I'm upset and angry and I need to rant!

[Stringmaker]

Apologies to Stringmaker for Hijacking this thread - and my Sympathy for his friend.

As an explanation - It's got to the point where Cats are a very emotive issue for me down to the amount of scat I have to pick up in the garden. I struggle with the concept of feeling it's OK to buy a pet then not know where it is or what it's doing, even where it's doings are. I find it quite selfish and struggle to understand why other people think it's OK - hence I get het up about it. I get even more annoyed when people suggest I should fork out on spending money to try and keep domestic cats off my own land. These cats have owners - the responsibility (and therefore expense) should lie with them.

No apology needed and thanks.

I get what you are saying; in the terms and context you use you could say that cats are not suitable animals as pets because it is inherrent in their behaviour to wander and roam and therefore it is impossible to control where they are. When their presence is unwanted, and their calling card even less so therein lies the problem.

It all stems from us switching from hunter gathering to farming; if the Egyptians hadn't deified the things for protecting their grain we wouldn't be having this debate. Or then again maybe we would; the issue this time wouldn't be domesticated cats but feral ones?

 

[British Red]

Yes I am aware of the toxicity of lilies to cats.

Is this the time of year for them to be flowering?

There are thousands of lily varieties - between them they have a flowering season across most of the Summer. They are horrifically toxic to many species, even with vetinary intervention death is likely. In hot weather they spread pollen thickly and the pollen is toxic.

Sorry to hear you have lost a loved pet - can the vets perform an autopsy and tox' screen? Clearly this could be a case of bad luck with cat roaming or deliberate poisoning. If deliberate, I would suggest its a matter for the police - animal cruelty legislation is there for a reason.

 

[Robbi]

are the lilys toxic to dogs as well ?

 

[Samon]

If your dog craps in public you can get a £500 fine..

It is not cruel to keep a cat indoors. You can do this thing that the dog owners do and take it for a walk, in a controlled and responsible manner. Pet shops sell cat leads and harnesses for this and I feel this should be the law, as it is with dogs.

And regarding the anti-freeze, cats cannot taste 'sweet'. It is the smell that attracts them, their taste buds are very primitive as are their behavior i.e instinct - rather than intelligence.

Again, killing pets is wrong. Simple moral understanding. But I have more sympathy for the people who have to deal with the negative aspect of cats, than those who let their pets roam free.

When I was a boy my pet cat got ran over, I was upset and blamed the old ladies aross the road for feeding her all the time, but infact it was my parents fault for letting the cat out via it's cat flap without even attempting to supervise it. But when our dog got out, we phoned all the local dog homes, vets and the police to find her and the same attitude needs to be adapted to cats, for thier own safety too, not just the mass of creatures they kill every year.

 

[British Red]

are the lilys toxic to dogs as well ?

Not so much - although lily of the valley is an exception - it contains glycosides that can kill dogs

 

[Samon]

Not so much - although lily of the valley is an exception - it contains glycosides that can kill dogs

I believe Lily of the valley is also highly toxic to people too. Sometimes fatal.

 

[Darkwoodecho]

Is it a rural location? do you have a "shoot" in the vicinity? it's "cub" time now and birds are going in pens. I understand anti-freeze has been used against fox cubs, TOTALLY ILLEGAL and reprehensable, way out of order etc. but could it be the cats were not the intended victims?

 

[British Red]

I believe Lily of the valley is also highly toxic to people too. Sometimes fatal.

Yep - contains over 40 different toxins. Mind you when sharing a home brew with my friend (a pathologist) in the garden, he pointed out how many plants, shrubs and trees contained toxins in our gardens....there were quite a few - some you hear about (foxgloves, laburnum) but many ornamentals contain toxins to prevent them or their seeds being eaten (daffodils)

 

[Goatboy]

Not so much - although lily of the valley is an exception - it contains glycosides that can kill dogs

Not just stuff found in the Garden, some of our foods are toxic to cats and dogs, links below: -

• CATS
• DOGS

Funnily enough my dog would eat 'round things like onions and mushrooms in a stew. I then found out they weren't good for him and didn't put them down to him.

 

[Stringmaker]

Is it a rural location? do you have a "shoot" in the vicinity? it's "cub" time now and birds are going in pens. I understand anti-freeze has been used against fox cubs, TOTALLY ILLEGAL and reprehensable, way out of order etc. but could it be the cats were not the intended victims?

It is a rural location but there isn't a game shoot in the immediate vicinity I don't think.

I would ask my friend about lilies but I don't want to upset her any more.

 

[santaman2000]

So cats will just drink antifreeze if they come across it? Despite the taste and smell?

Actually because of the taste and smell (it's sweet to them) And dogs too.

 

[santaman2000]

Cats wander. It's what they do. You can't confine them without being cruel.

Actually I know several friends with perfectly content indoor cats. To the point that they are actually afraid to go outside.

 

[santaman2000]

I thought they can get a taste for it and I've known a couple killed by an unfortunate preference for a winter snoze on a warm landy engine... is it possible they are seeking the sweetness and its not a deliberate poisoning but long term ingestion?......

Maybe but I don't think so. IIRC it's more or less thye same as wood alcohol poisoning.

 

[treadlightly]

Actually I know several friends with perfectly content indoor cats. To the point that they are actually afraid to go outside.

I have known a couple of indoor cats too, it is no life imho. You say they are content but do they have a choice and maybe they are afraid to go out because they were never allowed to.

 

[santaman2000]

I have known a couple of indoor cats too, it is no life imho. You say they are content but do they have a choice and maybe they are afraid to go out because they were never allowed to.

Precisely. They've never been outside and thus have no interest. You can't take a cat that has been an outside cat and change it though.

TBH cats aren't completely domesticated. We simply interfere with their development so that they remain "kittens" in that they still depend on us somewhat. Keeping them indoors is only an extension of that. If you want cats to be completely a they evolved then you'd have to just not keep them as pets at all.

 

[treadlightly]

Precisely. They've never been outside and thus have no interest. You can't take a cat that has been an outside cat and change it though.

TBH cats aren't completely domesticated. We simply interfere with their development so that they remain "kittens" in that they still depend on us somewhat. Keeping them indoors is only an extension of that. If you want cats to be completely a they evolved then you'd have to just not keep them as pets at all.

I take your point but I feel that keeping them indoors all the time is a step too far. The two I have known seemed not to be properly alive somehow, although that could be me letting my disapproval affect my judgment.

 

[British Red]

Not much difference between cats and any other creature really. Ferrets will run loose, chase and kill things given the chance, as will dogs, pet snakes etc. Pet rats will breed up and eat human food, parakeets fly free and have established breeding colonies. Almost any "domestic pet" will roam and kill given the chance - but it is frowned upon to let almost all of them loose.

 

[Goatboy]

Not much difference between cats and any other creature really. Ferrets will run loose, chase and kill things given the chance, as will dogs, pet snakes etc. Pet rats will breed up and eat human food, parakeets fly free and have established breeding colonies. Almost any "domestic pet" will roam and kill given the chance - but it is frowned upon to let almost all of them loose.

But dogs must be kept under control legally.

 

[British Red]

Agreed - its illogical and inconsistent

 

[Nice65]

Much as I agree with the OP, in as much as someones loved pet has been killed and I'm disgusted by that, we've had a few buried "surprises" in the garden. "Hmm, thought we were on chalk not clay ...yuk!!!"

There are other ways

[video]http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uIbkLjjlMV8&desktop_ur i=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DuIbkLjjlMV8[/video]