Knife grind angles , Preferences & Job rolls ?

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Paddytray

Settler
Jul 11, 2012
887
0
46
basingstoke
I was wondering if there was any preferences in regards to the angles of knife grinds , depth , type and the angles themselves . Also which angles best suit the knifes main function . I've read that 20 degrees makes a good battoning blade and that between 25 and 30 are good for bushcraft blades etc .
is this true and what are you guys and girls favourites with regards to the work you do with them ?
 
Jul 30, 2012
3,570
224
westmidlands
under 10 makes a superb greenwood knife, full flat no secondary, you can slice branches like anything. Just don't try anything hard or youll curl it fairly soon. Sharpening can be a problem.

From what I've read the best bushcraft knives have a convex grind for strength, and thats a secondary bevel, so anything hard a double bevel, or it seems people spend an age sharpening. Tool steel seems the strongest and most ridgid whilst being tough.
 

Paddytray

Settler
Jul 11, 2012
887
0
46
basingstoke
cheers for your reply .
In regards to the greenwood knife what thickness blade would you personally look @ typically 4-6mm ?.
I'm learning so I am working with o1 for its forgiveness .
I'm trying to get an understanding for the function of grind types and the jobs the would typically suit .
I've just found this and wondered on peoples prefences in matching angles to grind type to function .
http://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Detailed-Discussion-on-Knife-Sharpening-Angles-W28C60.aspx
Under 10 Degree Angles
The lowest angles are reserved for edges that are typically cutting softer materials. In this case, the edges are not subject to abuse so the lower angle can be maintained without damage or edge failure. The lowest angles that we typically see are on straight edge razors. These are sharpened to an angle which is roughly 7 to 8 degrees (although the back of the blade is used as a guide so knowing the angle isn’t important and nor is it adjustable). A straight razor has a very delicate edge that is very easy to damage. In proper usage, a straight razor would never see the type of use that would damage the edge.

10 to 17 Degrees Angles
A sharpening angle of 10 to 17 degrees is still quite low for most knives. With a total angle of 20 to 34 degrees, this is still a very fine edge. This edge is typically too weak for any knife that might be used in any type of chopping motion. Also consider that harder steels are also more susceptible to impact damage because they are more brittle. If your knife is used for cutting soft items or slicing meats, this lower angle can hold up and provide a very smooth cutting action.

17 to 22 Degree Angles
A 17 to 20 degree angle covers most kitchen knives. Some knives (typically Japanese manufacturers) will sharpen their knives to roughly 17 degrees. Most western knives are roughly 20 degrees. It is our experience that kitchen knives sharpened to 15 to 20 degrees cut very well and are still durable. These angles are still not highly durable as a total angle under 40 degrees will not respond well to rougher treatment in harder materials.

22 to 30 Degree Angles
In this range, the knife edges are considerably more durable. A pocket knife or a hunting knife will inevitably see abuse not seen by knives meant primarily for slicing or chopping softer materials. While the edge may not ultimately be cut as well (but you may not notice a difference) it will be considerably more durable.

Over 30 Degrees Angles
Any edged tool or knife that is sharpened past 30 degrees will be very durable. Its cutting ability will be noticeably reduced. This durability has an advantage because more force can be used to make the cut. While the majority of knives won’t benefit from this sharpening angle, an edged tool like a machete, cleaver or axe must be durable as the typical cutting action of these tools would damage other edges.
 

Barn Owl

Old Age Punk
Apr 10, 2007
8,245
5
58
Ayrshire
I've just kept with the angles of my 'croc box', 22deg for good slicing, 25 for general use
I hone with the ceramic rods often, just the same as stropping really.
 

Paddytray

Settler
Jul 11, 2012
887
0
46
basingstoke
So by the sounds of it 22_25 make a good slicer . And the higher the angle the more durability.

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Jul 30, 2012
3,570
224
westmidlands
a ten degree angle, 5 each side, and I've given it a rough gestimate, is extremlely sharp. As for thickness of the spine thinner the better as it offers less resistance, but its a trade off against stiffness, whick helps maintain a thin edge, no flexing to fatigue the edge.

Any razor I've seen has a concave grind going to a vanishing edge , and the whole thing must have an angle from edge to spine of only 20 degrees complete, so the edge must be maximum 5 complete depending how far up the concave you measure it,and probably reaching less than one. The idea of razors and scalpels I suppose.

Thinner edges like the samauri sword are sharpened only on one side, which makes them inherantly stronger, and I suppose easier to maintain.
 

ged

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Jul 16, 2009
4,980
14
In the woods if possible.
I was wondering if there was any preferences in regards to the angles of knife grinds , depth , type and the angles themselves . Also which angles best suit the knifes main function . I've read that 20 degrees makes a good battoning blade and that between 25 and 30 are good for bushcraft blades etc .
is this true and what are you guys and girls favourites with regards to the work you do with them ?

Hand tools generally and cutting tools especially are very personal things. I think you should try them for yourself.

You need to think about more than just grind angles, for example I wouldn't normally use the same tools for preparing firewood and preparing food. How and when are you going to sharpen it? I tend to use stainless blades more than anything else, but for hard use like firewood prep I normally stick with good old O1. The knife by the side of the wood-burner is full flat 01 with a small bevel. It only ever sees a steel (which was 25 pence from Oxfam), and that only every few weeks.

