HEXAMINE. PLEASE READ!

Rob.L.

Member
Sep 1, 2014
21
18
Somerset
Ok folks, that'll be all from me for a bit on this subject as I think we all have enough info to drown in!
please refrain from too much chemical discussion on here as a public forum. This is simply to be circumspect as legit chemical users and not give forum staff a headache or more reason for government to legislate......only takes one to spoil fun! You know what I'm saying.
 

MikeLA

Full Member
May 17, 2011
2,089
399
Northumberland
Well all the Australian "Tommy" stoves are steel, but they rust and wear out pretty quickly anyway, back in my day they were made of a thicker steel but that added excess weight to the pack. Actually we didn't always get issued them when we got our fuel rations doled out, we mainly dug a small hole in the ground and lit the tablets in the hole and set the dixies over that. Although being an Arty Rgt and CMF we seldom did full week-end patrol drills
To be honest we did similar with 3 6inch nails.
 

Rob.L.

Member
Sep 1, 2014
21
18
Somerset
bunch of clowns putting this legislation together. They can jog on.
I don't wish to sound hostile or in any way in support of over draconian laws but the Home Office mean business on this and those found wanting have paid a very heavy price for thinking they have the advantage.
Look up the case of Gert Meyers of Bridlington. He was found In breach of the Poisons Act and the consequences were devastating. The HO tried to communicate with him and cut him a lot of slack to be fair.
 

Falstaff

Forager
Feb 12, 2023
184
83
Berkshire
I've sent the following FoI request to the Home Office to clear up any confusion around this.

Dear Sir/Madam.
I would like to make a Freedom of Information request regarding The Control of Poisons and Explosives Precursors Regulations 2023.

In the above regulations it lists hexamine as being regulated at any concentration and that a licence is required to hold and use any regulated chemical. Hexamine is used extensively to manufacture fuel tablets which are used to provide a heat source to cook meals when camping or to power model steam engines and other similar uses.

Looking at the Poisons act 1972, specifically paragraph 2, (9) b , it states the following:
9)For the purposes of this section, a substance or mixture is “excluded” if—
(a)it is medicinal, or
(b)it is contained in a specific object.
Section 11 defines a specific object is defined as:
11)A “specific object” is—
(a)an object that, during production, is given a special shape, surface or design that determines its function to a greater degree than does its chemical composition, or
(b)an article that contains explosive substances or an explosive mixture of substances designed to produce heat, light, sound, gas or smoke or a combination of such effects through self-sustained exothermic chemical reactions, including—
(i)pyrotechnic equipment falling within the scope of Council Directive 96/98/EC on marine equipment, and
(ii)percussion caps intended specifically for toys falling within the scope of Council Directive 88/378/EEC concerning the safety of toys.

Could you please advise me that, after looking at the Poisons Act 1972, hexamine fuel tablets or similar products could be regarded as a specific object that produces heat through an exothermic reaction, and would therefore be excluded from The Control of Poisons and Explosives Precursors Regulations 2023 and a person would not have to have a licence to purchase, hold or use them.

I am happy for you to answer my question by responding to this email.

Many thanks
Possibly not a good idea to draw their attention to it. The typical and safest answer for them is to say no and and ban something. One of the reasons I didn't fit in with the civil service/NHS/govt. was because I came from private industry where they excpect you to find a way.
I strongly suspect that this latest restriction was the Govt's rushed attempt under MP pressure to convert as much EU into UK law as quickly as possible. Recently they came under fire for drafting driving eyesight restrictions by basically copying a list of eye conditions from a medical document. The Opthalmic industry body pointed out that just about everybody in the UK would fail or require an eye test, and it was quietly amend but not dropped, to save face for the relevant MP/Conservatives.
You may notice that the one only known deterrent for Ticks is Pymethedrine (might have the spelling off) - now cannot be imported n any quantity and is only on sale in small relatively expensive quantities. Not on the offical banned list etc but impossible to get otherwise any amount of it, e.gh. to makle your own spray for bivvys and tents/clothing.
 
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Falstaff

Forager
Feb 12, 2023
184
83
Berkshire
Sounds to me like one of those "doesn't matter until it does" type laws. Basically, whilst it's technically illegal to have something, no-one will bother unless you use that something for serious noortiness.

In my day job (railway compliance) I've noticed that there's a bunch of badly amended legislation, when we left the EU stuff previously covered under European law was transcribed into UK legislation but not always very well...... so you get the rushed amendment to the regs, then the amendment to that and then the third amendment to the second amendment. Brain spinning stuff and you cannot assume the Regulator is much further ahead of you. From what I see of aviation, similar issues there.

I get the impression have a combination of (a) lack of capability and capacity in the civil service for proper tidy legal drafting and (b) politicians wanting to "do something they can be remembered by" and so they come up with something to ban, resulting in badly drafted rushed out changes to Regulations (Regulations receive little if any proper scrutiny compared to primary Acts).

Then back in the real world, I'd be surprised if the local plod doing a routine search knew about the hexamine thing (obviously very different situation if the anti-terrorist bunch raid somewhere, acting on specific intelligence).

