Follow the sheeple or head for the hills?

[spamel]

Well, I'm still in date on my anthrax jabs, so if they're gonna do it, can they do it before the end of July please?!!

I worked at the Brazda refugee camp in Macedonia in 1999. It was shocking to see the tired, injured, raped, emotionally scarred people entering the camp from Kosovo, many leaving murdered relatives behind. A sytem had to be put in to place to help these people though, and our regiment took one side of the camp to feed, clothe and shelter, and a field hospital was set up to look after the many injured people.

I'd say 99.9% of the displaced refugees acted in a selfless way throughout, some even stayed with us to aid in translations without a thought of the danger they may be putting themselves in or asking for any reward. I only ever saw one person try to push into a queue, which would often stretch for 500 metres. The guy had been through just recently and had said he had 4 children and a wife, he was now back for more and didn't care that others had waited for hours.

I completely flipped out and dragged him to the back of the queue whilst a translator told all of the people that he had pushed in and was literally taking their food and clothing. I probably shouldn't have reacted quite as I did, but I saw the unfairness and greediness in this man that i pretty much detest, he argued with me but I left him without any doubt that that sort of behaviour was not tolerated at our aid post.

If any of you remember the video clips from Brazda, a lot of them show the Italian and American troops throwing bundles of food off of the back of a truck into a baying crowd of refugees. Not the way to do it. This is where the true nature of people is seen, compounded by fear of hunger if they don't grab something quick, desperation and sometimes greed. The american troops came to our aid post as they heard ours was the best on the camp, and people working in other refugee camps in the surrounding areas came to see how we ran our aid post. We set the standard that others followed, and a fairer system of handing out supplies to give everybody a chance of getting something.

 

[British Red]

Good post Doc - couldn't agree more. Stay put (although clearly not in a flodding situation that this threat is about), and have the good sense to be able to live comfortably for a few days.

Xylaria, I'm not quite sure where you are coming from, you will volunteer, but not to those who don't show a "modicum of social behaviour", you think there are "diamonds amongst coal"...but you will bug out...????


Oh as for " I have never heard of a rescue situation in the UK where the people being helped have vandalised there own power supply" I have witnessed fire engines being stoned and petrol bombed by people who lived in the buildings that were on fire.

Sleep in a school with that sort? No ta

Red

 

[combatblade1]

I dont have a grab bag either but i do have a decent 70 l ruck and it only takes a minute to fill it. I dont think the quote of, "However, you are a bushcrafter and as all good bushcrafters, you have a half decent grab bag by the back door." Was meant to offend anyone or make anyone who dosent have a grab bag by their back door feel like a bad bushcrafter, the same as this quote, I'm also thinking about all the poor sods who are, as we type, removed from their homes and really suffering and thinking this post is a little soon and even unintentionally, a little "un british". i dont think is meant to make people who are not British feel left out. I think its a good poll and it shouldnt be read into to much the wrong way, i dont believe their is anyone in BCUK who would want any harm to come to anyone in a disaster and i firmly believe all would do their damdest to help and use their skills to help in any way they could, lets just relax and keep the poll light hearted!

 

[Tadpole]

Oh as for " I have never heard of a rescue situation in the UK where the people being helped have vandalised there own power supply" I have witnessed fire engines being stoned and petrol bombed by people who lived in the buildings that were on fire.

Sleep in a school with that sort? No ta

Red

I have seen the best and worst of man’s desperation, I worked in St Pauls, during the in 1980, when the riots happened, (spent the night hiding under my desk) as rioters stoned the police and the inhabitants stoned the ambulances carrying both injured police and injured locals. Again in 1992 when local people objected to scummy local thieves being arrested for stealing a police bike. That time the locals destroyed their own community.
Nothing people do surprises me anymore, tales of water “barons” and “rape gangs” in the sport complex’s in the wake of Katrina, of police men abandoning their posts and others settling old scores. Ok that was an extreme situation, but I’ve attended people who collapsed in public shopping centres that have been robbed as they have
‘grand mal’ seizures. I’m not saying every ‘event’ would be like that, I’m just not willing to take that chance.
Being prepared does not mean that you are preparing for the worst, it just means that you have the wherewithal, not to make a bad thing any worse. In preparing for the worse, you can make it not happen. If half of the people flooded out had taken just half a day to make even a DVD with all their paperwork or just scanned copies of house deeds, medical history, passport documents, bank details, family pictures. Any and all paperwork that make living in the modern world possible/comfortable, add it to a bag with medicine that you need, and you chance a life destroying situation in to difficult but not impossible one. Something to make a brew some rat pack food, a warm coat for everyone, a Tarp to keep you dry.

