Follow the sheeple or head for the hills?

[Eric_Methven]

Ooooh. Lighten up guys! We all have choices, and I for one would choose to go my own way. We're only talking about a couple of days, three at the most before returning, or finding alternative accommodation. If I had the choice of sleeping, eating and living in a communal temporary school / village hall along with a whole bunch of other people, or taking equipment I've spent years collecting, and years learning how to use properly to a location that I feel a lot more comfortable with then I'd choose the latter.

OK, I'd inform the authorities of my intentions. But there's no way I'd voluntarily add to their burden of care when I didn't need to.

The word sheeple was coined shortly before Y2K in America to describe the masses who'd follow each other around looking for leadership when tragedy strikes. It is a generic term now used for people who just follow when ordered without thinking of the outcome or consequences. It does not include the disabled, poor, disadvantaged or any minority group, unless members of the aforementioned have a similar mindset - and that's what sheeple are, individuals with a specific mindset.

These are individual choices and these choices may differ in other circumstances. If the emergency were a fire risk or explosion, I'd go to the school for a while (with my rucksack) and only go bushcrafting if I knew I wasn't getting back into my house until the following day or later. Even then, I'd let the authorities know what I was planning and take it from there.

Some of us do fantasise about how we would react in any given disaster scenario, so what? I like to fantasise, about lots of stuff. It's fun. Call me nuts if you like but I say again, fantasising and planning for emergency situations makes me feel safer. Certainly safer than relying on my local authority's emergency management team to pull me from the mire. I have contingency plans for all sorts of scenarios. Some are fun to plan but very unlikely to manifest themselves, and others are more likely. Some I have planned to execute alone and other more likely and serious situations are planned with community and neighbourhood watch in mind. There's nowt wrong with being prepared and it doesn't make me a doom sayer either. Also please don't imagine for one moment that I wish for anything bad to happen just so I can live out my fantasy. I'm fifty six years old with arthritic knees and I just don't need the hassle. I might not even survive a bad situation, but it won't be for the lack of trying.

Good responses so far folks, keep em coming.

Eric

 

[Squidders]

Sorry Eric... it's not you but I just saw this also...

"However, you are a bushcrafter and as all good bushcrafters, you have a half decent grab bag by the back door."

I don't have one... I mean, if I were on a boat, I'd have a grab bag / ditch kit... but my buscraft is planned and on my own terms. I dislike the implication that i'm the opposite of a good bushcrafter (I don't know what that actually is) because I don't have a grab bag.

I know you're a good bloke and didn't have any kind of venom when you posted but you presented one option with the word bushcraft and painted a nice picture about a nice few nights under a tarp with a fire and another with an insulting name and visions of being trapped in a hall... a little social engineering and of course the majority of people are going to say "oooh bushcraft for sure!"

I think the reality is that most people will have a miserable night under canvas while is tips down with rain worrying about their house and possessions and (I would hope) that everyone they know in the street is ok, dry and safe.

In my fantasies, I am using my good health, ability and knowledge to perhaps help others in any way I can. My bushcraft can always wait when others may need me.

I'm also thinking about all the poor sods who are, as we type, removed from their homes and really suffering and thinking this post is a little soon and even unintentionally, a little "un british".

Joe

 

[Tengu]

I dont think a scenario like katrina would happen in GB anyway.

Nor any european country...we tend to look after people here.

I asked my Ghanan friend whether it would happen in Ghana, and she told me no. She said that when there was severe floods their president mobilised the army and was first to go help in person. They did not have much resources but everybody helped out.

In a GB scenario it would be best to go to the school...and take your bug out bag.

(I dont have a bug out bag in the house, but I do have one in the car)

 

[EdS]

tell them to sod off as they can not force to evacuate your house. But you can do them for tresspass. All they can do is tell you they will not come to your aid. An I'd most likely be at work in that situation - Env Health you see.

Me I'm most likely go to the pub.

Really of the 2 I'd head to the hills, but packing stuff in the canoe and waiting would be very tempting. Plus the Landy will chug along in 5" of water now the snorkle is all sorted.

