Input on putting together a first kit bag

[Mozzi]

Miht I caragorically add that no fishing hook , however sharp, is going to be suitable for stitches, for one its not sterile, two its FAR too blunt, 3 the mono line isn't sterile either.

maybe not a big deal to you. however, if I meet you at one of the sussex meets, and you get injured, and its left to me to apply first aid, Im going to milk it till its dry. lol

 

[Robson Valley]

Where I live is bush-bashing at it's finest. There are a few game trails but that's about it. Landmarks and a map are sort of useless with heavy cloud cover or flat forest. Most valleys are so narrow that a GPS can't get a fix. My sole suggestion is to buy a reasonably good compass. Silva has been mentioned, good. In a dense fog, you will need it.
In 1964, I bought a Recta Prospector compass in LaRonge SK. Only one they stocked and I thought it would be cool to have. Despite the growing bubble over the years, I need it once. I found that I'd walked, uncertainly, in a circle several miles in diameter. I'd taken a general bearing at the beginning, so I knew that the opposite was the logging road. The bubble was annoying so went shopping for a new compass. First, read Field&Stream Magazine's Best-of-the-Best list each year. Companies want bragging rights so F&S get's all sorts of gear to play with and beat up.

Just so happened, there was a compass comparison in that day and time! Out on top was the Brunton 8099 Eclipse in the rubber armored casing. Danged if I didn't need it just a few years later. I used it to walk myself out of a mountain snowstorm = very unsettling to be so uncertain of location. Completely "turned around". Uphill and downhill were easy but visibility less than 50 yds in a forest completely unfamiliar to me. Had I followed instinct, I would have walked north, 90 degree to the east that I needed. Hard to forget. Lesson: trust the compass.
Long story, I know.

 

[dewi]

By ostracised I mean shunned, and it does happen. if I go out with someone for a weekend, I remind them twice to bring one. I carry enough supplies to treat two people easily but it might get lost.....

Good, but if you're refering to the OP, you may notice he has listed a small first aid kit in his list... it's there, easily missed, but I'm afraid nobody is being ostracised or shunned.

If you genuinely do ostracise or shun anyone for not turning up with a first aid kit though.... you're missing out on some of the most interesting people on this Earth... the people who don't think of the health and safety guidelines first and tend to live in the moment.

Yep, they die younger, but personally given a choice between living to an age old enough that my children have to wipe my backside, or dying young enough to be remembered as the chap who enjoyed a full and interesting life.... I dunno... difficult choice.

Let me have a think and get back to you.... meanwhile carry on with your shunning and ostracising!

 

[Mozzi]

He said cheap first aid it, in FAK terms cheap is usually inadequate. and also commented about how it would never get used etc. personally, I don't need to increase risk to increase my ability to live in the moment. and because of that, I can live in many different moments.

 

[rik_uk3]

http://www.thedefibpad.co.uk/defibt...E9Z8lHgisz1iYsU6AQGJZDc9AFIgCwRQd7RoC1Rjw_wcB shame about the colour, green would have been better, this is without doubt 'must have' kit for when your in the woods.

 

[dewi]

http://www.thedefibpad.co.uk/defibt...E9Z8lHgisz1iYsU6AQGJZDc9AFIgCwRQd7RoC1Rjw_wcB shame about the colour, green would have been better, this is without doubt 'must have' kit for when your in the woods.

I can see a problem straightaway there Rik.... if it were green, you might put it down, forget and then when your heart does go out of rhythm (which lets face it, is inevitable) you won't easily find it. Even in yellow it could be mistaken for a large block of butter. I'd suggest bright pink and perhaps some flashing lights attached to it to make it easier to find.

 

[hughlle1]

Good, but if you're refering to the OP, you may notice he has listed a small first aid kit in his list... it's there, easily missed, but I'm afraid nobody is being ostracised or shunned.

If you genuinely do ostracise or shun anyone for not turning up with a first aid kit though.... you're missing out on some of the most interesting people on this Earth... the people who don't think of the health and safety guidelines first and tend to live in the moment.

Yep, they die younger, but personally given a choice between living to an age old enough that my children have to wipe my backside, or dying young enough to be remembered as the chap who enjoyed a full and interesting life.... I dunno... difficult choice.

Let me have a think and get back to you.... meanwhile carry on with your shunning and ostracising!

