Mother Nature? Oh, please......

[Toddy]

But humanity isn't at a dead end; and there's nothing to say that our sentience will not eventually evolve into either a hive mind (nah, can't see it, we can't even agree on this thread ! ) or into some kind of communal collective that creates an equilibrium compatable with our wants let alone our needs, and the resources and environment of our planet...........of course it could all go to pot with pollution/ nuclear fall out/ inability to get our act together and blast random asteroids away from us............or would that be considered An Act of God ?

M

 

[Toddy]

Everything,............if you wrap it up in christmas paper then you're just an over emotional Anthropomorphist but if you use plain brown paper then you're one of the chosen few who realises that your dog is nothing more than a biological entity made from stardust.

I don't know about that; I saw a dog run into the Co butchers when I was a child, and the glaikit thing ran out with the pack of butchers paper
It knew good things came in that stuff, but hadn't quite the brain power to realise that someone wrapped the good stuff up in it first

M

 

[blacktimberwolf]

But humanity isn't at a dead end; and there's nothing to say that our sentience will not eventually evolve into either a hive mind (nah, can't see it, we can't even agree on this thread ! ) or into some kind of communal collective that creates an equilibrium compatable with our wants let alone our needs, and the resources and environment of our planet...........of course it could all go to pot with pollution/ nuclear fall out/ inability to get our act together and blast random asteroids away from us............or would that be considered An Act of God ?

M

If you want to see our future Toddy just look at how folk react when there's a bread, milk or petrol shortage announced...................I'm not so sure there will be be a lot of warm intellegent co-operation when the worlds resources start to run out.................unless Morgan Freeman is president at the time of course.

 

[woodspirits]

Everything,............if you wrap it up in christmas paper then you're just an over emotional Anthropomorphist but if you use plain brown paper then you're one of the chosen few who realises that your dog is nothing more than a biological entity made from stardust.

phew thats ok then! i thought i was just beeing controversial...

 

[Andy BB]

Thought you'd say that.....see post 57................so if a species becomes endangered through human activity, it's the fault of evolution.?........Pandas have already 'evolved ' & adapted to an enviromental change when they turned from being carnivores into Bamboo eaters which is pretty impressive in evolutionary terms but no species can survive the rapid destruction of it's habitat..........not even man.
I'm sure the millions of people who have died & will continue to die of famine because they couldn't adapt quick enough to the change in their enviroment , will be comforted to learn that have come to an evolutionary dead-end.

Again, you seem to ascribe human emotions and morals to evolution. Evolution doesn't "care" that virtually every living thing on the planet dies from being torn apart by predators or dying of starvation (so much for the "caring" notion of Mother Nature!) All it "cares" about is that the species in question survives to perpetuate its genetic material. Humanity has had an immense impact on planet Earth. Some species adapt and prosper as a result (rats and cockroaches, for example), whilst others don't. Pandas fall into the latter category. Its really as simple as that. To be fair, others have had a greater impact on Earth - the meteor (or super-eruption, whichever it was) that wiped out the dinosaurs - what - 65 million years ago, did much more damage.............

Is that a shame, from a human, moral point of view? No doubt, but it doesn't change the facts.

 

[blacktimberwolf]

But humanity isn't at a dead end;

We see a wall in front of us & step on the accelerator...............I don't think we have much of a future.

 

[Toddy]

You do know that the mammal ancestor that survived when the dinosaurs didn't, and eventually evolved into us, was a wee mouse like creature ? An omnivore they believe

So, even if we do manage to obliterate almost all life on Earth, so long as a few rats survive, life'll simply get on with it..........and ye gods it'll all begin again
Here you go, a wee Triassic mouse...........probably not named Jerry

 

[Andy BB]

You do know that the mammal ancestor that survived when the dinosaurs didn't, and eventually evolved into us, was a wee mouse like creature ? An omnivore they believe

So, even if we do manage to obliterate almost all life on Earth, so long as a few rats survive, life'll simply get on with it..........and ye gods it'll all begin again
Here you go, a wee Triassic mouse...........probably not named Tom

..not when the Sun burns the Earth into an incandescent gas, they won't!

And on that cheery note....

 

[mountainm]

..not when the Sun burns the Earth into an incandescent gas, they won't!

And on that cheery note....

There's a good thread about Bottled beers I started around here somewhere...

 

[British Red]

But humanity isn't at a dead end; and there's nothing to say that our sentience will not eventually evolve into either a hive mind (nah, can't see it, we can't even agree on this thread ! ) or into some kind of communal collective that creates an equilibrium compatable with our wants let alone our needs, and the resources and environment of our planet...........of course it could all go to pot with pollution/ nuclear fall out/ inability to get our act together and blast random asteroids away from us............or would that be considered An Act of God ?

M

Communal collective? <shudder> What an awful thing to wish for


Bring on extinction!

 

[RonW]

Evolution doesn't "care" that virtually every living thing on the planet dies from being torn apart by predators or dying of starvation (so much for the "caring" notion of Mother Nature!) All it "cares" about is that the species in question survives to perpetuate its genetic material.

So you've met Evolution, then?

And in order to either evade the fact that these living creatures starve or get eaten, they evolved! They not only learned to avoid the previously mentioned events, but actually altered their fysical form to some degree as well. So evolution appearantly does care that the several species not only spread their genes, but service, adapt and change in order to maximise their chances.

