying/selling bit's by.

perhaps a dedicated faq part in the sales section can be for the chat and knowledge for typical items for sale chat for the relevant questions that do arise for warranties kind of steel suitableness for batoning or other than blades and-such what are the rated value on sleeping-bags and-such

then sellers can link to relevant thread in their sale post for said item/s so that prospecting buyers can check out of need be of such knowledge

 

[Stew]

I realised that there's another strand to my thinking on this.
British Blades was really strict about sales threads, and moderated them to that.

Thing is though, BB was a rather specialised sort of forum. It was very social, but the real focus was the knives, the steels, the processes of production, the Makers, etc., and had a membership that was very educated in a rather specialised area.
BB's forceful intent of correct behaviour on sales threads carried over to here. There was often a great deal of money involved in such threads, on the reputation of the forum, etc.,

BushcraftUK doesn't have that specialised membership, we have a wide ranging membership, and yes I know many are as BB folks were, but many others just look on the knives as just another shiny, as a good tool. Reliability not expense/exclusiveness, iimmc ?

I know I certainly couldn't tell you what steel my knives are. Not off the top of my head. I'd need to go and look it up, find threads, etc., to suss it out. I use them, I care for them, I keep them in good order, but they're just good tools to me, not collector's items/drawer queens.

So, since much of BcUK is about conversation, about learning from each other, encouraging others to learn, etc., why do we limit ourselves on an obviously topical thread like a knife sale ? ......well, once the buying/selling bit's by.

One of the things that differed with BB was a ‘bump throttle’. If I remember correctly it was set as a week until the seller could post in the thread again to bump it back up - we used to have a lot of people just using the forum to sell and also continually bumping their sales threads.

No one else could post in sales threads. At first I wasn’t too sure but actually it worked really well. No out the front nastiness to worry about! No thread drift, etc.

I think it was also limited to 10 active sales threads at a time to limit the dealers and flippers.

 

[Stew]

As to your original question, on reflection I think Buckshot is right.

 

[Toddy]

@Stew I think you have the right of it. We need some kind known structure to them, and it does seem both easiest to 'accept' all round as well as to moderate.

I think that @knowledge=gain and the faq idea might well have some play in it though.
Starting threads on the topic, while there's an active sales thread though.....
I think it'd be better if the thread waited until the sales thread was finished, but how else do folks learn ? ask relevant and timely questions ?

M

 

[nigelp]

Ah Toddy ..
A tough call but having read this thread I have come to the conclusion that - I have to put a member of this site on the "ignore" list ... the first for a long time ....

I’ve already done that!

 

[knowledge=gain]

how else do folks learn ? ask relevant and timely questions ?

same principle for a purchaser for asking relevant questions to the seller about the items on sale to see if they are the correct fit for the purchaser or could result in a purchase in error or no sale at all

which is more pertinent as one can not physically see or touch the items for sale like in a second-hand shop

we all know for the most part sellers give anywhere between a brief or full description with photographs yet that is not the same as being able to view in the flesh