Your lucky, we aren't all blessed with Swedens' water purity. Have you seen the water in the UK!
Just What You Can Carry On Your Back
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Your lucky, we aren't all blessed with Swedens' water purity. Have you seen the water in the UK!
Haha, though for your sake I'd prob consider moving her somewhere further up that list
I love these 'what-if's, so to answer the question, I think the two main factors are how long is extended, and whether you can get supplies at any point during your stay - buying, begging or stealing as is necessary.
If that isn't possible and the stay is likely to be a long one I'd no doubt sacrifice light weight for increased durability. I'd probably try to move away from civilisation a bit, find myself a small forest somewhere in which to make a more permanent 'home'.
For this I'll run through my usual kit-packing 'checklist'
Shelter:
A canvas tarp possibly? I don't have much experience with canvas so I'd be interested in hearing other peoples views on the idea, but I'm thinking in winter a fire inside / very close to a shelter would be almost essential for long term living, and canvas would withstand sparks and last longer than most modern tarps. I might consider a canvas teepee?
Wool blankets for sleeping in / on, my laplander saw, clipper knife and sharpening stone for making a 'bed', possible walls, etc.
Fire:
A few LMF flints, a few cheap lighters plus plenty of paracord (comes in handy for everything, plus bow drills if the flints and lighters run out). Bushbuddy maybe for using in a teepee / shelter
Water:
A billy or two and a metal mug. Filters are easy to make, I'd preferably choose a place with uncontaminated water - a spring nearby
Food:
Dehydrated for the first few days / weeks, then a good field guide to supplement my admittedly limited knowledge afterwards. In an emergency in the UK though food is unlikely to be a problem; an abundance of plant food through the greater part of the year and there're plenty of sheep if things get dire. I might consider taking a lightweight accurate springer air rifle and a few thousand pellets. Doesn't weigh much and could provide plenty of food. I thought maybe a .22 rifle, but I don't think the weight of the bullets in comparison with a .177 air rifle would be worth it. I'd also take along a bunch of snares
Navigation:
Not a great concern, I'd probably know the area well.
Signalling:
I guess the issue here would be mostly about how NOT to attract attention. This is where the military guys and girls could come into their own. I'd try to take colours that blend in; olive greens, etc. I'd be kind of tempted to take SOME kind of signalling devices, but if society truly wouldn't help, there'd be no point.
Medical:
A good first aid kit would be an essential. Preferably make sure my tetanus is up to date before going, antibiotics, bandages, plasters, immodium, painkillers. Try to do some good outdoor medicine courses first, and possibly take a medical handbook
Night:
A bombproof but lightweight wind-up torch (do they exist?!), aside form that I'd depend on a fire and if necessary make candles
Personal:
Well a diary is a must
after all if things get back to normal the autobiography would sort you for life!Clothing:
Good boots, strong clothing that's likely to last. I'd try to stay away from synthetics again because of the problem of sparks from a fire in the long term. A few strong needles with big eyes and a half decent sewing kit
Carry:
Well though I've been trying to take only the essentials, this lot is going to weigh, so a good strong rucksack that'll last. I'll not get into the discussion of which is best!
Activities:
Pencils for the diary...
Thinking through all of this it actually sounds so so tempting!
'TEOTWAWKI? *yawn* I skip your scenarios'...Big Swede, I don't recall mentioning TEOTWAWKI, read original post...
Cheers
Alex
Cheers
Alex
Well if society collapses, doesn't that change the world as we know it?
P
PIDDOCK
Guest
If society has collapsed why carry anything? I am sure there will be lots of empty houses, supermarkets et al
In such a situation I'd say you'll be faced with survival of the fittest so all your conventional rules and politness will be forgotten.
As for all those above lists, guys is this bushcraft?? Travel light and fast with just a cooking pot, and your cutting tools if you dont the scavengers and bandit brigades who will roam the streets will get you.
In such a situation I'd say you'll be faced with survival of the fittest so all your conventional rules and politness will be forgotten.
As for all those above lists, guys is this bushcraft?? Travel light and fast with just a cooking pot, and your cutting tools if you dont the scavengers and bandit brigades who will roam the streets will get you.
I live in a friendly suburb bordering to a forest in which one can walk for days without crossing a road. With some basic bearings you could easily get to quite roadless lands in a week or so, were the population is scarce today, probably even less if society would collapse. I wouldn't worry about bandit brigades or mad max-type marauders, not in the short time-scale it would take to gather some tools, and my gun and get the h3ll out of the city and out in the forest. As bandit types are less likely to try to make a living off the land I would go there. A building might be easier to defend, but probably you would face an overwhelming group of bandits, which would make a building a trap, unless you'd have an escape route. In my eyes, a forest camp would be easier to defend or at least evacuate. Maybe have a guard dog and make the road home like a 'fish-hook'.
