Offensive Weapons Act 2019: surrender and compensation scheme. December 2020 - March 2021

[Paul_B]

A mate bought a kukri in Nepal I think complete with display stand. Is that illegal now? I doubt it's sharp as its not for use just display. It was a locally made one so would have been a capable tool.

I have no idea what the law is but often a set if decisions have to be made by someone. If that's not an expert then you might not get a good set of decisions. You still have to live with the law though. I doubt anyone involved was trying to set out a dodgy set of legal exclusions. That being said they would never please everyone with such a control anyway.

 

[Broch]

A mate bought a kukri in Nepal I think complete with display stand. Is that illegal now? I doubt it's sharp as its not for use just display. It was a locally made one so would have been a capable tool.

I have no idea what the law is but often a set if decisions have to be made by someone. If that's not an expert then you might not get a good set of decisions. You still have to live with the law though. I doubt anyone involved was trying to set out a dodgy set of legal exclusions. That being said they would never please everyone with such a control anyway.

Kukri are not listed as banned/illegal blades.

Honestly, the text and lists are not that long and I urge people to read it rather than start posts that could lead to misunderstanding and rumour.

Not getting at you Paul, just in general, if people have genuine interest, it's worth reading the text for yourselves rather than accept other people's interpretations.

 

[Paul_B]

TBH the reason I don't look into the law further because I'm not a big owner or carrier of knives. When I do carry a knife I'm usually away from places there police would go or I've got them packed away out of sight. I also only buy knives from outdoor shops of a type that is either non locking or locking/non folding. For those three types of knives they're either at home or being carried for a purpose. When carried they're stored out of sight and only brought out to be used which means justified use.

That may be naive about the law but among other things I do not fit into any profiles of people who commit knife crimes I reckon. I'm unlikely to be stopped by police. Happened twice when I was one day late with VED and when there was a December drink driving/VOSA/ customs and excise push to catch people. The last was with a dull headlight and technically not a good stop.

My point being I consider the risks of getting caught, losing a knife and getting a charge versus my need to have a knife. If I'm cutting up a chorizo on the side of a Lakeland fell at lunchtime with my opinel when I get challenged then I'm probably unlucky. For me knives are tools that I need or I don't. If I don't then a knife isn't carried. I also do not own unusual knives. It's unlikely they'd ban opinels I reckon. If in wrong please let me know.

 

[Broch]

Well, if your Opinel still has a locking blade (i.e. the rotating bit) then it's classified as a knife that you need good reason to carry. You can cut a chorizo with a folding blade knife that doesn't lock, so, do you have good reason?

But you've made my point really. People are happy to be ignorant of the laws until the law catches them out but they're also happy to talk about it without studying it which leads to confusion and misunderstanding and a Chinese whisper process of misinformation.

The list is only a few pages long and takes two minutes to read; anyone who carries a knife regularly should read it IMO

 

[Stew]

Yep, why single out questioning about a kukhri? What’s the prompt that led you to think it was now illegal?

 

[neoaliphant]

Strange to think how times have changed, when I was at school boys regularly had SAK, but often flick knives, jack knives, butterfly knives, when I was 11 wed through imported shuriken in the school yard against bits of wood ( teenage mutant ninja turtles all the rage then). Also im pretty sure the cadets carried round their cadet rifles.

 

[Wildgoose]

Having read the legislation a few times I’d say in the main most people will not be effected.
the main change is that certain weapons (note weapons not tools) are no longer legal to possess full stop, whereas previously they could be possessed on private property. So for me a cheap butterfly knife from Spain and a old extendable baton met the dremel and were disposed of.

 

[slowworm]

Has anyone read the BASC submission to parliament when the bill was being debated. Mildly amusing in a sad way but perhaps useful to understand the list.

10.1) Reference is made to the Offensive Weapons Order 1988. This piece of legislation is nearly 30 years old. BASC asserts that it is conceptually flawed, as its basis was simply the wholesale adoption of the sales catalogue of a now defunct company from Sussex, called "Battle Orders". No regard was given to the actual capability or potential for criminal use of the weapons in that catalogue.

10.2) many items were simply prohibited because somebody did not like the idea of them, i.e. no evidence base. Some examples follow.

· Some of the prohibited martial arts weapons – the kusari gama - are not only obscure but unless used by a highly proficient person, more dangerous to the user than any potential victim.

 

[C_Claycomb]

I remember the Battle Orders catalogue. I believe that businesses like that, that profit from selling horrible quality, weapon-esque implements to the young, dumb and showy have done us all a grave disservice over the years. A few years ago I was at the Shooting Show at the NEC and while Alan Wood had a stand, and Emberleaf, but there was another stand loaded with horrible movie fantasy blades, one of which I recognised from a police photo as being the same model was used to kill Stefan Appleton in London, an incident that sparked the "Zombie knives" ban, and Chinese "tactical" folders, 2 for £5, full of liner locks with tanto points and double guards.

