Fear of the dark

[zarkwon]

Poignancy over reality, yeah, everytime in cases like that. I don't believe in ghosts either, but I may be wrong and I'm open to that very very small possibility. Should you be afraid of the dark.. no, but be afraid of the possibilities that the dark creates, as that is when the bad, the nutty and the criminal come out and our main sense is impaired significantly.

I'm one of the most rational people alive, and have used those skills to investigate scenes and incidents on a professional basis. I have a scientific mind that evaluates facts available to come to a logical and pragmatic conclusion. The paranormal has never ever come into it. All the more reason why that incident freaked me out considerably.

I can't put you in my mind to see and hear what I heard, so you can't understand what you don't have access to. But very occasionally things cannot be understood because what we have seen or heard has not been explained in science or rationality, or is above our current understanding or technology.

Weird stuff that cannot be explained does happen, and some people will choose to look to the paranormal as an explanation, while some other people who are equally confused will write it off as having a rational explanation, but don't know what that is yet. There are also some folks that will not choose either of those options as they believe it is neither. We simply cannot prove or disprove any of those beliefs at the moment, and science will probably offer some explanation in 20/30 or 100 years, that to our minds now, is just as unbelievable as the paranormal is to me now.

Your point seems to be that there are things we cannot explain. Certainly this is true and may it always be so. My point is that the least fantastical explanation should be chosen in these cases (Occam's razor). If the choice is between some failure on my part to come to a rational conclusion or the overturning of the entire body of scientific understanding then I'm going with the "I'm a numbnuts hypothesis". If I don't know then I don't know and just making stuff up without recourse to evidence isn't going to help and is in fact more likely to mislead me.

 

[JonathanD]

Your point seems to be that there are things we cannot explain. Certainly this is true and may it always be so. My point is that the least fantastical explanation should be chosen in these cases (Occam's razor). If the choice is between some failure on my part to come to a rational conclusion or the overturning of the entire body of scientific understanding then I'm going with the "I'm a numbnuts hypothesis". If I don't know then I don't know and just making stuff up without recourse to evidence isn't going to help and is in fact more likely to mislead me.

Quite true, but then in reality we also cannot trust anybody's evidence as it is their point of view and they may have a strong bias towards a belief or even a mental problem affecting assessment they may be unaware of. In the same vein, we also should not rule out our own brains ability to deceive, as it is quite capable of doing that on many levels (especially with self inflicted inducements).

All you can do is weigh up the evidence and eliminate possibilities, that's all any of us can do. Some people believe in God and some of us believe in science and evolution, so you will get numerous posibilities based on facts, belief and person. You are like me with a scientific mind and aproach to evidence. I know how the universe works and how atoms are constructed and work to build what we see around us etc, but a huge amount of intelligent people think that that is as much twaddle as we think the paranormal is.

The story about the swans is a nice heartwarming story that was poignant and a very real warm moment for the poster. In cases like that, it is just nice to share in that rather than pointing out the obvious realities of the situation.

 

[zarkwon]

Quite true, but then in reality we also cannot trust anybody's evidence as it is their point of view and they may have a strong bias towards a belief or even a mental problem affecting assessment they may be unaware of. In the same vein, we also should not rule out our own brains ability to deceive, as it is quite capable of doing that on many levels (especially with self inflicted inducements).

All you can do is weigh up the evidence and eliminate possibilities, that's all any of us can do. Some people believe in God and some of us believe in science and evolution, so you will get numerous posibilities based on facts, belief and person. You are like me with a scientific mind and aproach to evidence. I know how the universe works and how atoms are constructed and work to build what we see around us etc, but a huge amount of intelligent people think that that is as much twaddle as we think the paranormal is.

The story about the swans is a nice heartwarming story that was poignant and a very real warm moment for the poster. In cases like that, it is just nice to share in that rather than pointing out the obvious realities of the situation.

Well it may have been a little indelicate of me however I was appraising it in the spirit of the thread. Of course I sympathise with the poster however I prefer to say what I think and do not subscribe to the view that delusions are harmless crutches, even in sadness.

I disagree that there are a great number of intelligent people (and certainly not the intellectually honest) who believe in the supernatural. The body of scientific evidence interlaces, supports and reconfirms itself via peer review. Where answers are unknown or conflict, we say so. That some think it is twaddle is neither here nor there. The multicultural idea that all opinions are equally valid is hogwash. The important thing is that we revise our theories according to falsifying evidence. There is no coherent theory of the supernatural. The intellectual somersaults one needs to perform to believe in ghosts or gods these days are quite spectacular.

 

[JonathanD]

I disagree that there are a great number of intelligent people (and certainly not the intellectually honest) who believe in the supernatural.

