Jokkmokk - Sub Zero Trip - February 2013

[Wayland]

Udamiano - Flying out 25th January to Stockholm returning 10th February - Arriving Jokkmokk 28th January. Departing JM. TBC.

Wayland - Flying out 25th January to Stockholm returning 10th February - Arriving Jokkmokk 28th January. Departing JM. TBC.

TeePee - Stockholm-Lulea-Jokkmokk 6th Feb. Jokkmokk-Abisko 10/11th feb- Returning 19th Feb from Kiruna

MadDave - Flying into Stockholm on 3rd. Arrive Jokkmokk 4th. Leaving Jokkmokk 9th for flight out on 10th

Riam - Flying into Stockholm on 3rd. Arrive Jokkmokk 4th. Leaving Jokkmokk 9th for flight out on 10th

Charliefoxtrot - Flying into Stockholm 1st, arrive Jokkmokk 2nd ~midday via train/bus. Depart JM 10th via Lulea.

Ducky and his mate - flying out 3rd February to Lulea - Returning 13th February from Lulea

 

[charliefoxtrot]

Having seen Shewie's neat rig last weekend, with lightweight DIY woodburner and cotton scout-tent fly standing in well instead of a $$ snowtrekker, I'm having hot-tent thoughts.

Has anyone given this consideration ? I'd be interested to hear any views. What about knocking up a lightweight tipi canvas and using locally-sourced poles ?

 

[DUCky]

Having seen Shewie's neat rig last weekend, with lightweight DIY woodburner and cotton scout-tent fly standing in well instead of a $$ snowtrekker, I'm having hot-tent thoughts.

Has anyone given this consideration ? I'd be interested to hear any views. What about knocking up a lightweight tipi canvas and using locally-sourced poles ?

I am bringing my tipi and stove. This will allow some warmth during the day and you can heat the tipi before sleeping, but at night if it is something like 30/40 below, the temp will soon drop unless you want to stay awake all night to feed the fire (which I don't intend to do). Unless you bring a bigger stove you will still be cold tenting pretty soon. I am bringing a warm sleeping bag and overbag which should be good even without a fire.

 

[Dreadhead]

completely forgot about this. Were not going to be able to make it. really gutted but health problems have put a stop to any sort of travelling or camping at the moment. probably saving myself an absolute fortune as i dont know how i would restrain myself at that market!

have fun guys hopefully make it next year

 

[Teepee]

Having seen Shewie's neat rig last weekend, with lightweight DIY woodburner and cotton scout-tent fly standing in well instead of a $$ snowtrekker, I'm having hot-tent thoughts.

Has anyone given this consideration ? I'd be interested to hear any views. What about knocking up a lightweight tipi canvas and using locally-sourced poles ?

Your not alone, hot tent thoughts come and go every day. The warmth and comfort are very appealling. I've broadly decided against it for a few reasons; weight, size and hassle factor. I'm travelling a lot and need my packing to be as straightforward as I can make it.

 

[Wayland]

Make like rabbits and burrow in.

I was warm as toast down to -16°C last year. I got the feeling that it would have been fine a lot colder as well.

 

[ex-member BareThrills]

Just love that picture Gary. Selling the dream in a big way that one

 

[maddave]

Make like rabbits and burrow in.

I was warm as toast down to -16°C last year. I got the feeling that it would have been fine a lot colder as well.

This is pretty much what I'm thinking Gary. I'm going to bring a lightweight 4x4m poly tarp too for lean to type shelters. Good sleeping kit is gonna keep me warm at night. I think a Quinzee is the way to go though if the snow is in condition. I have heard of people making igloos by packing snow in large plastic tubs then using the blocks that they tip out. I might give this a go too......

Or take it up a notch..........

 

[Imagedude]

Am I the only one stupid enough to be sleeping out for the duration?

Isn't that the point of the exercise?
Will you be taking any ibuttons?

 

[Shewie]

Here you go chaps ...

[video=vimeo;30434583]http://vimeo.com/30434583[/video]

 

[DUCky]

Cool Rich!

As we experienced last year, building stuff like this or the quinzee is definately a team effort unless you plan to use it for a prolonged period. It's just too much work for an individual or for a short stay. It took our whole group an entire morning to build a quinzee that sleeps two.
For people on the move like Teepee, that is not on. If we can find a good spot, this would be a nice project however for my brother in law and myself. All depends on the snow and conditions. I might try and sleep in a snow trench for one night to see how that works out or one of the hybrid emergency shelters we made on the course with snow and branches.

We had snow yesterday in the Netherlands. I want to go now

 

[Twodogs]

These chaps sell the hot camping idea for me ,, but I also see teepees problem with weight ,

More wood ,,


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Xc_iXmx5qI

Twodogs

 

[charliefoxtrot]

All good info ! Clearly using local materials to make shelter saves a lot of weight, but can take a lot of time/effort to create which may rule them out if moving day to day. Wayland was very lucky to find a ready-made snow pile !