 

[Twoflower]

Now that i've thought about this (whilst walking down to the shops and back in the pouring rain)... I don't have a grab bag so I'd use the few minutes given to chuck my usual weekend stuff into a rucksack and moving valuables upstairs (only take a minute cos I don't have many valuables).

I'd then go along to the school hall and let them know that i'll be throwing a tarp/tent up outside so as not to take up room that would be better suited for folks not used to being outdoors over night. I'd sort my sleeping arrangements out and then go offer any help to local folks that is needed.

If it was to look like a few days would be spent out doors i'd probably move further away from the school hall (The local schools here all have woods within their boundries) but still close enough that I could be of assistance if needed and sit it out using my own supplies, once again leaving provided stuff for those more in need.

 

[born2roam]

Hi list,

Got a mixed idea/answer on this poll as most people do.

Given all the "ifs" (only for three days, enough equipment etc.), going out on your own and survive the ordeal in solitude was my primary reaction.

My second reaction came quickly. After running away from a certain wave on Boxing day while in Thailand (yep, the tsunami), I did almost grab my bag and headed out.

I decided to stay and help out. Not to bring more complications, fear etc for those at the homefront, the military and other forces.

YOU "know" that you can stay out there and survive. But many of us will probably have a hard time truly surviving it. This is where we have a thin line between or should I say connection: bushcraft vrs survival.

Even if YOU know it, how convincing can you be towards the 'authorities' that you will be ok or that you will take full responsibility.....

Anyway, to make it a bit shorter and to keep the discussion going, yes a true solo bushcrafting survival week would still be my primary reaction (given the parameters)...but what if... ;-)

Grtz Johan

PS: Be glad that you got a warning that a flood was coming... I got stuck around sept/okt 2005 in a very tiny and out of the way village in Guatemala for about 5 days due to floods brought on by hurricane Stan. I SWEAR I did not have anything to do with all those forces Mother Nature brought to those places. No bushcrafty place at that time btw ;-)

 

[demographic]

Neither, Its been pissing down for days and I have a van.

Where do you think I am going to kip?

 

[fredcraft]

To be honest, I think I'd go where to police told me to, but I'd pack some kit before boarding the bus that I know would be handy if there were a shortage at the school.

Most of the communities where floods are probable are usualy well prepared to face the situation and things are rarely chaotic (except when the disaster is really huge). I would only go on my own when I would realize that there is no knowledgable authority is in control and that I'd be safer on my own than with the crowd (and as many people here, I'm not a fan of crowds).

 

[Northern Giant UK]

Hmmn, so you don't have a pack set up ready to go?. . .I do!, I find it easier to have my gear ready to go and it's contents regularly reviewed as for what needs replacing etc it's also a good way to find the best way to pack and to know exactly where each bit of kit is when you need it.

The idea of the thread is (I would assume) to get an idea of what others might do given a particular scenario and to bring out both good points and bad so that a possible best coarse of action might be found.

I don't see any problem with heading for the hills given this scenario providing you have the knowledge and equipment to do so and what better situation would there be to actually put this bushcrafting to use?

Yes the local authorities would have to be informed that you were dealing with your own problems and that you would be ok as to not do so would put search crews/rescuers at potential risk not to mention that they would be better used elsewhere, but by not following the rest to the school you would not be using their resources which would be better used for others.

As for not wanting to get into this because their are people going thru it right now . . .I know what it's like . . .I was born and raised in Grimsby (one of the places that is currently flooded) and they are to an extent used to it. On the west marsh Grimsby (I wonder how it got that name) the electrical wall sockets in houses are half way up the walls because of the flood risk. If councils build on reclaimed marsh land and or floodplain then it will flood . . .it isn't our fault. (wow turned out almost like a rant . . s.o.r.r.y.)

As to me. . .It would depend on the local specific dangers and population but I would most likely head to the hills (they're loverly lol) after informing the authorities what I was doing and who would be with me (which leads on to the others who tagged along . .they would be a problem to me and the rescue teams) There is always a wind up AM/FM/SW radio in my pack so I could keep up on what's going on plus the wife carries a mobile, I also carry a wind up lantern (so no battery probs here).