I must say that I don't beleive in a dog-eat-dog scenario in europe. At all. I have some theories about the horrible scenes from new orleans and why they happened, but I don't wan't to have that discussion here.
P
PIDDOCK
Guest
Big Swede buddy thats the beauty of theoretical debates none of us know what will happen if it does at all.
As for europe geez you guys are at each others throats all the time, your whole history i warfare why would that change if soceity crumbled??
As for europe geez you guys are at each others throats all the time, your whole history i warfare why would that change if soceity crumbled??
Ok, lets have a go at this then...
In either situation I would take:
1 pot with a handle
1 good sturdy knife
1 sharpening stone
Sleeping bag or blankets
Tarp or poncho
1 axe or heavy long-bladed knife
1 ferro rod
1 12-bore shotgun (if I could get hold of it), with barrel and butt sawn off for easy carry.
A couple of wild food/survival books for referance. These can also be used as tinder if desperate.
And that's it.
To be honest I probably wouldn't last long, but at least people would respect me for having minimal kit
In either situation I would take:
1 pot with a handle
1 good sturdy knife
1 sharpening stone
Sleeping bag or blankets
Tarp or poncho
1 axe or heavy long-bladed knife
1 ferro rod
1 12-bore shotgun (if I could get hold of it), with barrel and butt sawn off for easy carry.
A couple of wild food/survival books for referance. These can also be used as tinder if desperate.
And that's it.
To be honest I probably wouldn't last long, but at least people would respect me for having minimal kit
P
PIDDOCK
Guest
To be honest I probably wouldn't last long, but at least people would respect me for having minimal kit
Switch, in many more cases than you would believe its not having the skill to survive but the will that will prevail!!
Of course training = confidence = self belief = the will to survive and the ability to adapt and over come so we should never lightly pass over the relevance of survival courses, the more and varied they are the more and varied will be your experiences and your confidence. Self training is ok for those who go camping and do the wilderness living thing but you need to be pushed when it comes to survival skills because a survival situation will usually happen when you least expect it and are least prepapred!
Anyone ever done a course where they took your knife and all your gear off you at the start? How many people here could handle that?
I wouldn't mind having a go at that.
The kit I mentioned would be what I would take if I were given the chance to pack a few things but, as you quite rightly pointed out, a survival situation will happen when you least expect it and are least prepared. Most of what I listed could be improvised, but I really wouldn't want to be in the situation where I had to improvise a good knife or axe.
I like to think I'd be ok though, even without my small choice of equipment. It would be tough but I'm quite a stubborn person and the idea of not surviving would irritate me to the point where I'd make sure I did survive, purely on principle
A couple of thoughts:
You don't really need a pot/billy, you can easily make one from discarded tins and fencing wire - better to take a sturdy multi-tool or decent pliers and wire-cutters and scavenge/make what you need.
Good wool blankets in this situation are better than a sleeping bag IMO, take two and turn one into a poncho liner with a head-slit, wrap yourself in both if it gets cold.
With respect Piddock, your country doesn't have the most peaceful of histories either and you guys do have many more weapons in the hands of individuals. If I may share another thought, the only reason you haven't started a war with your Canadian cousins is that they are so damned polite
You don't really need a pot/billy, you can easily make one from discarded tins and fencing wire - better to take a sturdy multi-tool or decent pliers and wire-cutters and scavenge/make what you need.
Good wool blankets in this situation are better than a sleeping bag IMO, take two and turn one into a poncho liner with a head-slit, wrap yourself in both if it gets cold.
With respect Piddock, your country doesn't have the most peaceful of histories either and you guys do have many more weapons in the hands of individuals. If I may share another thought, the only reason you haven't started a war with your Canadian cousins is that they are so damned polite
P
PIDDOCK
Guest
True AndyE but Im not under the delusion that it all wouldnt break down to that levell, my comments about Europe were answers to Big Swede.
Oh and for the record we did have a war with Canada while it was in British hands, the 44th of Foot and the Black Watch marched into the States and burned the white house........... of course Americans dont like to remember that part of our history especially as we lost round two, but being of English ancestory I think it kinda cool.
But were hijacking the thread so lets not go there eh, history lessons can be on another day.
Oh and for the record we did have a war with Canada while it was in British hands, the 44th of Foot and the Black Watch marched into the States and burned the white house........... of course Americans dont like to remember that part of our history especially as we lost round two, but being of English ancestory I think it kinda cool.
But were hijacking the thread so lets not go there eh, history lessons can be on another day.