GC
spot on sir. However, they have some system for trying to pick up on people trying to purchase larger volumes of anything with explosive or poisonous potential.
 

Robbi

Banned
Mar 1, 2009
10,253
1,046
northern ireland
I don't wish to sound hostile or in any way in support of over draconian laws but the Home Office mean business on this and those found wanting have paid a very heavy price for thinking they have the advantage.
Look up the case of Gert Meyers of Bridlington. He was found In breach of the Poisons Act and the consequences were devastating. The HO tried to communicate with him and cut him a lot of slack to be fair.
Got a link.?
 

Navaja

Tenderfoot
Apr 1, 2016
55
28
Spain/UK
Ok folks, that'll be all from me for a bit on this subject as I think we all have enough info to drown in! please refrain from too much chemical discussion on here as a public forum.


Hexamine tabs can contain Trioxane but trioxane is very volatile.
Trioxane tabs (Vietnam era ish) do not appear to contain Hexamine and are therfore exempt.

So you started the thread going again after a few weeks of inactivity.....

those found wanting have paid a very heavy price for thinking they have the advantage.
Look up the case of Gert Meyers of Bridlington. The HO tried to communicate with him and cut him a lot of slack to be fair.

How is that relevant? He's hardly an innocent is he.....
Not like he was accidentally in possession of some Hexi tablets, I'd understand it if he'd been mistreated.....
 
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Pattree

Full Member
Jul 19, 2023
2,100
1,127
77
UK
I don’t use hexi but I would take the same approach as I do with Opinel knives (lock and 4.5cm blade) or a crossbow:

If a reputable establishment sells it to me and I use it as intended then that’s ok by me.
Is not going to go to court.

I’m referring to bona-fide sellers and users.
If I’m wrong then post the evidence here.
 
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Rob.L.

Member
Sep 1, 2014
21
18
Somerset
So you started the thread going again after a few weeks of inactivity.....



How is that relevant? He's hardly an innocent is he.....
Not like he was accidentally in possession of some Hexi tablets, I'd understand it if he'd been mistreated.....
The point is his company did
So you started the thread going again after a few weeks of inactivity.....



How is that relevant? He's hardly an innocent is he.....
Not like he was accidentally in possession of some Hexi tablets, I'd understand it if he'd been mistreated.....
Because his company status was not legitimate (no planning permission) his very possession of the chemicals became a problem. That's the relevance.
He thought himself his own legal expert and despite repeated attempts by the HO to tell him he needed a license to possess he persisted and fell badly. There is more to this case than published and even the HO page on it has changed with a different account to the one I read a few years back, the emphasis on sale of chemcals seems new and for some reason it says withdrawn?

Usually most cases are aggravated in some way to be this severe in the outcome but the clear black and white of the law says you can be prosecuted and locked up or possibly cautioned at best.

My latest communication with the HO confirms that despite myself being a third term license holder, on the next renewal I will NOT be granted hexamine for use in stoves "As there are safer alternatives"
If anyone wishes to take the chance on whether they will be treated with leniency or severity then its their choice.
 

Falstaff

Forager
Feb 12, 2023
184
83
Berkshire
Safer in what way and to who? A bit like "national security", does not really mean a thing.
Curious sort of circle here, recent info from someone who also happens to be a member on here. Was/Is in the Govt team responsible for keeping up with/getting ahead of unfriendlies inventive ideas for making trouble.
They also like Hexy for camping, but confirmed it has great potential even in small quantitities. Without wishing to draw attention, sale of it has therefore been effectively banned.("Withdrawn") Anybody making concerted attempts to obtain it will draw Govt. attention and scrutiny.
I notice a few other useful chemicals being quietly reduced or withdrawn, and purchases seized by Customs. I understand some household cleaning products have had their formulations changed as well.

We can therefore use up what we have, I wouldn't try to sell it. It is serious, and no longer a little thing. National security means just that, any threat or danger to public or the smooth running of the UK. It is not a matter of personal opinion.
 
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TLM

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Nov 16, 2019
3,227
1,701
Vantaa, Finland
No government makes anything, it is always individuals who do the work and they have agendas and likes.

Yes there probably are some better chemicals for burning than hexamine but in certain ways it is quite handy. By itself it is not dangerous but as a precursor it might be and so are an awful lot of other chemicals. You can't prohibit them all without stopping industries.
 

Falstaff

Forager
Feb 12, 2023
184
83
Berkshire
Provided a genuine firm has a genuine industrial need for something and traceable stock control they will not have a problem getting it/a licence. The governmental intention is to prevent it getting into the retail domestic market.
I agree with you about the individuals and personal agenda on many things, on this one the agenda is very simple and the threat very real.
The other one you will see coming up very fast is the use of acids and alkalis in personal attacks, and risk reduction/prevention measures. The recent headlined incident is one of many. Last week I was with a PCSO in a town centre, and as he was telling me many of the police are carrying bottles of water in the cars because of it, such an incident came over the radio.
 
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