HEXAMINE. PLEASE READ!
- Thread starter Rob.L.
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Well, there is some action on this 
Knutsford raid: Man faces acid possession charges after raid
More than 100 homes were evacuated after "unknown substances" were found by police in Knutsford.
www.bbc.co.uk
Well it's bitter cold here today. I've burned off the hexamine tablets, so they're gone.
I didn't have much oxalic acid left anyway, but it's gone too.
Until this is cleared up, I've had a run through that list and the only thing left is the car battery...... and since there are millions of those in the country, I have no idea how they'll deal with that.
Well, there is some action on this
Knutsford raid: Man faces acid possession charges after raid
More than 100 homes were evacuated after "unknown substances" were found by police in Knutsford.www.bbc.co.uk
Seems was on a drugs warrant.
So was he making drugs, or they didn't find drugs at the location and pinched him for the acids.
@Toddy (and anyone else concerned about car batteries)
I really wouldnt take that bit too seriously, they can not realistically ban them (even if they do contain Sulphuric Acid at around 30%w/w)
Even the old ones only needed topped up with distilled water so without breaking the battery open it is hard for most to access the acid itself. Newer batteries are pretty much maintainence free and some are even sealed.
It does however serve to point out how ridiculous some of these new laws are.
I really wouldnt take that bit too seriously, they can not realistically ban them (even if they do contain Sulphuric Acid at around 30%w/w)
Even the old ones only needed topped up with distilled water so without breaking the battery open it is hard for most to access the acid itself. Newer batteries are pretty much maintainence free and some are even sealed.
It does however serve to point out how ridiculous some of these new laws are.
Am guessing you have not watched Breaking Bad then?
Home drug labs using some fairly serious chemicals to produce synthetic drugs cheaper than the street prices etc etc.
Problems arise when professionals do this stuff in controlled lab conditions, now imagine the mayhem that can be caused when addicts are doing this literally in their kitchen in a block of flats.
Not only the risk of explosion and or serious acid burns, but the risk of producing impure and possibly lethal "product" caused by poor measurements and / or momentary lapses of concentration flooding the area with toxic party pills.
On top of all that are environmental concerns when all the used ingredients are poured into the drain.
The utter stupidity of it all , as the law has been written, is that it is just as illegal to have a dozen esbit tablets in a hexi cooker while camping up the glen as it is to have 50litre drums of the stuff in your garage.
This may muddy the waters further, and relates to batteries and acids, specifically: “An EPP licence is not required for batteries supplied with the acid already inside. These are exempt as a filled battery is classified as “specific object”. The exemption is provided by new paragraph 2 (9) (b) of the Poisons Act 1972: A substance or mixture is excluded if … it is contained in a specific object.” So purchase of the substance requires a license, but purchase of an object with the substance as a component is exempt.
It does beg the question that if you brought a filled bottle marked Sulphuric Acid, does it being specified for the storage of acid make it an exempted specific object?
source
And slightly shorter article: Here
It does beg the question that if you brought a filled bottle marked Sulphuric Acid, does it being specified for the storage of acid make it an exempted specific object?
source
And slightly shorter article: Here
I've been looking into oxalic acid as it's used to treat varroa on honey bees. It seems I can own it provided it's a veterinary medicine, which the product I buy is. I've also seen companies require an EPP to buy plain oxalic acid, which makes sense.
But, I've also seen plain oxalic acid sold for non-exempt uses with no mention of an EPP. I shall email a few people and see why.
On a different note, does anyone have an EPP? Seems a bit daft you need to pay for it when an explosive licence is free.
But, I've also seen plain oxalic acid sold for non-exempt uses with no mention of an EPP. I shall email a few people and see why.
On a different note, does anyone have an EPP? Seems a bit daft you need to pay for it when an explosive licence is free.
You say that now, but when a terrorist plot is uncovered to cripple our nation’s infrastructure using lukewarm boil-in-the-bag beef stew and a mug of water that took 7 hours to boil, it won’t seem so daft…
I watched Breaking Bad and I e never had a problem since I put this notice on my garage.
And all that is already covered by legislation. That’s why I think it’s nonsense to have more that attempts criminalise legitimate use. Much like the knife ban bullshit.
Welcome to Finland. Here you can buy it by the kilo.
And Esbit fuel:
Hello again all,
I was aware when I posted this up it would cause some consternation among you and I can see there are some things I need to clarify to prevent confusion.
Firstly, the list as you see it on the Home Office page is real and the ramifications of it are far reaching and quite difficult to take in.
I did notice a few comments which could lead to misunderstanding though so......
1. Sulphuric acid.
Sulphuric acid contained in batteries is legal to possess as long as you don't try to extract it from the battery.
There are some drain cleaners that are 96% sulphuric acid, if you are using it in your professional capacity and have it stored at your business address then you do not need to be licensed. If you have it as a non business member of the public then you do.
2. Elemental Mercury.
If you have a barometer, thermometer, mercury arc rectifier, mercury switch or other scientific instrument that contains Mercury, you do not need a license for that.
If you have a jar of mercury that is 'free' to use and not a part of the aforementioned then you do.
3. Oxalic Acid.
The concentration threshold for oxalic acid under UK law is 10% w/w. You will find that if you make up a solution of say 1kg of oxalic acid and 10 litres of water your oxalic acid powder suddenly becomes lawful. So just make up a solution and your problem is solved.