Don't get me wrong, i do think about H&S. But i am fully capable of existing without a first aid kit, as my track record shows. If people feel it is absolutely vital to have a bandage for when you get an owie, then fine, but it would be nice if these folk would stop ostracising me for doing things my own way. I do not, and have never found a need for bandages and first aid, why does that make everyone so mad?

The comment about "milk it till it's dry", well all i can say to that is wow. What you're saying is "i warned him, so let's make him suffer". That sounds like a pretty abhorrent personality trait if you ask me, and i'd probably be anywhere but on an outing with someone like that.

For those who've just decided that "he is new, let's treat him like someone who knows absolutely nothing and just make assumptions (he has fishing kit, he's going to poach... etc), maybe you need to consider that i have lived in the countryside my entire life, only recently having moved to london for uni. I am very capable of taking care of myself during a day trip into the woods. Some of you guys make it sound like you couldn't even tie your boot laces without accidentally severing the jugular. You do know i've been working with knives my entire working life right? Or did you skip over that bit as well.

And why does cheap have to mean crap? I said it was a cheap compass, i was told to put it back on ebay, despite said cheap compass being the same brand you then tell me to go and buy.. I've not told you the brand, or content etc, yet you read cheap and have no desire to ask what it is exactly but just assume it is therefore crap.

It's pretty sad to just make assumptions like this and then flame someone without even considering that maybe , just maybe, you do not know all the details (whether because you couldn't be bothered to read and just wanted to jump straight in and sound superior, or because you just couldn't be bothered to ask).

Thanks to those who've taken the time to actually reply in a constructive manner, but i don't see much good coming from this thread tbh (take the comment about the fixed knife.. first i'm told to buy a fixed knife (which i already had) then i get told off because they could have gotten something better for cheaper..). Best to let this thread vanish and i'll just do my own thing through trial and error.

I can see a problem straightaway there Rik.... if it were green, you might put it down, forget and then when your heart does go out of rhythm (which lets face it, is inevitable) you won't easily find it. Even in yellow it could be mistaken for a large block of butter. I'd suggest bright pink and perhaps some flashing lights attached to it to make it easier to find.

And i did think it strange that almost every military or outdoors orientated first aid kit to be in a green bag. Personally i'd want it in Fukushima day-glo yellow As high vis as it comes

 

[mrcharly]

Putting the arguing aside, here's what I'd have in a first aid kit:
Roll of micropore tape. Can tape a bad cut back together, hold on a bandage, very useful.
Tick remover
A few plasters because they are just useful.
Some anti-histamine pills. I react to beestings and without anti-histamine might have to abandon a trip because of one sting.
Iodine disinfectant. Not all people are ok with this stuff, but if you are, it is like magic for preventing and dealing with localised infections. I've seen someone nearly die from blood poisoning from relatively minor scratches. No thanks.
A few 50mm square non-stick dressings. Really useful for covering up grazes.
If I were to be messing with hot stuff (ie, campfire, boiling water), then some clingfilm.

Pad dressings can be improvised with clothing - and the non-stick dressings or clingfilm put against a wound to stop dirty clothing fibres getting in.

 

[ESL Jake]

Just a note, you can have all the kit in the world, but if you do not know how to use it- it is USELESS does not matter how much it cost.
A capacity to learn and improvise is the more important.

 

[Quixoticgeek]

And why does cheap have to mean crap? I said it was a cheap compass, i was told to put it back on ebay, despite said cheap compass being the same brand you then tell me to go and buy.. I've not told you the brand, or content etc, yet you read cheap and have no desire to ask what it is exactly but just assume it is therefore crap.

Well given Silva don't make cheap compasses, I'm impressed. Where did you get it from, I would like to get one.

J

 

[Nomad]

Well given Silva don't make cheap compasses, I'm impressed. Where did you get it from, I would like to get one.

Under a tenner in a few places. £7.50 at some online vendor called Outdoor GB (never used 'em - just the lowest price Google threw up).

Sounds pretty cheap to me. (I presume we're all appreciating the difference between cheap and cheerful and cheap and nasty...)

 

[hughlle1]

Perhaps there is also the difference in the definition of cheap. Cheap doesn't mean the same to others. My compass was about 7 quid, what I consider cheap for a compass. It's silly to simply assume that cheap means rubbish if you don't even know what the specifics of the item are. Let alone second hand bargains.