My favourites tend to be full flat, sabre or even chisel ground with a tiny bevel. I sharpen as little as possible and usually with a steel (O1) or just a strop or a ceramic hone (D2, RWL34, S30V, VG10, 12C27, ...)

I have a few strongly convex ground blades (like my laminated VG10 F1 which does a lot of firewood prep when I'm on the move), and I like using them, but as knife blades (as opposed to things like parangs and axes) I think the best description I can come up with for them is 'ornery'. I wouldn't want my only knife to have a convex ground blade -- I'd say the same about a scandi (my neck knife is a Swede 10 in 12C27).

Don't go for small sharpening angles (I mean the angle on the very edge, as opposed to the angle on the bulk of the blade) unless you're going to treat the edge very carefully.
 

Paddytray

Settler
Jul 11, 2012
887
0
46
basingstoke
Thanks for your replies people . I am just trying to put together a overall look on knives. types and there grind types and then putting the grind type to its preferred jobs . It's more for learning people's preferences ,favourites and what they use it for . Does that make sense sorry I'm not doing to good a job of explaining myself

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N

Nomad

Guest
But by going higher in angle we lose the cutting abilities

Cutting is essentially separating some of a material from the rest of a material, using a tool with an edge. The suitability of the angle of the grind and the thickness or profile of the blade depends on what you're cutting (its structure and physical properties), and on how much you're cutting.

A 4mm thick 30° scandi ground blade won't chop carrots very well (the cut bit pings away), but a 1mm thick 30° scandi ground blade will chop carrots much better. Both will peel the outer surface just fine. The chopped bit of carrot is quite thick and doesn't flex much, resulting in the thick blade wedging it apart before it can cut, proper. Too much wedging with a thick blade causes the uncut portion of the carrot to snap, and the wedging force makes it ping away. The thin blade can cut it more readily because there is less pushing apart of the rigid carrot structure. When peeling, the rigidity is much reduced because you're taking thin slivers off - either blade can peel because the thinner bit of carrot being removed flexes easily and allows the edge to get in and cut.

Consider: A 4mm thick scandi ground knife might have an angle of 30° and be good for working wood but not be very good at slicing. A 4mm thick full flat ground knife might have a blade profile in the flat grind that's maybe 7°, with a bevel at the edge that's more like 50 or 60°, and that knife will slice much better than the scandi, but not be so good for working wood.
 

Hedgecrafter

Nomad
Feb 23, 2014
306
0
Suffolk
I've never bothered with the numbers as I only free hand sharpen.
Just remember that the lower the angle the sharper the knife, but it will blunt faster and is more prone to chip or roll.

The higher the angle the stronger the edge.

It's totally up to you what angles you want to use. I wouldn't use any guides or references for the numbers as they are far too generalised.

For example.
20 degrees might be the ideal balance of strength and sharpness for a general purpose knife. However... If that knife is made of CMP S30V rather than 420C you could put a much lower angle on the blade and it would still be as strong.

Many people say 17 degrees for kitchen knives.
That's BS.
There are lots of different jobs for knives in the kitchen.
I have one knife for chopping with a high angled edge because it's going to be hitting the hard wooden chopping board. Then I have an almost identical knife that I use for meat but with a much lower angled edge for cutting meat. And I only ever finish it to 400grit to give it a nice toothy edge.
Then I have a peeling knife that will never touch any hard surface so I keep it as sharp as a razor.

If you get too mixed up in the numbers you will loose the understanding of what you are doing.

As for grinds...
Scandinavia grinds are cheap to make and easy to sharpen. That's why they are popular.
Bbt remember that the angle of a scandi is very difficult to change and may be dependant on the thickness of the steel.
Hollow grinds are again cheap to make and allow a recess after the cut so the knife can make shallow cuts very easily. Plus you can sharpen then very quickly as the edge will not thicken up as fast.
Convex grinds are usually the best for most tasks other than fine carving.
Zero grinds are great for slicing but very weak.


One of the best things about a convex grind is that you can quickly get a workable edge on the blade when in the field simply by raising the angle. It can save lots of time and you can do a proper job when you get home.

A Scandinavia grind might be easy to "touch up" but if you have a sizeable chink in the edge it's a hell of a lot of work to get the edge back as you have to remove so much metal.
 

Paddytray

Settler
Jul 11, 2012
887
0
46
basingstoke
Thanks for your reply I think your right I'm focusing on the numbers a bit to much . I have been going with the hight I want the grind and just going for it . I should stick to what works . Lol thanks again everyone for you replies

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For scandi I grind 25 deg (12.5 per side ) this i find a good set and can be used with out a Micro bevel on small blades for carving or with a micro bevel on larger Woodlore sized for more GP use 30 deg (15 per side works well on a thin Leku or my XL Nessmuk for chopping

for Full flat I generally use a 35deg secondary (17.5deg per side) this can make a very sharp skinning knife in High quality stainless 61Rc or even ok on my Military SERE Jungle parang at Deferentially tempered Spring steel 55 RC it also depends on how you grind the rest of the blade obviously the Primary bevel on the skinner is taken to a thin 0.5mm or less edge before the secondary added where as the Parang is a 2mm edge and the shoulders convexed back etc Good heat treatment means you can use a blade thinner and harder than a poor HT of the same steel
 

Big Stu 12

Bushcrafter through and through
Jan 7, 2012
6,028
4
Ipswich
I tend to go for an alround 22ish..... as it seem's to cover most of the things I do... less hassle to have just the one...
 

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