Just What You Can Carry On Your Back

[PaleoHunterGatherer]

Good day everyone. I would like to try a thought experiment with all you BCUK folks. This is one I've been working on for the last year, and am continuing to evolve with.
I would like you to imagine that you will have to carry all the things you could possibly need for an extended stay away from civilization, only on your person. This means using only a backpack, dufflebag, rucksack, haversack, whatever to carry the gear you think you will need.
I want you to try and think small here, the LEAST amount of things you could get away with for an extended period. I don't want you to think of huge packs weighing 30, 40, 50Ibs,or having a sherpa carrying all that neat gear we've collected for the last several years.
So, to put this into perspective, I want you to put yourself into one of these two scenarios:
1) For some reason society has collapsed, and you're on your own with limited, and possibly unfriendly contact with other folks.(you're going to have to take care of your own personal safety here)
2)For reasons beyond your control you have become a vagabond/hobo and now must wander around by yourself, and you have become a 'persona non grata' to society.
Choose either option that you are more comfortable with, and lets compare what type of minimal kits we could thrive with for potentially a long time. I'll chime in with my formulation once things get going.
Cheers, and good luck on your new choice of lifestyle.
Alex

 

[Elessar]

hhmmmmmmmmmm, thats an awesome question


well at the very least u would need:

shelter (tarp or maybe a poncho coz that can double as a rain coat)
Fire lighting kit
A good knife with a good alround sharpening stone

then in addition
a change of clothes
fishing gear (minimum lines and hooks)
traping gear (or a knowledge of traps)
water bottle x2
a spare knife
a sleeping bag or a woolen rug.


i think that would be pretty much all u would need........it'll be tough though!!!

 

[spamel]

A good idea, a lot of the decisions to be made are made more difficult due to the law! Open fires, for instance, can make a big difference. You only need to carry a cooking pot. Due to the problems with having an open fire, you would need to carry something else as a heat source, unless it is an end of the world scenario. I reckon hobo stove would be best.

What are you gonna do for food? Again, the scenarios will make this issue different. If it is end of the world, raiding old shops and killing whatever you can, maybe a bit of fishing and gathering whatever wild foods you can is gonna be difficult as everybody else will be doing the same thing. If you are tramping, you'll need to buy provisions somehow, as well as wild food gathering. Carrying three days of food would be best, continuosly repleneshing as you go along.

Kit wise can be a lot simpler, with the normal poncho/tarp as waterproof outer and then just layer up with clothing. A sleeping bag or blankets for bedding and a water container, eating kit (cup/bowl, spoon) small FAK. A cutting tool of some sort, personal preference. You can do with a lot less than what we use.

 

[Mirius]

I think that Spamel has hit the nail on the head for me. Kit is relatively straightforward. I've done enough backpacking to know that the kit you need for day to day is relatively simple. It does however always end up in that heavy pack you wanted to avoid. Lightweight gear isn't robust enough for long term use, so unless you have a permanent camp or are willing to spend several hours a day creating one from scratch I think that weight is something you will have to contend with.

But food source is the one that will I think force your hand one way or another. Depending on the scenario, fishing, seashore, trapping, roadkill could provide part of your diet but the UK isn't set up for hunter gatherer existence. Option a isn't really one that fits with what I understand you are asking (not without a massive population decrease at the same time and then we are into Survival scenarios), so option b seems a more realistic one and that means some sort of interaction with society to barter for what you need.

 

[hanzo]

If it was me in your given scenarios, I would probably have more kit than if I was hiking and camping since there would not be a return home and I would like to have the tools to make things and improvise.

I would probably take (assuming I am properly dressed and have the appropriate layers of clothing):

Edged Tools
Fallkniven F1 (since I have one and am comfortable with it)
Victorinox alox farmer (my EDC)
Bark River Golok (useful in my environment)
Bahco folding saw (always in my pack)
Small ax (also serve as a hammer)
Multitool and a sturdy pair of pliers (if things have gone to pot, there will be a lot of man-made rubbish that can be used)
DC4 sharpener
a file

Fire Kit
2 ferro rods (one on my person and a back up in a fire kit)
2 disposable lighters (one on my person and a back up in a fire kit plus any I can scrounge)
jute cord (on my person and back up in a fire kit)
fatwood
zip lock bags for gathered tinder)
a couple of road flares (in case I get close to hypothermic and need fire NOW)

Shelter
Tarp
Wool blanket
Light bivy bag
Cordage
(If I could, I would take a folding shovel too, for stealth shelter building since in the scenarios given, I wouldn't want to be found or seen)

Food & Water
Two water bottles/canteens with metal cups
can improvise cook pot and hobo stove with found stuff
sling
snare wire
more cordage
fishing line
zip lock bags for forage and storage
take down Hawaiian sling spear (I have one and it works great)
3L dromedary bag (to gather water)
salt
uncooked rice
beef jerky
some candy (for quick energy)
tea leaves (light weight caffeine and comfort)

