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dewi

Full Member
May 26, 2015
2,647
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Cheshire
Well obviously given my medical history, I have an aversion to sleeping in a coffin... I can't see it marrying with me somehow.

What is wrong with setting up the tents?

I know it'll take time and all the rest of it... but a good nights sleep pays off the following day.

Plus, I'm going to need somewhere to park my snow mobile :D
 

Dave

Hill Dweller
Sep 17, 2003
6,019
9
Brigantia
Well obviously given my medical history, I have an aversion to sleeping in a coffin... I can't see it marrying with me somehow.

What is wrong with setting up the tents?

I know it'll take time and all the rest of it... but a good nights sleep pays off the following day.

Plus, I'm going to need somewhere to park my snow mobile :D

Hey get in the tents if you like. :) Completely up to you....It might seem a bit strange, but its actually great fun sleeping out. And the first night out, you wanna be doing as little as possible.

I'll eat on the bus, have a hot choccy brew, when we arrive, set up my boggan, wrap a tarp around it. Put up my orange luminous flag up, so no-one falls in on me. Stare up at the stars, asleep in five minutes. :)

You'd probably love it Dewi. When I did that course, and everyone was asked at the end, what they liked best, everyone said sleeping out under the conifers! Before the course, Id have felt exactly the same way as you mate.

The quinzes a different story. I didnt like sleeping in that so much...tbh. But others stayed in there for days. I got strep throat after night one..and my lymph nodes were swollen. The air in there must have been really damp. It didnt effect them though, just me with my medical condition.

Were out there to experience new things, but no pressure on anyone.....:) Comforts the main thing for me. :D
 
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Andy BB

Full Member
Apr 19, 2010
3,290
1
Hampshire
I love the bit about "doing as little as possible" as digging out a 3ftx7ftx3ft hole in the snow, collecting a huge bunch of pine boughs, rigging up some sort of snow cover over the hole etc etc. Compared to 10 minutes at most to pitch a tipi!

By all means try out the snow coffin, quinzy etc during your stay - it's all part of the fun. But if it were me, I'd get a safe place (ie hot tent) erected first, so you have somewhere to recover if things don't quite work out as planned!
 

Dave

Hill Dweller
Sep 17, 2003
6,019
9
Brigantia
Doesnt have to be that deep. You can sleep straight under a conifer if you like. We are in Vietas. Which has camping grounds, hostel, etc.

And setting up a hot tent in the dark is not a good idea, neither is firewood collection, or using sharps. You dont need pine boughs either. And as youve already said, you shouldnt be taking them.
And propping up your anorak over your face with a cople of poles is not a task. Neither is digging a shallow hole. Ten minutes at the most.
Im aware of my limitations out there thanks.

If people want to sleep in tents they can do. Im not.

People's opinions come from their own experiences.........If youve got a cautionary tale to tell, why not share it? :) All info is helpful....
 
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Dave

Hill Dweller
Sep 17, 2003
6,019
9
Brigantia
If its possible, I want to set up the snowtrekker Ash and I are sharing with a cold well, just like this one:


<br>[video=youtube;o5ILMmfY0LY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5ILMmfY0LY&amp;list=PLpvO Zws3v-A7ddikcs6lpE2u9CUte_Chu&amp;index= 7[/video]
 

SGL70

Full Member
Dec 1, 2014
613
124
Luleå, Sweden
I'm in, on my travels around the WWW today I found out that Kiruna means Ptamargon, somehow translated from Sammi, never seen that before ??

Kiruna is an adaptation of the Saami 'Giron'....

Let me know if you would like me to call Tomas.

Greger
 
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bopdude

Full Member
Feb 19, 2013
3,000
215
58
Stockton on Tees
Yes please, still try and get Thomas on board Greger :)

Ad for cold wells Dave, I was going to ask about that, I've seen vids of them dug under the stove, the stove being on wooden skids traversing the pit, it saves space, apparently ?
 

Dave

Hill Dweller
Sep 17, 2003
6,019
9
Brigantia
Yeh, Im not sure of the reason for that Al, think thats if you cannot get down to the ground maybe?

You can do the same thing in a Tipi Al, just peg it out, then dig a line to the middle, and have a raised sleeping platform on either side.

Its just finding the right ground.


Greger, can you direct us to a link for bus timetables leaving Kiruna on the morning of the 24th January?

Ive found this site: https://www.rome2rio.com/s/Kiruna/Porjus

Where it looks like its going to be cheaper, and a bit quicker on the train from Kiruna to Gallivare, then change at Gallivare, to a bus to get to Porjus.

Or just get a bus from Kiruna to Gallivare, then from there change and get a bus to Porjus.

But where would Tomas want to meet us? Gallivare or Porjus?

I've had a look and cannot find any timetables, telling us the earliest time that the buses and trains set off from Kiruna?

Thankyou.
 
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dewi

Full Member
May 26, 2015
2,647
12
Cheshire
I'll sleep beneath a tree, not a problem, but given the choice between a tent with a stove or wrapping up beneath a tree.. guess which one I'm picking? :D

As far as getting the stove going... pre-prepared kindling and some chopped wood packed away neatly in my pack should serve me well. Tin of beans and a coffee, I'm good for the night!
 

Andy BB

Full Member
Apr 19, 2010
3,290
1
Hampshire
Sorry Dave, wasn't trying to ruffle feathers or cast aspersions on your Arctic expertise. My comments were based on the snow coffin Uncle Ray Mears created in that video, which would certainly take more than 10 minutes to build! And the pine boughs are an essential part of that build, to provide floor insulation below your sleeping bag, the thicker the better. I'm not convinced even my Exped down 9LW would provide sufficient insulation in those conditions. And as he points out, it needs to be wide enough to stop your bag rubbing against the sides as you sleep. In a quinzy, you're normally sleeping on a shelf with a cold sink below you, a roof above you, relatively draft-free and hopefully with a candle or two to keep the temperature just a few degrees blow zero centigrade . In the snow coffin, you're actually sleeping in the cold sink!

