New law on knives for under 18?

[masongary44]

This is a really emotive subject for many people. My first thoiught when i heard the news report was that of an article i saw as a kid (15 years ago) discussing crossbows and their legality. To demonstrate their point they used a pair of coke cans, one shot with a crossbow bolt, the other stabbed with a kitchen fork, and the crossbow bolt did only half the damage!!!.

I tend towards the feeling that this is driven, in the main, by media hype, but the fact is that a large number of offences against the public are caused by ill motivated persons with knives. If we take away the knives, then logicaly the violent acts should also deminish, but what heppens next.....

Anyone intending to do harm to another person, be it stabbing them, shooting them of simply bludgeoning to death has no regard for the law to start with. If they can not get hold of a pen / lock / sheath knife, then theres the kitchen knife. If we keep going with this we go right down to blunt instruments, baseball bats, rounders bats, lumps of wood. I would like to see them try and ban metal cuttelery from school canteens, or rounders bats from the playground.... even a sharp pencil could be used to kill!!!!

There will always be those that want to inflict harm on others, and they will always find something with which they can inflict harm.... it seems a shame that so many innocent people, with truly genuine reasons for ownership always seem to be the ones that get punished.......

 

[RobertsonPau]

I agree with the majority of what has been said, I don't want to end up as a criminal because of my hobbies.

I also send my condolencies to the parents and families of all those who have been victims of ataccks in recent months.

As with a lot of issues involving young people parents and society 'expects' 'somebody' to do 'something' about it, be it lack of performance in exams, anti social behaviour, under age sex or whatever. Usually it is teachers that are held responsible, personally I have worked with young people a lot ovwer the last few years and the common denominator in most cases is lack of support from the adults in their home. I honestly believe that parents, and I am one, need to accept the responsibility of educating their offspring in acceptable behaviour and being a responsible member of society, rather than expecting teachers, or the state to do it for them.

Sorry, rant over. I've spent too many years listening to parents and young people pass the blame onto others.

 

[Great Pebble]

:?:

On thinking about it, you really don't want to hear what I think about this matter.

 

[Andy]

thats just asking to be asked.
We're all big girls and boys and can take it you know

 

[Squidders]

Andy, I think Nicks post would be like mine and full of "Moderated - you kiss your mother with that mouth?!?"

Joe

 

[Shing]

I think its wrong to separate knives into kitchen (good) and everything else (evil). Some people may feel its wise to appease legislators by agreeing to label some knives as evil or unnecessary and ban them but that allows them to define what is a "good" knife and what is a "evil" knife, a ridiculos notion as if inanimate objects has some sort of free will. I think WWII has shown how well appeasement works.

As to only having thing we need and banning everything else, we don't need cars that can travel at over the speed limit so we ban sports cars, we don't need to eat fatty foods so ban butter and ice cream, we don't need TV so we'll close done the BBC, we don't need privacy so we put a spy camera in every home in the land and have a secret police force. The difference between free people and the oppressed is free people define thier own needs and wants, the oppressed have it decided for them.

 

[bambodoggy]

Stand by for the next round of media hype about banning knives.....any of you who've read/seen/heard today's new will know a man in North London with mental health problems has just run amuck and stabbed up to 6 people killing one of them!!!!!!

I don't want to say anything more about the incident as my heart goes out to the victims families especially at this time of year but you just know the British media is going to hyjack this!

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-1165068,00.html

 

[Wayne]

I think we all share you sympathy for the relatives of the families of the poor people involved in the sad incident. Possibly another case like Clunes (sp)

I hope the media focusses properly on the poor state of mental health care in this country rather than the fact a knife was used.