Local availability of shelter materials is a bit of unknown. We may not be supposed to be cutting live timber for example, so bringing some form of self-contained shelter is advisable. A tarp at least seems essential. I'm pondering how much weight it would add to have an enclosed space (zip-on cotton endwalls ?) and a lightweight stove like shewie made. Must do some more reading on wintertrekking.com..

 

[Twodogs]

Morning Gents

I have been dwelling on this for a couple of days now and feel it has to be said Teepee I know you are a very skilled bloke but going with a plan to live under a tarp and cold camp up north is bad planning in the extreme for the length of time you will be out you are cutting your safety margins far to close .....


Please for the sake of safety reconcider using a hot tent system even if its just as a base camp to play out from ,,

You are welcome to use my Kifaru folding stove as I will be back from my trip by then but you will just need to sort out some sort of shelter to put it in ,




Twodogs

 

[udamiano]

OK. for the record, and to keep anyone reading this in the future thinking everyone is mad (sorry dave, present company excepted )

1. It is the responsibility of each individual to have the appropriate equipment, training, and responsibility for their own safety and welfare.
2. Having discussed this with others, it was noted that it should be stated on the thread, that for those out in the wild, a back-up plan has been devised.
3. This is not being run by any organisation, individual, party, or company. It is as stated throughout this thread a meet in a different country, and those attending do so on their own understanding that they are wholly responsible for themselves, their health and safety. I would strongly recommend however that each individual has the appropriate insurance to cover any and all eventualities, and have in place a personal plan just in case something does go wrong.

Additional Serious Bit, please take note:

Extreme cold weather, such as Jokkmokk get over the time we will be there, should be taken very seriously, at -35 unprotected human skin will freeze in a matter of minutes, and for a person to survive in open terrain, then that person will need to and maintain a 72ºC difference in temperature between the outside world and their internal body. The main factors for heat loss are.

Radiation
Evaporation
Convention
and Conduction.

Each of these will have to be addressed in order for someone to not only survive but to thrive in the outdoors at these temperatures. (I have been asked and will address these in a separate thread, in the next day or two)

Now to the reader not directly involved in this trip.

At the time of writing this 99% of the above has already been covered with those intending to go. This has been done mainly through Private Messages (PMs) or though emails and phone calls; and this is why it doesn't show up throughout this thread. In addition to this a number of meets have been arranged where kit and skill will be both discussed and practiced before the start of the trip.

I hope this clears some of the concerns and comments. If you would like any further information, although Im not in charge (no one is). I may be in the best position to answer your question, as the others are quite busy at this time of year with work, families and such. however questions to individuals should be asked directly, And i suggest via the PM system.

Da

 

[Imagedude]

you are cutting your safety margins far to close .....


Twodogs

I'd agree with the above. Tarps won't protect you from spindrift. I'd be looking at taking a good one man tent (the king of camping shelter). It will be quick to pitch in emergencies and will give you somewhere to get changed into dry kit out of the wind. I'll be using a tent on my solo trip to Finland.

 

[Teepee]

Isn't that the point of the exercise?
Will you be taking any ibuttons?

No iButtons, I'm taking a Kestrel 3000 that will do instant readings.

Morning Gents

I have been dwelling on this for a couple of days now and feel it has to be said Teepee I know you are a very skilled bloke but going with a plan to live under a tarp and cold camp up north is bad planning in the extreme for the length of time you will be out you are cutting your safety margins far to close .....


Please for the sake of safety reconcider using a hot tent system even if its just as a base camp to play out from ,,

You are welcome to use my Kifaru folding stove as I will be back from my trip by then but you will just need to sort out some sort of shelter to put it in ,




Twodogs

Hi mate your concerns are well received and appreciated. All very pertinent points and TBH, I've had the conversation with myself. I'm under no illusion that this isn't going to be very taxing.

Da has covered a lot of the points well. Whilst I'm aiming to solo cold camp, I've set up bail outs. I'll not be venturing far from STF or Norwegian cabins or civilistaion, I'll also have a GPS spot beacon in case the very worst happens and I need help. Theres a good chance I'll have some company too up north but that isn't finalised. I have breaks in between being out with decent length bus journeys.

If the weather is bad and for one second I think I'll endanger my safety or others, I'll be booking into a cabin and battering the plastic No room for pride out there.

The offer of the stove is golden, thank you mate. At this time, for better or worse, I'm going to pass.

 

[Teepee]

I'd agree with the above. Tarps won't protect you from spindrift. I'd be looking at taking a good one man tent (the king of camping shelter). It will be quick to pitch in emergencies and will give you somewhere to get changed into dry kit out of the wind. I'll be using a tent on my solo trip to Finland.

Agreed. My winter tarp with doors will be going with me as spindrift free shelter.

 

[Twodogs]

Good man , I can sleep better now

 

[DUCky]

Agreed. My winter tarp with doors will be going with me as spindrift free shelter.

I assume you will be taking two portable trees with you to ensure a place to 'hang'

Do you promise to try and keep your clothes on this time?