 

[neoaliphant]

At the local car boot sale there was a stand that had cheap crossbows, cheap katanas and wide range of knives I could only describe as spikey, looked like klingon and rambo knives combined....
nothing stopping parents buying for their kids.

 

[Paul_B]

Yep, why single out questioning about a kukhri? What’s the prompt that led you to think it was now illegal?

I think there was a comment about curved knives marketed as zombie knives that got me thinking about it. Years ago when I first heard the phrase zombie knife I googled it and one image was of a kukri shaped knife with day glow paracord wrapped around the handle.

Whilst some of the knives in the images I saw were outright stupid with weird shapes and odd cutouts, there were a few that had recognisable knife shapes like Kukri, parang, etc. Just they had bright cord on the handles or similar that really doesn't affect its use.

It probably makes sense to a knife manufacturer making cheap machetes for example to simply decorate it with coloured cord or other then slap a bigger markup on it with the tag zombie knife. I'm sure most of those sorts of knives aren't the b ones used to do harm anyway. AIUI the over the top knives were popular for gang videos and status. A cheap kitchen knife is what they'd carry normally I reckon.

 

[Wildgoose]

Yes, it does appear that a lot of manufacturers stamp the same blade shape and add an camo wrap for survival, black for tactical or Day-Glo wrap for zombie killer.
I’ve always seen the cheap multi protrusion zombie knives a bit like the “Spanish armoury” in the Tower of London, for fear and intimidation. That said, I’d rather not face one.

 

[Tengu]

Yes, you might do yourself an injury laughing

 

[Laurentius]

I don't think the law was ever aimed at the humble opinel, in which the lock does not automatically come into play when the blade is opened, and also has the additional safety feature of locking the knife closed. It is a grey area, but for the most part an opinel is one of the least of knives I would worry about and certainly justified for any kind of bushcraft, cookery or gardening. What irks me about the law is that it is now illegal to possess certain items in your own home which are little more than ornaments whilst it would appear that Halberds and maces are not forbidden anywhere, but please don't tell them that else I shall have my logging axe confiscated on the grounds that it is a species of Dane Axe likely to be injurious to monks should I ever make a seafaring trip to Lindisfarne. As for maces, I confess that I am utterly horrified that such item should be there on open display in front of the lawmakers in our mother of Parliaments., heaven forfend! Somebody might pick it up and wave it about in a threatening manner.

 

[FerlasDave]

Phew. I can keep my lightsaber then! My wife is looking for any excuse to get rid of it...

On the other hand I might collect all the knackered circular saw blades I have and hand them over as “shurikens”

 

[Broch]

I don't think the law was ever aimed at the humble opinel, in which the lock does not automatically come into play when the blade is opened, and also has the additional safety feature of locking the knife closed.

Maybe, but the legislation says nothing about automatic locking or manual locking - it just says that the knife must be less than 3" blade, non-locking for it to be a legal carry without requiring the 'good reason' defence.

 

[Paul_B]

Good reason defence is quite possible to achieve with a reasonable law officer. How often do you see those these days?

If they're not around they're not going to catch your opinel or my oyo locking folder bought in the town it's made in. Lovely wooden handle that feels chunky and secure in my hand.

It's the same thing with car, van, truck and bus drivers. They break the law a lot on the roads but nobody there to enforce what legislation we do have. Another offensive weapons law probably won't affect most people here.

 

[C_Claycomb]

Good reason defence is quite possible to achieve with a reasonable law officer. How often do you see those these days?
....

Do you mean, "How often do you see a law officer?" or "How often do you see a reasonable law officer?"
Have you actually tried providing a "good reason" to a policeman when there was any grey area in the reason? Can you provide details?
Were you at the Moot when the knife carry law talk was given? Most of those that were there were at least surprised about what wasn't unequivocal "good reason".

However true it is right now that the chance of most of us having the police visit our homes or stop us on the street, much less in the countryside, is very slim, one should not use this as justification for ignoring the laws. You can certainly make that choice yourself, but advocating it in public isn't good.

 

[Minotaur]

We had a murder here in sleepy Wells, Somerset with a katana(ish)
I expect it appeals to the "impress me mates down the pub"

I get the impression it one of those weapons that appeals to criminals for some reason.
The problem with all of this is it is written to stop us from doing things as law abiding citizens so a criminal can attack us with a 3 foot combat sword.

 

[Minotaur]

However true it is right now that the chance of most of us having the police visit our homes or stop us on the street, much less in the countryside, is very slim, one should not use this as justification for ignoring the laws. You can certainly make that choice yourself, but advocating it in public isn't good.

The problem with the law is if you are a footballer you can pay £50,000 to a lawyer to get out of a speeding ticket. The rest of us pay the ticket. A biker fought a ticket and proved he was right and it cost him £5,000.
My point here is a lot of the cases you hear about on these forums are that you are faced with the decision to go to court or take a caution. If you go to court you could go to jail and as they have mandatory minimums now that is really scary.