Hygiene & Comfort
A change of clothes
An extra set of underwear and socks
soap
tooth brush and tooth paste
floss
chap stick (also will work with fire kit)
a pair of swim trunks
a pair of sandals (to change into to air out my feet)
foot powder (if the excrement has hit the fan and your feet rot, you are in big trouble being immobile)
first aid kit plus any meds I can lay my hands on and carry
as many bandanas as I can get a hold of (multi-purpose including being a reusable, with cleaning "toilet paper")
Petzl Tikka XP head lamp + spare rechargeable batteries
solar charger
a rugged pack to carry all this stuff in
work gloves
rain jacket (a rain jacket and swim trunks would serve me better than a poncho)
some heavy duty trash bags (for waterproofing things in the back and is multi-purpose)
a mosquito net (can also be used to catch food)

All this stuff would probably weigh in around 40 pounds. I would be pretty self-sufficient with that much gear and at that weight, be pretty mobile. That's all I can think of right now.

 

[hanzo]

I'd probably want to take a bow and some arrows too, if I could.

 

[Sickboy]

I'd be making sure everything is as robust as possible so would be willing to carry a bit more weight. Keep it basic though, if it's all gone pete tong then you should be able to snaffle all you need, and i think i'd be happy with a small bore shot gun wedged in or lashed on, make getting food a lot easier in the stix, and it'll have other uses too

 

[Neanderthal]

In a TEOTWAWKI scenario I'd be inclined to carry a staff/spear as this would be versatile, not run out of bullets or impossible to maintain. I'm not a gun person anyway. Even in scenario 2 a staff is not too unusual an object to be carrying, until you get on the bus.

A staff could be a help when walking, river crossings or making a temporary shelter, pot hanger rig, etc. I needed mine recently to fend of dogs. With a pointy end I could have been set for dinner.

A spear with detachable head allows different options for hunting/defence and if you loose a point then it doen't mean making a new spear. Spears are more stealthy than things which go bang.

When I'm going out alone I've often been asked, "Don't you get scared?". The answer is "Only when there are other people about".

Stu

 

[Eric_Methven]

2)For reasons beyond your control you have become a vagabond/hobo and now must wander around by yourself, and you have become a 'persona non grata' to society.

A warm coat and a bottle of cheap wine.

Eric

 

[Geuf]

Nice question.

I was thinking of going out with gear to match that question. So I have thought about this the past couple of weeks. Without reading any of your posts I would take the following for living an extented period of time outdoors.


Sleeping system
Poncho, sleepingbag, bivybag
Socks ( a man's best friend. atleast 5 pairs)
an extra pair of underpants
overtrousers (goretexarmyovertrousers)
my axe
knife
spoon knife
folding saw
hand drill (for drilling holes, not making fire :- )
flint and steel
firesteel
billy can like pan
airgun with 2000 - 3000 rounds
rope ( say 2 x 20 meters of paracord )
a good book
a cook book
a survivalbook
a pencil
a notebook
a steel mug
toothbrush, nailclippers, mirror, 3 soap bars, footpowder, firstaid kit
compass, watch (wind up)


jezus, I didn't know the list would go on and on whilst writing it. lol!
but er.. something like this. I now realise that I wasn't thinking of going out like this. but more like going out with an axe, a knife, a billycan a sleepingbag and some food.

note to self: press submit reply and start reading other peoples posts.

 

[andy_e]

Geuf, I love the fact that you've included a cook book and no food, isn't that a bit masochistic?

 

[PaleoHunterGatherer]

Geuf, your response is more in line with what I was thinking...and your and my list could go on and on...that's the purpose of this thread. To get us thinking outside the 'I gotta carry everything' mentality many bushcrafters fall into.
Fire, Water, Shelter/Warmth, Food, Personal Hygene, Self Protection. These are the core. Think, I must travel light(either scenario I first mentioned). I must procure these things without the help of others, I certainly can't walk into a shop and buy these items(1. society has collapse = no supplies, or 2. vagabond = no money to purchase them).
Under each of the core headings everyone should try to come up with only ONE tool/item that is durable and would fit the intended use.
BCUK folks should also think that in either of these scenarios walking around with a shiny new Bergen, or a splashly suave Ventile is going to get YOU noticed, and then any old group of yobs will come along and relieve you of nice shiny kit!
I personally travel about with my very old, but still tough CF duffle bag from the '70's when I was in the services. Hauls all the gear I need, and is not conspicuous. I also use my CF haversack, as my 'Possibles bag'. Again inconspicuous either walking about the paths in the countryside of Britain, or if you were trucking about greater London.
Geuf, your idea of going out with an axe, knife billycan, sleeping bag and food is what I'm talking about...
Cheers
Alex

 

[big_swede]

TEOTWAWKI? *yawn* I skip your scenarios and just gonna fill in what I would carry if I would to spend a longer time away from civilisation. I would go for a log cabin/trapping station. So The first priorities would be quality tools.