4. Trioxane.
I myself have a fair bit of trioxane and am not aware of it containing any hexamine at all so as far as I am concerned it is not covered under current law.
Having burned and left packets open I notice there is no sign of the presence of hexamine and the packs evaporate quite quickly leaving only a wax residue.
If someone has the results of lab analysis that proves the presence of hexamine then please let me know!
5. Phosphorus.
The description of phosphorus as yellow or white simply refers to that particular allotrope or form of phosphorus (P4). it's just two names for the same thing.
I notice that in other countries, regulated substances are for sale legally. Please don't attempt to purchase/import without a license as a member of the public. The UK gov. will take a very dim view of it.....
Finally,
I can see that one or two have contacted the Home Office looking for clarification citing other areas of or related segments of law.
All I can tell you is don't waste your time, they are not a law firm and simply cannot offer legal advice. They simply state the law which if you read it carefully is not perfect but pretty clear.
Also please do not post anywhere online if you do have chemicals that you may have concerns over. It's unwise at best and incorrect conclusions may be reached by any party reading it! Don't panic, just be careful.
If it is of any comfort to you it is usually the case that anyone who finds themselves getting prosecuted under any of the new conter-terrorism legislation does so in aggravated circumstances. I have not yet heard of anyone being prosecuted 'just because'. Never say never but currently this seems to be the case. The media love a sensational story but are usually far from the truth.
In my experience the Home Office have always been fair and reasonable but be warned: Don't try to 'cock a snook' at the authorities in these matters or try to set up a business to circumnavigate legislation as you could find yourself in way over your head.
Some of you on here will know me as having lifelong interest in 'all things scientific' and am reasonably well placed in these matters as an amateur with some past work background. I am also a third term license holder from the inception of the new legislation. I am not a legal expert either but do have confirmation of most of this from my communications with the HO.
If you have any genuinely serious concerns I may be able to help. Just ask.
I was aware when I posted this up it would cause some consternation among you and I can see there are some things I need to clarify to prevent confusion.
Firstly, the list as you see it on the Home Office page is real and the ramifications of it are far reaching and quite difficult to take in.
I did notice a few comments which could lead to misunderstanding though so......
1. Sulphuric acid.
Sulphuric acid contained in batteries is legal to possess as long as you don't try to extract it from the battery.
There are some drain cleaners that are 96% sulphuric acid, if you are using it in your professional capacity and have it stored at your business address then you do not need to be licensed. If you have it as a non business member of the public then you do.
2. Elemental Mercury.
If you have a barometer, thermometer, mercury arc rectifier, mercury switch or other scientific instrument that contains Mercury, you do not need a license for that.
If you have a jar of mercury that is 'free' to use and not a part of the aforementioned then you do.
3. Oxalic Acid.
The concentration threshold for oxalic acid under UK law is 10% w/w. You will find that if you make up a solution of say 1kg of oxalic acid and 10 litres of water your oxalic acid powder suddenly becomes lawful. So just make up a solution and your problem is solved.
4. Trioxane.
I myself have a fair bit of trioxane and am not aware of it containing any hexamine at all so as far as I am concerned it is not covered under current law.
Having burned and left packets open I notice there is no sign of the presence of hexamine and the packs evaporate quite quickly leaving only a wax residue.
If someone has the results of lab analysis that proves the presence of hexamine then please let me know!
5. Phosphorus.
The description of phosphorus as yellow or white simply refers to that particular allotrope or form of phosphorus (P4). it's just two names for the same thing.
I notice that in other countries, regulated substances are for sale legally. Please don't attempt to purchase/import without a license as a member of the public. The UK gov. will take a very dim view of it.....
Finally,
I can see that one or two have contacted the Home Office looking for clarification citing other areas of or related segments of law.
All I can tell you is don't waste your time, they are not a law firm and simply cannot offer legal advice. They simply state the law which if you read it carefully is not perfect but pretty clear.
Also please do not post anywhere online if you do have chemicals that you may have concerns over. It's unwise at best and incorrect conclusions may be reached by any party reading it! Don't panic, just be careful.
If it is of any comfort to you it is usually the case that anyone who finds themselves getting prosecuted under any of the new conter-terrorism legislation does so in aggravated circumstances. I have not yet heard of anyone being prosecuted 'just because'. Never say never but currently this seems to be the case. The media love a sensational story but are usually far from the truth.
In my experience the Home Office have always been fair and reasonable but be warned: Don't try to 'cock a snook' at the authorities in these matters or try to set up a business to circumnavigate legislation as you could find yourself in way over your head.
Some of you on here will know me as having lifelong interest in 'all things scientific' and am reasonably well placed in these matters as an amateur with some past work background. I am also a third term license holder from the inception of the new legislation. I am not a legal expert either but do have confirmation of most of this from my communications with the HO.
If you have any genuinely serious concerns I may be able to help. Just ask.
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Well all the Australian "Tommy" stoves are steel, but they rust and wear out pretty quickly anyway, back in my day they were made of a thicker steel but that added excess weight to the pack. Actually we didn't always get issued them when we got our fuel rations doled out, we mainly dug a small hole in the ground and lit the tablets in the hole and set the dixies over that. Although being an Arty Rgt and CMF we seldom did full week-end patrol drills
Yes, mentioning an allotrope is strange as to the more scientifically oriented it fairly clearly means that the other allotropes are allowed.
Yup, but they can be turned into the other allotropes. White into red and vice versa.
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