 

[falling rain]

http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_p...&a_05=1&a_06=1&a_07=3&a_08=3&a_09=2&x=43&y=23

Take a look at question 2 on this BBC quiz on the law. I got it wrong and put A. Surprisingly the answer was b and remember this is for swiss army knife. Would it be safe to assume that if you were on your way to the woods and could prove you were into Bushcraft that you may be ok. What would a Laplander be classed as. What if you have your Granny B, Knife ,and Laplander altogether in the boot of your car, A laplander could be a vicious weapon when slashed across someones face. 6 months in Jail :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

 

[bambodoggy]

I hope the media focusses properly on the poor state of mental health care in this country rather than the fact a knife was used.

I'd like to think they will as it clearly needs looking at but in the current climate of media anti-knife hype I suspect they won't! We shall see....

 

[Snufkin]

I'd like to think they will as it clearly needs looking at but in the current climate of media anti-knife hype I suspect they won't! We shall see....

Providing useful mental health care facilities would cost hundreds of millions of pounds, a kneejerk tightening of the knife laws would cost considerably less. What do you think the government will do? :?:

 

[BIG-TARGET]

Providing useful mental health care facilities would cost hundreds of millions of pounds, a kneejerk tightening of the knife laws would cost considerably less. What do you think the government will do? :?:

It like blaming flies for garbage :aargh4:

 

[leon-1]

Sorry, I will state that now, I am quite old fashioned, I used to carry a knife to school, I never stabbed or threatened anyone with it, I used it when I went "into the bush" in the countryside around my school, I even got asked if I could use it by the head of RS (Rural Studies) when at school.

The problem is not the law, but society as it is. When I was a kid we did not have ASBO's, we did not need them :

If you behave like an adult, then I will treat you as an Adult

, If I got out of line then I would know about it.

Society has pushed responsibility for thier children away from the family in this country and the problems are getting worse, if only because society has limited what parents and people in authority can do.

We had the cane, the slipper and god knows what else, but even having carried a knife that had a 5" blade at the time no peril ever came to me, the other students or adults at the school.

I think that we need to look at the way we live in this country and make a stand, this is my opinion and not that of the website, just so there can be no confusion.

 

[Great Pebble]

I can remember being stopped by police when about 10 - 12 years old and asked about what I was doing with a catapult. A "Black Widow" type thing that I took everywhere. A little bit of explaining and they let me go, no problems. But, here's the thing. There was a US pilots survival knife stitched across the pocket of the Italian combat jacket which I lived in at the time (I'd seen helo pilots with survival vests and thought it looked cool). The knife wasn't even mentioned, I think it was assumed at the time that every lad carried a knife of some description, especially during summer holidays.

 

[Wayne]

When I was a kid coming back from training i was into martial arts from an early age. i had taken my knife collection to show a friend. I was cycling the 7 miles home and i must have lost the carrier bag containing the knives and my wallet off the back of my bike. 20 minutes after getting home i got a phone call from the police to say the had my wallet. i cycled down to the station and they returned my wallet and carrier bag full of knives without a word.

A few months ago i found a wallet with cash in not much about £5 but it had the lads driving license and student card etc in it. So i went to the same police station. Firstly i had to use a telephone on the door outside to make a call to the main police call centre before i could get them to send an officer to open up. it was about 8:30pm. Then the rather bored looking desk jockey asks why i think they are a lost property office and what i expected them to do about it. :yikes:


Strange world we live in these days.

 

[Gary]

Not strange Wayne SAD and getting SADDER - the more we molly coddle and bow and scrap the less respect people have for themselves and others. Look at the shop keep stabbed over two bottles of booze thats what a life is worth these days.

 

[masongary44]

If the knife law changes for the worst, then Bushcraft would become a very difficault thing to practice. After all, most things require some kind of cutting instrument, and if a swiss army knife is enough to buy you 6 months inside, i can not see that anyone would get away with a billhook or small forrest axe.....

I sometimes wonder how I would defend myself against the law if I had my rucksack searched while walking through a small village (as i often do) when out for a few days with mother nature.... I understand the current state of the law, but i am not sure any justification at the moment would be good enough to passify an over zealous police officer....