Doublebit limbing and felling axe
Carving axe with a hammer head on the poll
Mora knife
Adze (without handle, could easily be done in situ)
Flat and round chisels (without handles)
Bow saw with spare blades (meat/bone and green wood)
Ripping saw
Some nails (quite a lot maybe)
A long drill bit with an end that is suitable for making a wooden handle
Files and stones for sharpening. (ever tried shapening a green wood bow saw blade? It's a real PITA)

I would carry a rifle, probably a 6.5X55 or a .30-06, a lot of bullets, some full metal jackets for smaller game (I once shot a ptarmigan with a fmj .30-06 and there was a lot left for eating, beleive it or not). From cordage I would be able to do snares, and from wood and stones I would do figure-4-deadfalls. Carbs and vitamins I would have to forage (correction, swmbo would do the foraging). Maybe do a cordage purse net and some wooden fish traps. A good set of butcher knifes is certainly needed. Maybe carry some seeds for beans and maybe some turnips or something. Seeds don't weigh so much so I guess I could take a lot.

Of course I would carry some basic stuff for the construction time, like a tarp and a blanket. Also a pot+pan (like tatonka maybe) and some basic eating utensils (but that goes withoput saying). A spare set of clothes might be cramped down on my frame-pack if there was room.

There you have it. <starts singing> I'll do it my way

 

[Celt_Ginger]

warm/waterproof clothing and spares
2 x knives (F1 and a Mora)
Small Axe (my shiney new Cegga)
Tarp, sleeping bag(endurence 0) and bivi bag
Para cord
2 x fire steels
Mossi head net
Zebra billy can
Duck tape
Compass and maps
First aid kit
Snare wire
Multi tool
Bow saw blade
Water bottle
Dry bags
nails
Bar of soap
Survival book
20 year old blond Nymphomaniac.

 

[fred gordon]

Here's another thought. If you look closely at the kit list you normally use, more than 50% of it, including the weight and bulk, is for night time use and not during the day. That's why most of us can go out with very little kit during the day but include an overnight stop and the amount rockets.

 

[stotRE]

If the ballon went up tommorrow the only two items that i would need is my leuku and a sledgehammer.

The sledgehammer is for abit of five fingered shopping at tesco's and the leuku is for my hobo stew whilst singing the theme to "the littlest hobo."

Later on i may add some shoulder pads with nails knocked through them for that 'thunderdome' look.

 

[Eric_Methven]

If the ballon went up tommorrow the only two items that i would need is my leuku and a sledgehammer.

The sledgehammer is for abit of five fingered shopping at tesco's and the leuku is for stabbing fellow hobo's and then for hacking up there bones for my hobo stew whilst singing the theme to "the littlest hobo."

Later on i may add some shoulder pads with nails knocked through them for that 'thunderdome' look.

That's why I said a warm coat and a bottle of cheap wine. I'm probably going to end up in someone's stew. I might as well marinate myself and get some enjoyment from the experience.

Eric

 

[Greg]

Nice big lists there lads, lots of water bottles / carriers but have you thought about filtration, I know you can boil the water to purify it but it will normally still need filtering before boiling. Just a thought.

But to answer the initial question, I would personally stick to the towns, lots of sheltered places to stay un-noticed, I would try to find somewhere discreet as a lay-up position (probably the roof of a block of flats, good all round vision and easily defendable if needed) If society has broken down I would, if I'm honest, do my best to get hold of a gun and lots of ammo for personal protection as well as a knife.
A poncho and a wool blanket with a hobostove set up would probably surfice.
Clothing wise I would make sure I had a hat and gloves. I would stay away from fancy clothing (Gore-tex etc) you only become a target. (If you think about it, yobs nowadays stab each other over a pair of fancy trainers so imagine what it would be like if social order broke down!) I would probably wear a norgi shirt, a thick wool jumper, my coveralls (fire-proof & warm) and my donkey jacket and work boots(they have a nice steel toe-cap!)
I would stay low during the day and make my way around at night.
If I was hungry or in need of other provisions I would probably resort to raiding empty shops/houses. At the end of the day I am a vagabond (although not a criminal by choice) in the scenario!
And if I was arrested then at least I would have somewhere warm and dry to stay and be fed for a few nights.

 

[big_swede]

Here there is no need for filtering water. And if the need should arise I would make a charcoal/sphagnum filter in a few minutes.

 

[Geuf]

about rope, snares, etc.
You can always find these things in almost every area. would it be needed to bring?

A airgun would be very nice to easily get food, but not very low profile though. it Would be nice to have with me though.

If I was taking the very very very bare minimum and I had to stay low profile and outside for an extended period of time I would take:

Sleeping bag (with bivy)
poncho
Axe
knife
multitool
billycan
bar of soap
toothbrush + toothpaste
2 extra pair of socks
flint and steel and a metal tube to produce charloth
some food