Now there I have to disagree. My mother is unfortunately one of those people (so be careful how you reply to this as you'll be insulting my mommy ). My mother is very intelligent, member of Mensa 178 IQ (yeah, intelligence doesn't count for common sense either), but she has that in abundance too. Now science is her thing as she was a forensic scientist until she retired recently, saw death aplenty and the stone cold facts related to death. She 100% believes in ghosts. Yeah, it confuses and annoys me too. I don't. So whats going on?

I do agree about the intellectualy honest though as I can tune in to Living at any time and see people play out a role to get the audiences in.

I love the unexplained stories on this thread, and it's the ones that happen to people like you and leave you standing there open mouthed muttering "what the ****" that grabs peoples attention. I hope you experience it one day as it is the most frustrating thing ever to work out how something like that can happen in science and reality.

 

[Hedgehog]

Moral; Cherish what little time you have with your loved one's as there not going to be here forever.

regards,Jordan

Yes indeed.

Very moving Jordan, a lovely way to remember too.

Reminds me of the song thrush that belted out it's song over my unkles grave as we buried him. Beautiful hapenstance.

 

[Hedgehog]

Science is not likely to explain everything any time soon.

Science is a faith based methodology (maybe as much as any other).

*runs & hides*

 

[zarkwon]

I hope you experience it one day as it is the most frustrating thing ever to work out how something like that can happen in science and reality.

Until that day then.

 

[zarkwon]

Science is not likely to explain everything any time soon.

Science is a faith based methodology (maybe as much as any other).

*runs & hides*

He, he. You'd better. If I might direct you to some bedtime reading whilst you go off and hibernate. http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=54978 Seems to be a lot of this about at the moment. Must be the rain keeping folks indoors. Long and short is that science will not explain everything but it is the best tool we have of explaining anything because without recourse to evidence based, peer reviewed testing you're just making stuff up. Invisible pink unicorn hunting anyone?

 

[Hedgehog]

He, he. You'd better. If I might direct you to some bedtime reading whilst you go off and hibernate. http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=54978 Seems to be a lot of this about at the moment. Must be the rain keeping folks indoors. Long and short is that science will not explain everything but it is the best tool we have of explaining anything because without recourse to evidence based, peer reviewed testing you're just making stuff up. Invisible pink unicorn hunting anyone?

Indeed, I know - just a shame most science is only looking for what it is sent to find by commercial interests.

Peers look after each other too. okenest:

Now where did I put my little pink unicorn

 

[Hedgehog]

...can't be scared of the dark with a little pink unicorn to play with.

 

[gowersponger]

i can get on with people from all walks of life,i dont understand half the words you men are useing here, but i do a lot of ouija boards and things and have had very very strange things happen,but if you dont belive you have a spirit thats fine with me but i dont no why the non belivers have a problem with the belivers,,that nearly confused me

 

[zarkwon]

Indeed, I know - just a shame most science is only looking for what it is sent to find by commercial interests.

I bet you don't catch many unicorns in the woods with such obvious baiting techniques.

Peers look after each other too. okenest:

Not so. There is nothing a scientist relishes more than proving a peer wrong.

 

[nuggets]

my unicorns !!

walking through the woods

 

[Hedgehog]

Each to their own here, Faith of any kind, suspension of disbelief etc. are all survival tools in essence.

Whatever gets you through the night eh.

 

[zarkwon]

i can get on with people from all walks of life,i dont understand half the words you men are useing here, but i do a lot of ouija boards and things and have had very very strange things happen,but if you dont belive you have a spirit thats fine with me but i dont no why the non belivers have a problem with the belivers,,that nearly confused me

In brief, because the believers not only want everyone else to believe too (try living in the dark ages or Afganistan with your views. The church may be pathetic now but when it was powerful (it still is in some countries) you bent the knee or else) but claim special exemption from equality laws (faith schools, no sex ed, abortion) and are more susceptible to men trying to get them to fly planes into buildings because they don't require evidence for their beliefs. Also because we care about truth.okenest:

 

[zarkwon]

my unicorns !!

walking through the woods

Lol.

 

[Hedgehog]

Not so. There is nothing a scientist relishes more than proving a peer wrong.

Indeed but they still rely on a shared system, in witch to joust if you will. I guess it depends weather or not our perception is limited &/or dictated by the physical structure of our brain...


hmmm...


...let's move on to quantify right & wrong shall we?


Without nihilism, there would be nothing.

 

[zarkwon]

Indeed but they still rely on a shared system, in witch to joust if you will. I guess it depends weather or not our perception is limited &/or dictated by the physical structure of our brain...


hmmm...

I'm struggling to think what else it might be limited or dictated by. There is only the material.

...let's move on to quantify right & wrong shall we?

Right or wrong? What have our social conventions of right and wrong got to do with it? Accepted or unaccepted, now there is something we can use.

 

[Hedgehog]

EEEP! Semantics.



*heads for leaf pile & rolls up*

 

[Hedgehog]

Oh cripes.

Women & children first!