how many of us are first aid trained?

[widu13]

Did my Search and Rescue medics training in the RAF, have done the FaW certificate every four years since about 18 months ago.

As for the ratios I've seen it go through and end up full circle, I first did rescue breaths 13 years ago, seen it dropped, now back - I sometimes think that the changes are there for the sake of change (rolls eyes).

Yep, Resus- first learned cardiac thump, 2 breaths then 30 compressions - 2 breaths, then went 15-2, then 15-1, now 15 BEFORE any breaths and also if there is any fluid no breaths at all!

They are also not teaching cock, hook and look. Remove obvious obstructions but nothing more.

 

[Bush Monkey]

i did a badge in the scouts about a year ago i dunno if that counts...

 

[hippie nixon]

been on a few 1st aid courses all basic (appointed persons)

but every time ive done one they have changed cpr to diffrent ratios.

only had to use it three times all in the same weekend.
worst one was a young lad put his hand in a bag and really badly cut his thumb in a machette cleaned it and rapped it up till he got to hospital ended up with 18 stitches i think it was.

 

[*Big Beast*]

used to teach first aid and oxygen first aid, both have expired now though.

 

[bighead]

Got 1st aid at work, wilderness 1st aid , basic battle field medic in the T.A. and paediatric outdoor 1st aid. Been qualified for over 20yrs with a few incidents along the way. All the discussion on ratios is fine but as long as your keeping the well being of the casulty in focus, breathing, pulse, warmth etc and calm yourself all the rest.is just text in a book.

 

[scott mcmillan]

over the years i have got a number$ of different ones .
problem is most assume you will be handing over to a ambulances crew in 10 to 15min . not pratical in the outdoors.
having been invovled in mountain resque for a number of years. normaly you are on your own for 6 to 12 hours before help turns up

 

[legin]

I did some courses in the Army and Police regarding firearms injuries and those caused in crashes. At the school I have a First Aid at Work cert and will requalify in January. I also did a mountain first aid course for adult leaders in the Duke of Edinburgh Award system.

At school it is usually lads falling over (bruises, grazes and one broken wrist), cutting themselves in technology and illnesses. Having said that, I did recognise one lad had a real problem and called an ambulance. Turned out he had a collapsed lung.

 

[TeeGeeBee]

My last employer made a point of making sure 1st Aid certs were up to date. And paid for training where it was needed. Same with the yearly fire training. I have another two years to run on my present cert. I'm not looking forward to having to actually pay for a renewal.

TGB

 

[MK-MIKE]

got various quals, from first aid at work right through to Trauma Management (IV access, Intubation/LMA's, needle decompression and crico)

Spent many a year with St.Johns in my youth, progressed onto NHS ambulance and then private sector for a while. Also spent several years working as a search and rescue medic.

Quite fancy going on some wilderness specific courses such as WEMT or similar.

 

[jenks]

FAW, HSE Offshore & Norwegian. ALS (RCS of Ed). Just been working in the Atlantic off West Africa, days from the shore or practical assistance. Wish I had access to X-ray and lab sometimes, in fact access to a hospital would have been be nice!

Please check on the validity of any traning you do. If it's underwritten endorsed or recognised by an approved body such as the HSE, a professional college or leads to state registration you'll be alright. Be aware that training providers exist to take your money and some training has no accreditation such as those advertising 'first aid instructor' courses. As a minimum for this you will require a FAW cert and I now believe a recognised teaching qual (example CGLI or Cert Ed) and not a piece of home produced certificate on A4reading 'First Aid Instructor'. Anyone used to be able to set up shop and teach appointed persons but this is being tightened up, and rightly so.

By the way, CPR/BLS chest compressions:ventilations is 30:2 (for either 1 or 2 rescuers) as introduced in 2005. Watch out or potential changes next year from the European Resuscitation Council.

 

[DocDC]

First Aid in bushcraft is not the same as first aid in an office. Resuscitation in the UK is premised on government imposed targets on the ambulance service trusts. Traumatic, medical and environmental emegencies may all require resuscitation and the chances of success using standard Basic Life Support portocols vary depending on the condition being treated at the time. An environmental injury in the presence of trauma requires a modified approach as there are physiological problems associated with treating the casualty using say standard hypothermia protocols. Unconsciousness reduces the threshhold for environmental affects and makes it more likely for those effects to occur, perhaps with debilitating consequences. Most wilderness first aid courses do not address the particular problems of dealing with casualties in these circumstances, and most FAW type courses are taught by persons with little or no experience dealing with casualties for real. Many teach other peoples knowledge and is not always based on best evidence or medical opinion. There are many dilemas when practicing wilderness first aid and the answer is often contrary to standard first aid dogma, for example, to give a casualty a drink or not, or to lean a casualty with a chest injury onto the injured side. In the wilderness it is not just first aid, it is often second aid also, due to the time factor that first aiders need to address.

 

[legin]

By the way, CPR/BLS chest compressions:ventilations is 30:2 (for either 1 or 2 rescuers) as introduced in 2005. Watch out or potential changes next year from the European Resuscitation Council.

Allegedly we'll just be doing chest compressions soon. The theory being that by keeping the pump working, enough air will be dragged into the system to stop everything deteriorating too much and keep the casualty alive. My refresher is the middle of next month, so I'll see if it is coming to pass.

Nigel.

 

[kINGPIN]

I'm first responder, and first aid at work qualified, and trained as a lifeguard when I was younger but that has long expired (although I still remember most of it). Its reassuring to have first aid knowledge for yourself and others.

 

[DocDC]

Allegedly we'll just be doing chest compressions soon. The theory being that by keeping the pump working, enough air will be dragged into the system to stop everything deteriorating too much and keep the casualty alive. My refresher is the middle of next month, so I'll see if it is coming to pass.