I think it's time to make a difference between just surviving and living. I wouldn't call it a living to be sleeping under a tarp for any longer time, nor would I be satisfied fighting with the rats and the scum in suburban ruins. Give me convienience or give me death! (as DK said once). I would be alive, but not have a good life.
As any higher level of technology requires a lot of energy and maintenance I would fall back to some kind of agriculture/trapping/foraging. Maybe trading with other people if I knew any friendlies, maybe settle in to new small farming collectives, complete with a defense wall. Hehehe, I'm really getting into this now.
Small scale wind/waterpower, some rudimentary electronic appliances. That's probably the kind of technology we would be stuck with. Wouldn't want to rely on combustion engines as fuel soon would be scarce. Horsepowered plowing and harvesting. Welcome to the new 1800s.. We need a gunsmith, anybody interested?
(I admit, I have a vivid fantasy )
As any higher level of technology requires a lot of energy and maintenance I would fall back to some kind of agriculture/trapping/foraging. Maybe trading with other people if I knew any friendlies, maybe settle in to new small farming collectives, complete with a defense wall. Hehehe, I'm really getting into this now.
Small scale wind/waterpower, some rudimentary electronic appliances. That's probably the kind of technology we would be stuck with. Wouldn't want to rely on combustion engines as fuel soon would be scarce. Horsepowered plowing and harvesting. Welcome to the new 1800s.. We need a gunsmith, anybody interested?
(I admit, I have a vivid fantasy
)I was thinking more along the lines of what happened to New Orleans when Hurricane Katrina flattened it. A real TEOTWAWKI scenario in my mind would be nuclear war, planet killing asteroid that kind of scenario.
What I'm trying to do here is get us bushcrafters out of our cozy 'well I can go back to civilization when I'm through bushcrafting' mentality. I mean lets be honest, we all know that at the end of the day we could go home to a home, tv, diner, tea etc, etc.
This thought experiment should get us thinking in terms different that we're presently used to.
Switch, thats the type of list I was thinking about.
Andy e, that's the idea I was thinking of, discarded cans, bailing wire...
Fits both a societal breakdown scenario, or the vagabond/hobo one.I tend to think though andy e, that we Canadians are more cousins to you folks in the UK(we are still a member of the Commonwealth I think?) than to our neighbors south of us.
I didn't realize we were overly polite though...we in hindsight maybe so, but more complacent than anything else.
Keep it coming chaps, some great thoughts and ideas so far.
Cheers
Alex
Alex,
What would you take with you I wonder?
In my view, there are so many factors that decide what to take and where to go with who. Availability of the stuff you already have and availability of the stuff you can find an/or scavange. You cannot find trash in prestine wilderness as good as in (semi) urban surroundings.
Also something that suprises me is the social aspect many people forget when wondering about this question. The classical fact that "you know everybody in the world in 5 to 7 social steps" is a crucial element.
This is about the with who would you go question. I would realy like to stay with my girlfriend for example. But, she and I would also like to be with our families. Those families contain brothers and sisters with boyfriends, girlfriend, wives, husbands and friend. Not to mention that living out for an extended period of time will go a lot smoother in my opinion with bushcraft/survival buddies of mine.
So if you could take everybody you wanted with you. And those people could do the same. Then with knowledge of knowing the world in 7 social steps, we would be at a secret location somewhere deep in the forest dodging groups of savages with about 6 milion people.
your thoughts?
edit:
The absolute bare minimum would be bare naked chasing around fish in a river at some subtropical location whilst holding on on your just found coconuts
What would you take with you I wonder?
In my view, there are so many factors that decide what to take and where to go with who. Availability of the stuff you already have and availability of the stuff you can find an/or scavange. You cannot find trash in prestine wilderness as good as in (semi) urban surroundings.
Also something that suprises me is the social aspect many people forget when wondering about this question. The classical fact that "you know everybody in the world in 5 to 7 social steps" is a crucial element.
This is about the with who would you go question. I would realy like to stay with my girlfriend for example. But, she and I would also like to be with our families. Those families contain brothers and sisters with boyfriends, girlfriend, wives, husbands and friend. Not to mention that living out for an extended period of time will go a lot smoother in my opinion with bushcraft/survival buddies of mine.
So if you could take everybody you wanted with you. And those people could do the same. Then with knowledge of knowing the world in 7 social steps, we would be at a secret location somewhere deep in the forest dodging groups of savages with about 6 milion people.
your thoughts?
edit:
The absolute bare minimum would be bare naked chasing around fish in a river at some subtropical location whilst holding on on your just found coconuts
The absolute bare minimum would be bare naked chasing around fish in a river at some subtropical location whilst holding on on your just found coconuts
lol true true.
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