I hope I am wrong....

 

[Rob]

I just hope that the police are able to continue to use their discretion in these matters.

Calls for knife laws to be tightened so that the penalty for possesion is the same as with a gun are not sensible. Does that mean that having a knife in your own home would be a gaolable offence?

Legitimate reason in a legitimate setting - works for me. But you will still have to excercise your people skills to keep the policemen on your side if you get stopped and asked.

As sad as it is, and it has been said time and time again. It is the person with the item that does the damage, not the item itself. I seem to recall someone killing themselves with a pencil during an exam many years ago. Dont see the governement banning pencils from schools.

How many people remember either being assaulted by, or assaulting with compasses, rulers etc whilst at school? Get the risk assessment done for that.

 

[bambodoggy]

You're not wrong Gary.....it happened to me, I'm not going into details but as I've said before...trusting that the police and then courts will accept that you do bushcraft is a very unwise thing to do. Those of you whom work in the bushcraft business may be ok as your work is a valid reason for carrying (provided you are at work or directly on your way to or from it) but the rest of us......it's a hobby and that counts for nothing.

Leon, I also carried a knife of some sort as a youngster...usually not more than a lock knife or more usually an ex-army clasp knife and the same as you I never had a problem. Never murdered anyone, never robbed anyone, never threatened anyone....I didn't even gouge my name into school desks or park benches. But when I went to school there was no cane, no slipper and no god knows what else...my parents very rarely smacked me and if they did it tended to be because I was being dangerous rather than just naughty....don't get me wrong, I was frightened of my Dad (in a natural way...not terrified or anything) but they just didn't really do smacking.
Now I'm not anti smacking in anyway and this isn't the place for a smacking discussion but I don't think this has anything to do with the current state of the nation. I was brought up with a lot of love and also an awful lot of freedom, I was allowed to head off in the morning before my parents were up and wasn't ever expected back till tea time, my parents never knew where I was or what I was doing but they knew I understood right from wrong so they let me roam...I'm forever grateful for that. I'm not saying my parents were perfect but I believe they brought me up well and I suspect a lot of you guys and girls think the same of your parents.... the problem is bad parenting in general in this country not a lack of some form of beating. Yes you need to have punishment but to me having my legs slapped was nothing compared to having my clasp knife confiscated or being made to stay home of a beautiful sunny summers day!

From what I saw this morning and last night the news is very much talking about knives once again.

It strikes me that the fact that this man has mental heath problems and that this was even mentioned is quite something....do they think all the other people that do this sort of thing are perfectly sane? Was Michael Ryann a sane man as he stalked Hungerford? Was that chap up in Dunblane sane? Of course not...it's hard for me to imagine a more insane thing to do.....but what changed after those two events......? The mental heath care in this country? No...they made your car a public place so they could search it, they decided that you could carry a penknife but needed just cause for a knitting needle/hat pin etc and then banned all handguns......meanwhile seriously mentally ill people were allowed back into our community without any proper monitoring let alone any support!.....It makes me soooo cross and for some of those patients it must have been very scarey to suddenly be all alone like that.

Better stop there before I go into full on rant mode!!!!

Again, as we discuss this topic our thoughts and sympathy must and I'm sure do stay with the families of the victims this christmas.

 

[bambodoggy]

Rob...we used to take the blades out of pencil sharpeners and use them to split the pencil from the top and then fix the blade in and bind it back together with sellotape....bit like fixing an arrowhead or spear tip... this gave us a great slashing weapon and a lot of us had one of these.... nothing to do with hurting anyone and I can honestly say I don't recall anyone ever getting hurt. They were used for slashing each others pencil cases and school bags to see if we could get all the stuff to fall out.... it wasn't bullying as it happened to everyone equally it was just kids messing about....I don't know why but somehow we ALL knew how far to take it and when to stop.....was lots of fun though Godness knows how many of mine got ruined that way!!! lol