Breaking down on the motorway sucks, especially when you have your family with you, what would you rather do, sit in the pouring rain with a hand full of screaming kids waiting for an hour or two for the recovery man to rescue you, or shelter under a well sited tarp drinking hot tea/coffee, munching on biscuits Brown. (Knowing that between 63 and 113 people die each year after their vehicle was hit whilst parked/broken down on the hard shoulder of the motorway and that is whyAll UK traffic organisations tell drivers the same thing DO NOT stay IN your vehicle if you break down on the motorway. )

 

[JohnC]

I'd like to think that members of this forum would be helping out. appropriately, in their local areas. But the idea of being ready to leave and be self reliant for 72 hours has some merit. There are a lot of people here who would not be a "burden" in the sense that they would be prepared to rough it, and contribute as well as not using scare resources. I feel mindset is an advantage in the scenario outlined. I've heard the term "sheeple" before and have always taken it to be the unprepared, (who could be better prepared) but will rely (or regard it their right) on the goverment or someone else to supply their needs.

 

[Eric_Methven]

SHEEPLE

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sheeple is a term of disparagement, a portmanteau created by combining the words "sheep" and "people"; a reference to herd mentality. It is often used to denote persons who acquiesce to authority, and thus undermine their own human individuality. The implication of sheeple is that as a collective, people believe whatever they are told, without processing it to be sure that it is an accurate representation of the real world around them. The term is generally used in a political or religious sense.

The label seems to have originated among conspiracy theorists in the United States of a far right political persuasion. The Wall Street Journal first reported the label in print in 1984, where its reporter encountered the word used by the proprietor of an American Opinion bookstore affiliated with the John Birch Society. In this usage, taxpayers were derided for their perceived blind conformity, as opposed to the conspiracy theorists and tax protesters who thought independently. "Sheeple" are people who pay their taxes and accept what the government and the mass media tell them. A piece of folk poetry circulating among conspiracy theorists puts this usage in a nutshell:

Oh yes, I am a sheeple, and oh so proud to be.
I am way too smart to believe in a conspiracy.

Acceptance of government intrusion and regulation is another hallmark of the "sheeple" according to those who use the epithet. The Guardian reported that an Alaskan reacted to news of a survey that said that "four out of five Americans . . . would give up some freedoms for greater security" by labelling this majority as "sheeple". In a column entitled A Nation of Sheeple, columnist Walter E. Williams writes that "Americans sheepishly accepted all sorts of Transportation Security Administration nonsense. In the name of security, we've allowed fingernail clippers, eyeglass screwdrivers and toy soldiers to be taken from us prior to boarding a plane."

Common usage also applies the term to devoutly religious people, particularly Christians; however, it is also used to describe devout members of any religious persuasion, and perhaps its particular application to Christianity is a combination of the fact that Christians are the majority religion in the Americas and Europe where the term is commonly used, and the fact that Christians describe themselves as a "flock" and Christ as a "shepherd."

In political usage, it can be used to refer to a member of any political party, and is especially applied to those who take a hard party line stance or who are especially trusting of any politician.

However, the term is also used more broadly to describe any person who the speaker feels is exceedingly conformist, including members of consumer culture and popular culture at large.

The term has also come to be used to describe hoplophobes and other similar persons - people with an illogical fear of weapons, fire, cars, machinery etc, and certain other things such as men in camouflage or ethnic minorities. In this sense it is used particularly amongst gun and knife enthusiasts.

 

[Carcajou Garou]

Definatly would go out on my own with my family (family first and foremost), we do have a BoB each. Adding to that we do have specific destinations depending on season, weather, nature of the emergency you can't prepare in depth for all things but you can be realistic. Was in charge of a preparedness group that my company put together, really opened my eyes. As far as helping neighbours..doing that now with anyone who needs or wants help. On the trail..will help out any to the limit it does'nt hurt my family. We have had ice storms, power outages, floods, tornados, service interuptions etc.. we do help each but I will not deny my family because someone else neglected to prepare his/hers.
As far as relying on credit cards, debit cards and other forms of electronic "cash" or any electronic messaging/communication systems, in any emergency to "buy" "secure" "contact" "keeping in touch" etc... well best of luck.
We rely on ourselves mostly (along with friends), I don't look to the government for help.
I guess it helps not to have had an effectice social safety net, to develop our independence.
As others have mentioned self generating radios, lamps as well as extra batteries is the norm.
Eric you are on the money

