Fairly soon I may not even be able to give away seeds of old vegetable varieties

[Paul_B]

There was a comment someone made that went along the lines that bought seeds when grown on for seeds which later turn out hybridized can still not be shared for money or not. It made me think along the lines that seed companies kind of want the genes in their seeds recorded as theirs irrespective of their sale or hybridization.

It reminds me of companies trying to patent genes. IIRC there were companies that discovered human genes that have a positive outcome. They patented it despite the fact that it was a natural set of human genes in the public domain if you like. The genes in the seeds are in the public domain so control is hard unless you control the sharing of the seeds. But the genes in the seeds are not theirs. They got paid for any development expenses when the packet was bought. Why should they get a second bite of the cherry?

I'm for trade description for commercial reasons but non-commercial seeds shared by enthusiastic activists should be exempt. Also smaller concerns should not be priced out of the market. I believe there are several pieces of legislation out there that exempt not for profit or small trading companies get relief for other things. Not hard amendment to draft just model it on similar legislation that works for other things.

Rambling and confused argument sorry. Basically I feel the legislation is not completely wrong just badly written/conceived with probably good motives getting subverted in ways that favour certain parties at the expense of others. Perhaps we just need better quality legislators!

 

[Paul_B]

From a selfish point of view, this thread got me reading the posts not just skimming. Made me notice Hillbill's website. Nice knives! Wish I could afford one.

Very sorry for the digression. It's a kind of compliment that the posts have completely captured my attention, doesn't happen often.

 

[daveO]

http://thegoodhuman.com/2013/05/13/monsanto-wins-again-supreme-court-rules-on-soybean-lawsuit/

On a similar theme...

 

[Corso]

I signed the petition against this the other day.

My take is its Monsanto trying to gain a monopoly on food production. They dont want you to have seeds capable of producing viable seed from it. They want us all to grow their "special" seeds which have suicide genes built into them so they cant produce viable seed. Also known as F1 varieties. So you buy new seed every year from them.

indeed

funny that

as far as this bureaucratic BS I wonder how many of our EU cousins will be ignoring it....

roll on 2017...

 

[ReamviThantos]

Monsanto seem like a nice bunch....not!

 

[Goatboy]

It does seem crazy that we allow companies to manufacture F1's with a suicide gene. Look at the trouble countries have had when blockaded during war or natural crisis's cut them off. Why governments allow monocultures of staple crops that are sterile seems strange when they may have to then import in huge amounts of foodstuffs in times of strife is crazy.

 

[Corso]

seems like perfect economic sense to me if I was trying to run the world from the shadows

 

[Headshed]

As someone else said, "I wonder how many of our EU cousins will be ignoring it...", I think in the uk we have a habit of going along with things, sometimes we should just get on with our lives and ignore the idiotic regulations. Sometimes ignorance is bliss, pretend you didn't know and carry on regardless, as we know 'wild camping' is strictly speaking against the law, but most of us still do it!

 

[daveO]

sometimes we should just get on with our lives and ignore the idiotic regulations. Sometimes ignorance is bliss, pretend you didn't know and carry on regardless,

Sadly that attitude has cost the farmer in the article I posted around $85000...

 

[ReamviThantos]

i agree with Headshed, bad laws were meant to be broken. As long as you're not hurting anything or damaging of course.

 

[Paul_B]

Anyone remember the pub landlord comedian who had a catch phrase about too much laws = Germany, too little = France and just about right England? I take that as a good analogy as to what countries in Europe are kind of like. England doesn't want too many rules especially the hashed up compromises from a Europe rife with self interest. Germany has rather a lot of strict rules that are their's and kind of want them spread around. I know this as we could not supply my old company's products into Germany because it had written over strict rules and were strict with them. Then you have France who as a nation feel right at the centre of the Europe project so they sign off on laws that are passed there. They just ignore the ones they don't want. Also they veto anything that might stir up the farmers such as any rationalisation of the CAP.

Anyway. we are where we are and that is a huge mess of a compromise with no cohesion on the enforcement of European regulations and rules. Take the ones for monetary union, IIRC there were something like 5 rules for convergence before joining the Euro. Totally ignored and that is why the Euro is being propped up by Northern European countries and Germany!!!

this seed regulation is just another hash up that messes with people, livelihoods and nature.

 

[Bushy Crafter]

I must admit that I have not read all the posts here, but an interesting documentary on the subject of the global seed market in general can be watched here: http://www.filmsforaction.org/watch/seeds_of_freedom_2012/

Basically, it describes how large corporations have convinced many farmers (Primarily in US/ South America/ India) to switch to genetically modified crops, which have a bad habit of rotting before being able to replant the seeds. They also tell how GM seeds can be patented and how unintentional cross-pollination has cost hundreds of farmers their produce.

 

[santaman2000]

I must admit that I have not read all the posts here, but an interesting documentary on the subject of the global seed market in general can be watched here: http://www.filmsforaction.org/watch/seeds_of_freedom_2012/

Basically, it describes how large corporations have convinced many farmers (Primarily in US/ South America/ India) to switch to genetically modified crops, which have a bad habit of rotting before being able to replant the seeds. They also tell how GM seeds can be patented and how unintentional cross-pollination has cost hundreds of farmers their produce.

It's easier to convince here than one might think. Not neccessarily because they have to convince the "farmers." They're actually somewhat irrelevant in the decision making. They're decision is limited to, "Do I grow a corn crop this year or not?" And that decision is based solely on whether or not they get a contract beforehand to sell it. IF! If they do get such a contract, then the seed is usually provided by the company that contracts them (also a large corporation)

 

[HillBill]

They are modified to have a suicide gene in them which wont let them produce viable seed. Its starting to become clearer why they built this thing now. Bet nothing in here is GM

http://news.nationalgeographic.co.u...702-svalbard-doomsday-seed-vault-food-supply/

I must admit that I have not read all the posts here, but an interesting documentary on the subject of the global seed market in general can be watched here: http://www.filmsforaction.org/watch/seeds_of_freedom_2012/

Basically, it describes how large corporations have convinced many farmers (Primarily in US/ South America/ India) to switch to genetically modified crops, which have a bad habit of rotting before being able to replant the seeds. They also tell how GM seeds can be patented and how unintentional cross-pollination has cost hundreds of farmers their produce.

 

[yarrow]

And there was me thinking Paolo Bacigalupi's "The wind up girl" was a tall tale! Seems not.

 

[Elen Sentier]

seems like perfect economic sense to me if I was trying to run the world from the shadows

Unfortunately I agree, Corso, !!! However, I will be sharing my seeds with all my friends whatever the law says ... Farenheight 451 anybody ???

 

[Angus Og]

Diplomatic cables reveal aggressive GM lobbying by US officials

Review of more than 900 cables reveals campaign to break down resistance to GM products in Europe and other countries.

 

[HillBill]

Whats this referring to mate?

And there was me thinking Paolo Bacigalupi's "The wind up girl" was a tall tale! Seems not.

 

[abominable_scouse_monster]

Whats this referring to mate?

This mate http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Windup-...d=1368620145&sr=8-1&keywords=the+wind+up+girl I have it very cool book, my copy might be ending up in the Classified in the next week.

 

[HillBill]

I meant in relation to the thread topic

This mate http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Windup-...d=1368620145&sr=8-1&keywords=the+wind+up+girl I have it very cool book, my copy might be ending up in the Classified in the next week.