And its the temperature that is my concern here. Last November, Jokmokk temp projections were between -10 to -14C. Yet i met temps in Jokkmokk that reached -24C even at 10pm in the city and considerably lower than that in the forests north of Jokkmokk where I was camping, along with considerable snowfall. Without a fall-back option like say a car or hot-tent, a snow coffin could become a literal one.

I disagree that putting up a tipi in the dark is dangerous. A decent head torch makes life very straight-forward, and a ten-minute job single-handed, even on my 8-man. (maybe add a few minutes to stomp down the snow first). That gets you out of the wind and snow immediately. Even if you don't have firewood for the first night for the wood stove, liquid fuel and/or alcohol stoves will raise the internal temperature quickly to above freezing (as long as you have adequate ventilation in the tent). Come daylight, you can get set up properly, get firewood etc.

I'm not saying don't try out quinzys, snow-scrapes etc. In fact I actively encourage it. After all, why go to the Arctic if you're not going to try out these things. its the whole point of the trip! However, I'd politely suggest getting settled in first, rather than planning on relying on a snow-scrape as your primary option on the first night of the adventure. What happens if the temperature suddenly plummets, and you end up wet and on the verge of hypothermia. What then? After two to three minutes without my gloves on at around -15C, I could no longer operate a tent zip effectively. Add another 10-15C of chill to that temp, and your hands become useless, and your reasoning ability plummets. You are physically incapable of lighting match, ferro rod or a lighter, or firing up a stove. You are now in what scuba instructors love to refer to as the "vortex of death"....
 

Dave

Hill Dweller
Sep 17, 2003
6,019
9
Brigantia
At the risk of :deadhorse: I'll just say If people want to sleep in tents they will do. And on the first night I wont be setting my tent up, I'll be sleeping outside, not on pine boughs as I have done before, and I'll be fine, thankyou Andy. I'll send you a piccie. :)
I wont be setting up my snowtrekker in the dark. I have set up Tipis in the dark at -20 as you mention.
My equipment can pretty easily handle the temperatures you mention.
If I thought anyone else who wanted to sleep out was not suitably equipped, I'd tell them.

[Granted on courses, you would have an instructor coming around maybe a few times a night, just to check on the inhabitants. Which wont be possible here.]

[Believe me, sleeping in a tent with Dewie with snoring that would scare off a Yeti, or start an avalanche, you would run screaming out of the tent and be lying next to me, in about thirty seconds flat. Besides hes having beans and I havent brought a gas mask.]
 
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TinkyPete

Full Member
Sep 4, 2009
1,966
191
uk mainly in the Midlands though
I am making a Harlton Hacienda which is based of the Mors super shelter but easier to carry, sheet of polythene, a sheet of parachute silk and a space blanket a couple of pine cones and some cordage. I am going to be making and folding it here and going to try it out for a night sleep at the least when out there quite light and even if it gets destroyed the only thing I need to bring back is the parachute silk and start again. I will also take a reusable and SOL survival blanket so if the cheep one has ripped I can replace it when out there when I first unpack it :)
 

Dave

Hill Dweller
Sep 17, 2003
6,019
9
Brigantia
That does sound cool, be interesting to see that go up. :) Ive got one of those orange sol blankets as well.
 

bopdude

Full Member
Feb 19, 2013
3,000
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Stockton on Tees
Calm down people, how we sleep on the first night up the lake will be determined a lot by the time of day we get there, my Tipi goes up in minutes and if need be can house the group for the night, or those that want to :D might be snug ( sorry Pete ) we still have no definite travel itinerary, just a rough plan to leave Kiruna on the morning of the 24th, that still leaves over 200KM of travel :( the company I emailed has replied and is a no go :( Greger is doing what he can regards trying to find transport, I'll carry on as well, gives me something to do :)
 

Dave

Hill Dweller
Sep 17, 2003
6,019
9
Brigantia
Mehhh...nobodys falling out, Andys just erring on the side of caution, as safety is paramount, and it is a potentially very dangerous enviroment. Fairplay.

thats not been drilled into anyone at any point.
But everyone should be looking inside themselves and having a serious word with themselves, thinking right, this really is a very dangerous enviroment, and I need to be able to rely on those around me, and I need to focus on having my wits about me at all times.

And have fun of course.
 
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bopdude

Full Member
Feb 19, 2013
3,000
215
58
Stockton on Tees
Noted, and been on my mind since day 1 :) I'm under no illusions, it will be harder than anything I've done previously, no mistake, but, with the right kit and frame of mind, as well as the right people it will be the trip of a lifetime :)

All comments taken on board :)
 

Dave

Hill Dweller
Sep 17, 2003
6,019
9
Brigantia
Noted, and been on my mind since day 1 :) I'm under no illusions, it will be harder than anything I've done previously, no mistake, but, with the right kit and frame of mind, as well as the right people it will be the trip of a lifetime :)

All comments taken on board :)


We have got a really good group together in my opinion. All top blokes. :D
 

Andy BB

Full Member
Apr 19, 2010
3,290
1
Hampshire
Mehhh...nobodys falling out, Andys just erring on the side of caution, as safety is paramount, and it is a potentially very dangerous enviroment. Fairplay.

thats not been drilled into anyone at any point.
But everyone should be looking inside themselves and having a serious word with themselves, thinking right, this really is a very dangerous enviroment, and I need to be able to rely on those around me, and I need to focus on having my wits about me at all times.

And have fun of course.

Cheers Dave - agree of course and look forward to seeing the pic!
 

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