 

[Goose]

What is to say that your help would be acccepted at any "refugee centre"?
Unless you have a role or specific qualification you will be herded like the rest, the people running it will have their own plan(even if it is a bad one!) and you will upset the applecart.
The organisers will want sheeple, who will just go where told and sit quietly until it is over. Remember a lot of the people who will be put in charge probably have only done paper exersizes before, the chance to be in charge and hold a lot of power can turn people into really bad power freaks, someone not toeing the line will not be popular. Your offers of help could be seen as a threat to the authority and someone who may(or may not?) know what they are doing will be seen as a threat to the authority not a help. Remember too about how litagatious our society has become, the "authority", even if they are comfortable with the power they hold, may not want to risk an unknown or unqualified person helping as they may be liable if something goes wrong, you may know wat you are doing but how do they know that?

BTW I think sheeple is an excellent term, especially watching coach parties on holiday getting herded in and out of buildings on and off the bus . If I visit somewhere with my family I may find something that will keep me interested for hours and the next place only holds my interest for seconds, sheeple just follow the crowd and have their 30 minutes a stop like it or not .

 

[gregorach]

Man, I'm glad I live on the fourth floor, on high ground, in a hilly city... By the time I needed to evacuate, there wouldn't be anywhere left to evacuate to.

 

[w00dsmoke]

I'd definately bug out. I'm lucky it's not gonna happen to me as I'm on top of a hill but if I was in Erics senario I'd do the same as him and bug out.

Let's face it, most of us should have already identified places to go incase of any disaster, if we havn't well I'm taken aback to be honest. The only time I was ever stuck was in the petrol crisis a few years ago, I could not travel between home and work a 90 mile round trip so I ended up living in the woods near work to save on petrol as the strike made it impossible to buy any. I coped fine for 4 or 5 days. My main concern is water supply as I don't as yet have an identified water purifier to treat large volumes of water that my family would need if we went wild. (a hand pump just won't do!)

 

[stuart m]

You are all wrong... Head over to spain for few days

 

[falling rain]

BTW I think sheeple is an excellent term, especially watching coach parties on holiday getting herded in and out of buildings on and off the bus . If I visit somewhere with my family I may find something that will keep me interested for hours and the next place only holds my interest for seconds, sheeple just follow the crowd and have their 30 minutes a stop like it or not .[/QUOTE]

I agree Goose. We did our own thing when we went to Egypt a few years ago and the tour rep said we were the only ones she hadn't seen all week. There were people getting rushed around and herded at all the sites and had no time to leisurely look at anything. We took all the time we wanted and spent as much or as little time as we wanted at each place. We even saw things that the groups would never have seen like buriels in sides of mountains and lots of smaller 'off the beaten track stuff' shown to us by one of the locals - not the english tour guide. Excellent stuff.

 

[British Red]

You are all wrong... Head over to spain for few days

Aaah the voice of experience.

You know it says to keep your big sharpening wheel wet stu? I think they meant a bit less that that

Red

 

[Eric_Methven]

I agree Goose. We did our own thing when we went to Egypt a few years ago and the tour rep said we were the only ones she hadn't seen all week. There were people getting rushed around and herded at all the sites and had no time to leisurely look at anything. We took all the time we wanted and spent as much or as little time as we wanted at each place. We even saw things that the groups would never have seen like buriels in sides of mountains and lots of smaller 'off the beaten track stuff' shown to us by one of the locals - not the english tour guide. Excellent stuff.

Yep, I can't be doin' the package tour thing. It bores me senseless. When I go abroad I like to learn a bit of the language beforehand, at least a few words to show people I'm making an effort. They usually respond in English or we have fun trying to communicate in sign language of some sort, or drawing little pictures.