Nigel.

This arose from studies conducted in the USA that showed that lay people were very reluctant to do mouth to mouth because of the perceived risk of catching infections. There are a couple of studies that show that you can perform just the compressions for approx 6 minutes before having to do mouth to mouth. Not exactly practical when response times are prolonged or completely unavailable. Remember that the chances of survival from cardiac arrest reduce appox 7% per minute. So if it take 15 minutes for the defibrillator to arrive, its pretty much goodnight Sooty!.

Dave C

 

[Pepperana]

In Holland there is a law that if you have a company that at least 2 employees have first aid.
Its not quite first aid but it covers allot in it. It also covers fire and emergency procedures.
Its like a Company emergency training with first aid in it. I did it last year and it really opened my eyes that I'm no a little capable if there happens something.
Every year you have to do a rehab of 1 day.

 

[DocDC]

See this link for more information on compression only CPR: http://www.resus.org.uk/pages/compCPRs.htm

Allegedly we'll just be doing chest compressions soon. The theory being that by keeping the pump working, enough air will be dragged into the system to stop everything deteriorating too much and keep the casualty alive. My refresher is the middle of next month, so I'll see if it is coming to pass.

Nigel.

 

[Jakata]

I was a member of the red cross for years so I know what I am doing for the most part. Doing the basics again through work soon.

 

[MK-MIKE]

I agree with docDC.

Providing First Aid/Medical care in the wilderness is vastly different to first aid provided in the urban/rural environment that first aid courses taught by the majority (all) of training providers in the UK offer.

Many of the basics need to be ammended.

Triage: Multi casualty triange in the wild needs to be more along military lines than civilian lines (do you tie up all your medical resource on doing CPR on 1 patient, when 3 others may die from bleeding/shock, as without ALS equipment the casualty in arrest is already dead, CPR only buys time, it doesn't re-start the heart)

Resuscitation: (the potential move to compression only CPR would need to be addressed with a view to maintaining both ventilation and compression based CPR as it is likely to administred for more than 8 minutes). Again see triage above, but some expeditions now carry AED's.

Hypothermia management: is very poor on some of the courses I have participated in over the years. Very little discussion on managing the casualty and stabilising prior to moving casualty (unaware of motion induced VF in the hypothermic casualty)

Fracture Management: FAW/Public first aid courses do not cover this as the expectation is that the ambulance will arrive in 20 minutes. Zero discussion on Femoral fracture/ Pelvic fracture and the major risk of internal bleeding, where stabilisation/splinting of the fracture can minimise the 'potential cavity' around the fracture and thereby minimise any internal bleeding.

Medico-Legal Issues: obtaining consent, death in the wilderness, record keeping, drug administration (by non-doctor/Paramedic/Nurse etc). As well as defining 'Wilderness' legally, remember drastic action taken to save a persons life in the 'wilderness' is viewed differently to the same action taken on a street corner/ local woods. How remote DO you need to be from medical care to be classed as in the Wilderness?? In the US, I believe that some (this may be subject to individual state law) Wilderness EMT's are 'licensed' to carry out extended skills only when more than an hour away from civilisation. Indeed paramedics in some states are licensed to carry out additional skills purely due to the remote locations they work in (transport times to the nearest ER by road are well over an hour away)

Telemedicine: Use of radio, satellite phone to gain additional medical advice/assistance

And of course other issues, like do you give the casualty a drink or not?? Kit selection etc.

Ultimately First Aid is mainly common sense, but medical care (and if you are in the wild with a casualty you'll need to go beyond first aid) isn't.

I'd love to see a course that covers these areas and more in detail, because i'd probably go on it

 

[johnnytheboy]

Just done the first aid training for work, seemed abit one two miss a few. Can do CPR and find and artery to stop bleeding though.

 

[Martyn]

Did my Search and Rescue medics training in the RAF, have done the FaW certificate every four years since about 18 months ago.

As for the ratios I've seen it go through and end up full circle, I first did rescue breaths 13 years ago, seen it dropped, now back - I sometimes think that the changes are there for the sake of change (rolls eyes).

The thing to remember is that the resus council try to formulate a protocol for a particular reason. The protocol from 13 years ago, is more than likely just as effective as the current one. The reason for the changes, is not necessarily to formulate an algorithm that will give the patient the absolutely correct treatment and best possible outcome. The protocols evolve to deliver the best possible outcomes, for a general population in a general set of circumstances and are supposed to be complex enough to be effective, but simple enough to be memorable. There is no point constructing BLS/ALS protocols that are perfectly tuned, if they are so complex that nobody can remember them when needed.

The reality is that unless you actually practice BLS/ALS on a regular basis, when the time comes, even someone with a string of certificates is going to fudge their way through it. Even if you have actually done it a number of times, it's still more than likely going to be a fudge, because you are so high, most normal people are just trying to keep it together and avoid going to pieces. Adrenaline is pumping at an alarming rate, you have to keep your head and think. I've seen professionals freeze solid. It can happen to anyone. Complex algorithms just make matters worse, especially if they are so complex that they make people frightened to try.

So the resus council are continually trying to streamline the algorithms to the simplest effective procedure. The only problem with that is it keeps changing and that can leave people feeling like if they are not bang up to date, then they shouldn't do anything for fear of doing it wrong. That's bad.

Just get stuck in. Even if you have only ever seen it on telly, give it a go, nobody is going to tell you off. If you dont try, they'll be dead anyway ...and with a little luck, your out-of-date certificate, or your old fashioned algorithm, or your learned from the telly techniques, might just save a life. That's no substitute for being trained/current/practiced of course, but the most important thing is to try whether you are or not.