And no, Mother nature doesn't take care of us; she provides for us. And as long as the inhabitants of the Earth honour that by not taking more than needed, she will continue to do so.... But here is were some evolutionary faults within humans come into play; greed and hunger for power. You don't find those in any other living thing on this planet. Those two faults will be our undoing, unless we evolve and overcome them. So human behaviour is a part of our evolution, too.

 

[Toddy]

..not when the Sun burns the Earth into an incandescent gas, they won't!

And on that cheery note....

Oh, they might.....they'd evolve to suit their environment wonder how far they could go ? or will we ?

M

 

[blacktimberwolf]

Again, you seem to ascribe human emotions and morals to evolution. Evolution doesn't "care" that virtually every living thing on the planet dies from being torn apart by predators or dying of starvation (so much for the "caring" notion of Mother Nature!) All it "cares" about is that the species in question survives to perpetuate its genetic material. Humanity has had an immense impact on planet Earth. Some species adapt and prosper as a result (rats and cockroaches, for example), whilst others don't. Pandas fall into the latter category. Its really as simple as that. To be fair, others have had a greater impact on Earth - the meteor (or super-eruption, whichever it was) that wiped out the dinosaurs - what - 65 million years ago, did much more damage.............

Is that a shame, from a human, moral point of view? No doubt, but it doesn't change the facts.

I'm not at all ascribing emotions or morals to Evolution Andy, merely trying to point out that Humans have a huge responsibility towards the other life forms on this planet since we have aquired the means of their mass destruction. Just passing the buck onto evolution & accepting that our behaviour is just part of a natural process, selecting those species apt to survive & that we should carry on regardless Sounds a bit like defeatism to me as well as shirking off our responsibilities. We can create Gods in our image but not evolution.

 

[Niels]

If anybody doesn't know what anthropomorphism is, just find a woman who owns a horse.

Here there's different words for a human head and an animal head. Also different words for human legs and animal legs. Ofcourse, horses are such noble animals that they must be named with human limb names. And you better not say it wrong or the horse owners get all insulted and what not.

 

[John Fenna]

So you've met Evolution, then?

And in order to either evade the fact that these living creatures starve or get eaten, they evolved! They not only learned to avoid the previously mentioned events, but actually altered their fysical form to some degree as well. So evolution appearantly does care that the several species not only spread their genes, but service, adapt and change in order to maximise their chances.

And no, Mother nature doesn't take care of us; she provides for us. And as long as the inhabitants of the Earth honour that by not taking more than needed, she will continue to do so.... But here is were some evolutionary faults within humans come into play; greed and hunger for power. You don't find those in any other living thing on this planet. Those two faults will be our undoing, unless we evolve and overcome them. So human behaviour is a part of our evolution, too.

Well said that man!

 

[Andy BB]

Oh, they might.....they'd evolve to suit their environment wonder how far they could go ? or will we ?

M

Well, barring unforseen comets etc, we've got 4-odd billion years to evolve sufficiently to avoid getting swallowed by the Sun as it ennters its red giant stage!

 

[Andy BB]

So you've met Evolution, then?

And in order to either evade the fact that these living creatures starve or get eaten, they evolved! They not only learned to avoid the previously mentioned events, but actually altered their fysical form to some degree as well. So evolution appearantly does care that the several species not only spread their genes, but service, adapt and change in order to maximise their chances.

And no, Mother nature doesn't take care of us; she provides for us. And as long as the inhabitants of the Earth honour that by not taking more than needed, she will continue to do so.... But here is were some evolutionary faults within humans come into play; greed and hunger for power. You don't find those in any other living thing on this planet. Those two faults will be our undoing, unless we evolve and overcome them. So human behaviour is a part of our evolution, too.

Sorry, but thats classic anthropomorphism again. Despite the 4 billion years of evolution, pretty much everything alive still dies of starvation or being torn to bits by predators - so much for the "Mother" bit of Mother Nature.. And evolution doesn't "create" faults - mutations occur that may or may not lead to individuals of a species survivng to the next generation. If you must ascribe human emotions to it, you would have to say that humanity has been spectacularly successful, quickly becoming the predominant species on Earth and one of the few species to actually have at least some members die of old age! Clearly greed and lust for power are powerful survival traits! Whether other human abilities such as rationality and intelligence are sufficient to overcome the potential for destruction is another matter.

 

[TurboGirl]

I think you may be assuming that each other's idea of 'Mother' is the same. In a Mother Earth type concept, she's probably as capable of being a bitch from hell to an individual 'child' as some of the human ones who've hit the headlines recently. To me the concept isn't anamorphic but to describe more of an evolutionary ancestory. You may be misunderstanding each others' interpretation of a word and what you'd write into it, possibly

 

[Chiseller]

We exist because ' nature ' allows us to....her and Chuck Norris

 

[woodspirits]

having got this far, you may think that AndyBB's diatribe is nothing more than the opinionated, egotistical drivel of some tw*t on his soapbox having a bad day, who's perhaps been nipped by somebody's beloved lapdog.

well im here to tell you having met Andy on several occasions at North Wood, he is one of the most affable, good humoured and generous blokes you would wish to meet. ... but dont take my word for it ask Tom, or Jerry. ...