Often I've ended up laughing, rolling on the floor with locals in some small village because of the roundabout way a conversation has gone. It often results in being invited to dinner at someone's house as well. That's how I get to see the real country, not the tourist version.
I remember once trying to ask where I could buy yeast to make bread. I didn't know the word for yeast but did know the word for bread. So there was I saying bread and throwing my arms up and out like making the bread rise. They thought I wanted to buy exploding bread and I got some funny looks. When we finally got round to an understanding and they understood I wanted yeast, they were all rolling on the ground in laughter, tears streaming down their faces, and I was laughing uncontrollably with them. Anyway, the short answer was no, there was nowhere I could buy yeast as it was half day closing. One of the locals indicated I should follow him and we all (the whole village by now) trooped along to his place where his mother offered me some yeast from her pantry. She couldn't believe I could make bread and invited me in to use her table and bread oven. I felt it might be an insult to accept the yeast but refuse her hospitality, so I accepted and made myself a couple of crusty loaves and some bread buns. I also baked a batch for the family by way of thanks and they were over the moon. I stayed with them for over a week and in all that time none of them communicated in English and I managed to sign my way through most things. I also taught them some long forgotten woodcraft skills. They had some really old treen on display and saw me admiring it. I asked who made it and got the message that whoever it was was long gone and they didn't know how to replicate the items any more. I recognised the techniques (pole lathe) and knocked one up in a day and the next day had them all turning stuff for themselves. I also showed them how to create fire by friction which was once again a long forgotten skill in their village.

Anyway, I digress. My point was that not being a sheeple, I was able to learn more about the place in a week than I would have in a year of package tours. I made some good friends and the best bit was they wouldn't take a penny from me even though they were dirt poor.

I also tend to go minimalist as far as clothes go, and buy local. Less chance of getting mugged if you don't look like a head swiveller and I'm supporting the local economy.

Eric

 

[falling rain]

We were invited to a village by some locals too. They were very nice people and gave us food which we ate outside on a rug. They showed us around the village and gave us a bag of limes, and showed us tombs of people that had been buried in the sides of the mountains. You could shine your torch in and see these mummified bodies on rock ledges.
They also took us to a place were there were rocks that when split open revealed the powder pigment used by the ancient egyptians for their paintings. There was red - yellow - blue. I also found fossils of sea shells god knows how old but it's been along time since there was sea over the desert where we were - great stuff, and you don't get any of that by going with the others on 'THE TOUR'
I did give a little money to the chap who showed us all these things. He spent the best part of the day with us and didn't ask for anything, but they are poor people and I insisted on it. I gave his son my head torch a petzl tikka which he was absolutely over the moon with. Very simple folk.

Oh and we went up in a hot air balloon over the valley of the kings and valley of the queens, in Luxor It was my birthday treat and it was fantastic.

 

[Tengu]

You sounded as if you had a great time.

Im not one for travel, (never had the money) but id like to do it that way.

 

[scoops_uk]

Bit of a late comer to this thread. :umbrella:

One point of Eric's that I strongly agree with is to have a plan. Thinking through situations and having strategies in mind is a proven survival technique. Plans are tools to be used.

You might have planned for waterworld, and it's just a local flood, but having planned to do a simple thing like sticking important documents upstairs before leaving the house could have a major impact later on. Your plan might not get as far as needing the canoe in the loft but that's ok, plan for the worst case and then implement it as appropriate.

Planning is fun, it exercises your mind, teaches you to think and could save your life.

Head for the hills/follow the sheeple? What about being on the Emergency Response Team

Scoops

 

[Goose]

Head for the hills/follow the sheeple? What about being on the Emergency Response Team

Scoops

If I was in an area that had Mountain/cave/fell rescue or lifeboats I would try and get involved. I live in an urban area and if there are response teams around here I wouldn't have a clue where they are recruited from, time would be an issue too but it is something I would do if I could but what,who, where???

 

[Eric_Methven]

Bit of a late comer to this thread. :umbrella:
Head for the hills/follow the sheeple? What about being on the Emergency Response Team
Scoops

I reckon that's probably fine for singles, but I'd be out there helping people when the very people I care about most would be having to fend for themselves. Sounds a bit selfish I know, but me and mine come first, every time. I've done my bit for queen and country in the military so now it's time for seeing to my family. I will not be an additional burden on the ERT's, but I won't join them while my wife, daughter and grandkids rely on me to see them right. Sincere respect to the men and women who do though.

Scoops, maybe you could tell us what's involved in getting involved. There may be some on here who'd volunteer.

Eric

 

[spamel]

I reckon that's probably fine for singles, but I'd be out there helping people when the very people I care about most would be having to fend for themselves. Sounds a bit selfish I know, but me and mine come first, every time. I've done my bit for queen and country in the military so now it's time for seeing to my family. I will not be an additional burden on the ERT's, but I won't join them while my wife, daughter and grandkids rely on me to see them right. Sincere respect to the men and women who do though.

Eric

Couldn't agree more Eric. My kids and wife come first. The dog second!

PS. I don't have a dog!