 

[Quixoticgeek]

Under a tenner in a few places. £7.50 at some online vendor called Outdoor GB (never used 'em - just the lowest price Google threw up).

Sounds pretty cheap to me. (I presume we're all appreciating the difference between cheap and cheerful and cheap and nasty...)

I wouldn't call that a cheap compass. You can get baseplate compasses for a couple of quid, but they are largely useless. Just below the tenner mark is where a usable silva compass starts to kick in. A quick search on ebay for "baseplate compass" turns up one for £1.62. another at 99p, and more all around that same price bracket. These are cheap compasses.

I find it interesting how people claim they use their compasses. I use mine a lot when in London, usually when coming out of a tube station to check which way round I am, as it's easy to be slightly disorientated when surfacing...

J

 

[Goatboy]

If I can just stick my oar in from a Mods point of view.
The OP asked in his first post and the title for "input" and it's input you got. There are always going to be differing views on things and folk can dissagree. Have found in life though that if both parties can agree to dissagree nicely then it's all the better. Just 'cause advice is given doesn't mean it has to be taken.
It's all too easy to take offence from comments on the net, sometimes the way things are put or taken aren't the way they were meant. Before flying off the handle and taking umbrage sit back, have a cuppa, read it in a couple of different voices with different punctuations. Don't go getting involved in some flame war or poke the fire with others to stir up trouble.
I will say though that sweeping statements about not bothering about cutting oneself to the bone and not caring do set off alarm bells. It can make older members think that it's not been thought through and that you could end up alone with some bears and a video camera some where. When I was younger I didn't visit the doc much either, I healed and bounced back. But chances are something eventually gets you. You just have to read some of the stories of illness and injury that members have had to know that. No-one wants to see another die or get hurt.
There's been some good advice and a lot of good intention on both sides. Keep it friendly and remember it's supposed to be fun.

Sent via smoke-signal from a woodland in Scotland.

 

[forrestdweller]

the only thing i would suggest changing from the kitlist in post1 would be the hexi stove: the only time i used them was when i found myself dressed in camo and lugging an assault rifle- not voluntarily i hasten to add; i remember them being awfully slow just to heat up some water... . not to mention that they give of a lot of nasty fumes, so only use them in well-ventilated areas. plus i*m not sure if you can light them with a ferro rod...

i would suggest swapping it for a trangia-style stove- plenty of tutorials on the net if you fancy making your own- or a hobo-stove.....

 

[Mozzi]

The phrase "track record" just sounds obnoxious. am I saying ANY of this for MY benefit? hell no. even if we went on an expedition together I'd have a full first aid kit and your lack of one would not really prove too much of a liability as I carry spares. Im saying it because its common bloody sense. And as I said beforehand, I feel a moral obligation to say so if it means that person would be better off.

As for coming on here and thinking you know nothing, you literally word for word told us in the sussex meet thread you know nothing and are a complete beginner. However, even if you were ray bloody mears and made some of the comments you do you'd get the same reaction. the inexperience shows in your words not the fact you've just joined.

As for the fixed blade comment, I didn't see that before, but stick by my original comments, for starting out, and indeed most bushcraft needs, the mora will actually outperform the boar. I borrowed a friends to see if it was three times as good as a mora just incase I had ill informed you btw.

Yes, my posts were harsh, but its still constructive criticism.

You're a truly puzzling individual, however if you REALLY do feel Im not the person you want to spend time with I feel you should know I plan on regularly attending the sussex meets, and that maybe a meet in a different surrounding county ( from london) might be more suitable if you would feel uneasy.

All I say honestly comes through a lot more friendly in person, but the things said don't change. its no good me giving you advice after the fact.

 

[dewi]

I'd have a full first aid kit and your lack of one would not really prove too much of a liability as I carry spares.

Which bit of....

THERE IS A FIRST AID KIT IN HIS INITIAL LIST

have you missed? He has a first aid kit... the first aid kit is there... it is a first aid kit and it is in the initial list.

This is like a Monty Python sketch... its not a dead parrot honest!

 

[Nomad]

The phrase "track record" just sounds obnoxious. am I saying ANY of this for MY benefit? hell no. even if we went on an expedition together I'd have a full first aid kit and your lack of one would not really prove too much of a liability as I carry spares. Im saying it because its common bloody sense. And as I said beforehand, I feel a moral obligation to say so if it means that person would be better off.