Where I'd go I doubt others would follow but if they did I'd do my best to get them under shelter and warm them up, but it would then be a case of inform the authorities that they were ok and find somewhere for them to go (supplies etc would not stretch for such large a number).

BTW what exactly is un-British about not wanting to be herded into a school like cattle (I couldn't wait to leave school, I wouldn't fancy a long stay in one)

Kev

 

[dwardo]

Sorry squidderz i agree with Eric whilst i dont have a bag near the front door however there is one at the back door/garage with all my kit and im not talking about a big bag labelled "END OF THE WORLD" but usually just my usual bushy kit.
I cant imagine Eric turning down help to anyone and i also dont see that he would be daft enough to not let everyone know he and others were safe (mentioned mobile phone comms etc) I think this thread does need to lighten up a little but hey thats only my opinion and we all have one.....

Votes seems to learn towards self help also, not desertion just not complete reliance.

 

[Mike Ameling]

Just my humble opinion, but I would do whatever I could to keep out of a "refugee" situation.

Once you join the people in a relocation camp or building, you are then totally under the control of the people officially running the camp/building or the unofficial groups within it. You turn yourself and your family over to them, and most won't let you leave without their approval. They then "own" you for as long as they want to keep you. You then eat, sleep, live, or die at their whim.

Most situations turn out OK - some don't - and a few turn horribly ugly/bad.

Most also control what you can bring into the relocation/refugee camp/building. They will search you and your gear - and confiscate anything that might be considered a weapon. And they will probably also appropriate any food/beverages to "share" with everybody else. And way too often, some of those in control make sure their "share" always is larger and comes first.

During troubled times, the "good" in people tends to come through. But the "bad" in some people also pushes to the forefront. And the "authorities" cannot be everywhere to control those "bad" elements, or save all those who cannot take simple steps to save themselves. The "victim" metality has taken deep root in modern society.

So I personally would do everything I could to stay out of a relocation/refugee camp/building - and look to assisting my family and friends to do the same.

Just my humble thoughts to share. And I know of what I speak from prior experience.

Mikey - already out in the Hinterlands

 

[British Red]

Squidders,

I also agree with Eric - its not a bad thing to talk about really. My friends are one of those flooded out right now - living room under what came up through the sewers. They are also members of the forum here as it happens (Greywolf, Stitch, Hawthorn and family). Through a considered response to the threat (moving valuables, sentimental items etc. to upstairs, protecting important documents, isolating the electricity and gas etc.) they managed to minimise the damage. They also maanged to take with them clothes, toileteries, money, sleeping kit etc. As well as shelter in case that could not be found (as it couldn't for many in Katrina for example). Sensible things like water filters etc. may have been useful too.

I draw a large distinction between being a "doomsayer" and taking practical steps to protect yourself, your family and your property. In all these situations (I had friends in Boscastle and a number of other areas that ahve suffered similar problems), it does take the services a while to respond and their efforts should be focussed on the vulnerable and needy. By being a little self reliant we can assist with that. I do agree letting people know your plans is important, but being put into a shelter isn't. Without wanting to be in any way political, I absolutely believe our emergency services are...wonderful, brave, underfunded and ill equipped to deal with large sudden domestic emergencies. If with a little planning and foresight I can look after myself and my family and not be reliant on being "bailed out" then I think that helps everyone.

Good Hotel Room £100
Meal For Two (with wine) £50
Not sleeping on a camp bed Priceless..for everything else - theres Mastercard!

Red

 

[xylaria]

In Britain when you are evacuated the authorities don't want you to sleep in rescue centre unless you can't help it.

They want you to say you are safe and then go somewhere safe without burdening them.

You are not rounded up with rifles, and sent to the football ground to fend off gangstas with your bare hands.

We will end up in the mother in laws garden. We will also volunteer to help others. This is not a fantasy. Three months ago we and neighbors de-silted the courtyard. Group effort but it has meant the lady next door hasn't flooded this year. We could of sat there and waited for the council to do it, but we didn't because we wanted the job done, not be swimming in flood water.

Thinking about others pays off. This tone of this thread has made me wonder just how capable some poeple would be in proper situation.