As for coming on here and thinking you know nothing, you literally word for word told us in the sussex meet thread you know nothing and are a complete beginner. However, even if you were ray bloody mears and made some of the comments you do you'd get the same reaction. the inexperience shows in your words not the fact you've just joined.

As for the fixed blade comment, I didn't see that before, but stick by my original comments, for starting out, and indeed most bushcraft needs, the mora will actually outperform the boar. I borrowed a friends to see if it was three times as good as a mora just incase I had ill informed you btw.

Yes, my posts were harsh, but its still constructive criticism.

You're a truly puzzling individual, however if you REALLY do feel Im not the person you want to spend time with I feel you should know I plan on regularly attending the sussex meets, and that maybe a meet in a different surrounding county ( from london) might be more suitable if you would feel uneasy.

All I say honestly comes through a lot more friendly in person, but the things said don't change. its no good me giving you advice after the fact.

You come across as arrogant and disrespectful. Even more so when reading in your intro post that you're relatively inexperienced yourself.

 

[mick91]

People you're all missing the primary use of a first aid kit here. Yes you want a couple of plasters, some superglue, burn gel micropore tape and maybe eyewash. But it's mainly a vehicle to hide how many sweets you've stashed! Look in my FAK and you'll find primarily wine gums and jelly tots.
In all fairness I do carry place specific equipment, if I'm going somewhere genuinely dangerous, say fast tides, deep mud and likely fog, I'll happily carry smoke and a flare gun because there's a measured risk. In the summer, yeah suncream is in there. Winter, maybe some disposable hand warmers and a hot flask. Its all about being sensible. To a degree it should also go on experience level, in the same way Ray mears or lofty are lass likely to get into shtuck than I am when doing a simple camp, someone brand new (not saying the OP is) is more likely than me to run into problems they can't deal with. And apart from anything I think I am capable of making judgement on when I'm putting my own safety at needless risk where newer people may assume an activity inherently safe when It isn't.
It also means I don't need a CAT and sutures every time I use an axe or machete, because... Well I'm a grown bottom man and have the ability to judge where my foot is in relation to a swinging blade (that being said I did end up stabbing myself in the shin while peeling taties in my own kitchen )
Let's face it you're probably going to be fine, but it's wise to carry things to fix a genuine problem should it arise if there's a chance it will.

On the fish hook crimping technique, that's literally worse than nothing! I understand probably a joke but people don't do that, pretty extensive tissue damage, it won't hold together, it'll really hurt and you'll find anglers chasing you with landing nets all the way to A&E

 

[copper_head]

Hey Hugh, looks like a good kit list to start out with. Plenty been said in this thread already but thought I'd give you a few recommendations on the stuff you don't have.

bivvy bag - I'd go for the AlpKit Hunka (I have the XL version, but you might be a racing snake)

main torch - I've used a Petzyl Zipka for years but I'd buy myself and AlpKit Gamma when it breaks. Adequate main beam for night walking and nice red/green modes for navigating and general preservation of night vision.

small water proof bags for organising kit e.g washbag, medical bag, tool bag etc (not sure what these would be called when googling) - A couple of dry bags are a good idea, I use one for my first aid kit and another for anything that breaks if it gets wet. If you're planning on using a pack liner you don't need to worry about having everything waterproofed. At risk of sounding like an Alpkit rep here, but I use their mission packs for organising my odds 'n' sods.

waterproof bag liner - Get yourself some rubble sacks.

axe (maybe, not sure if worth spending £80 when i read and hear many people saying they just use the folding saw) - You don't need to spend £80, I use a Husqavarna hatchet. Not an ideal splitter I guess but does just fine splitting down logs for the fire and roughing out spoon blanks.

collapsible bucket/kitchen sink - I have one of the army ones, taken it on a couple of trips for collecting rain water but doesn't see much use. Easy enough to improvise with a billy or empty canteen.

a bag for foraged goods - Plastic carrier bag ?

undecided as to whether i get a sleeping mat. - You should, just as important as sleeping bag for a good nights sleep. The CCF mats are excellent value, indestructible but not that comfy. A thermarest self inflating mat is a good starting point. I usually take a cut down CCF to sit/kneel on and adds a little extra insulation to my thermarest if its cold.