My sympathies go out those effected.

 

[Eric_Methven]

This tone of this thread has made me wonder just how capable some people would be in proper situation.

Must say it's made me wonder too. I tend to assume (wrongly) that everyone's idea of bushcraft is the same as my own, but it seems not. To some it seems to merely be a form of camping with spoon carving (or whatever) thrown in as an afterthought. I'll have to try and stop making assumptions. Each to his own, and each to his own comfort level in extreme circumstances.

Eric

 

[EdS]

Guess I'd organise them into seperate working parties give them small simple jobs with goals they can achieve, wood collecting, toilet digging etc - make them feel they done something worth while to keep thier spirits up and get a brew on.

If you strat ordering people around they soon become uncontrolable. Explain what needs doing and why.


to be honest we few neighbours, the local steem does break its banks form time to time. And if it was that bad I'd have more to worry about as a) in deal withd rainage for Env Health so I'd be too busy and b) my house is in the middle of one of the UK's larger sewage works so a dam would the least of the worries.

 

[xylaria]

The mother-in-law has a washing machine to wash the sewage water out the children clothes if needs be. Thinking about other people is a survival trait, so is planning for realistic situations that your family may face. It is fine for a healthy adults to go on camping trips to hills, rather than help out in disasters, but it is just a bit selfish in my opinion. It is fine for others to sit in the woods in rain whittling spoons, but i would prefer to help out. I don't think this makes me a wussy bushcrafter just a realist. Just I wouldn't say people that are caught up in flooding are whinging victims, and squidders was right to say what he said.

A sense of humour is also important.

 

[Lodian]

The thing is what if you have family? Or stay next to a lot of elderly people i undertand that noone would want be cramped in a school.

 

[Womble]

I'd be at the school, and I'd be volunteering to help. That's what a comunity is for - right?

It seems to me that that this has little to do with bushcraft (or spooncarve camping as I shall now call it ) and everything to do with how people view theirs' and others' positions in society. If the position was reversed, wouldn't you like them to be helping you?

 

[Squidders]

After an almost unlimited supply of threads unable to decide what bushcraft actually is, I suspect its one of the rare times we're either all right or all wrong...

Either way, following sheeple and doing the same thing as them are 2 completely different things... I try not to be an overly proud person when it comes to a crisis and care more about others than my own personal comfort.

The question, as I understand it was not are you a good conforming bushcrafter but rather, would you go bushcrafting or do something else.

I am perfectly happy with my ability to survive in comfort, stay dry, stay warm, watered and fed in good conditions or very bad ones... in the scenario presented, I decided that I would not head up to the hills for a spot of bushcraft.

This is not an indicator of anything other than preference... Nobody should be made to feel they are inadequate because they don't fancy going off to the woods.

We each have our idea of bushcraft, some are more practical than others and some of us are luckier than others because we are able to get out there and practice skills and be comfortable with the more wild places.

I know some poor sods have only their back yard to mess about in because of simple availability of land or permission to use it but that doesn't mean they're not practicing skills in all weathers or being prepared.

Being prepared in a broad sense is a good thing, I prefer to keep it general because it may not be a flood, it may be a bomb, chemical hazard, plague of man eating weevils or anything... I try to keep my preperation general so I don't try to plan for too much... adding things like shark repellant just incase of such and such.

My plans have never involved running to the hills and going in to grub eating survival mode when I am at home... maybe I already spend lots of time in the woods... I don't know why, but it's never factored in to my plans even though I have thought about it before.

I do camp out and make the odd spoon... i'm a camper and a woodworker... i'm also a utility company because I purify water, a pyromaniac because I love starting fires, a magpie because I like the shiny things, a construction company because I build shelters and many many other things. If it helps, i'm happy not to be called a bushcrafter.... but the bush crafts do interest me.

 

[British Red]

I'm interested in the form of practical help that people here would offer. bearing in mind that they themselves have been flooded out and would likely have little "material" to offer. I assume that there would be adequate medical facilities and catering facilities so, whilst volunteering to help is of course laudable, I assume that "volunteering" implies there are some solid necessities or skills that the authorities could not provide. What do people think they would be?

Red