Fear of the dark

horsevad

Tenderfoot
Oct 22, 2009
92
1
Denmark
I haven't solved the mystery as it is utterly impossible to move without noise or hide anywhere quickly without making massive amounts of noise in the spot where I camp. The footprints are from another time and you can't get into the stream without making a noise either, as the bank is a four foot sheer drop. It's difficult to reiterate exactly how the area is impossible to move around without noise in the daytime let alone night, and the time it took me to vacate the tent and look around with my PNGs would mean that whoever it was would have to move at speed, to get into the balsam to hide. You just can't walk through six foot himalayan balsam without it making great whopping amounts of noise underfoot. The place is like a swamp with rotting dead branches and twigs everywhere. The only path into teh area is the one I made, and if that was used, the blsam that I flattened is underfoot and makes noise however you tread on it. This is what is weird and freaks me out slightly. Again, I wish Dave was online so he can confirm what I'm saying.

the only explanation I can think of is some underground hole concealed very cleverly in some way. Body sized 'graves' like this appear in other areas of the woods, but it means that I had been camping almost on top of this trap door and whoever was in it would have been there all the time. That is freaky, but short of the person flying in, that is the only explanation.

No need to confirm. I have no doubt to belive you.

Himalayan Balsam is Impatiens Glandulifera, right? In that case I know the plant and the thick brush it can create.

From your description I have a little theory. I might not be able to substantiate the theory with hard facts, but it fits your description...

Are you familiar with the cult-like teachings of an weird american tracking instructor named Tom Brown?

Some of his teachings actually involve digging such observation ditches (as you mentioned) and laying totally camouflaged in there.

If some mentally unbalanced person - with a previous knowledge of such "tracker" techniques - were to consider that particular area as his "personal" training ground, then your presence could be construed as invasive - which (in the mind of a disturbed individual) could be not only justifing but also demaning some kind of action.

A suggestion: Get one of the cheap IR-capable camcorders or "trailcams", and position it (concealed) at the side of some of his tracks. You just might be able to gather a little bit of intel about that particular person!

//Kim Horsevad
 

JonathanD

Ophiological Genius
Sep 3, 2004
12,815
1,511
Stourton,UK
No need to confirm. I have no doubt to belive you.

Himalayan Balsam is Impatiens Glandulifera, right? In that case I know the plant and the thick brush it can create.

From your description I have a little theory. I might not be able to substantiate the theory with hard facts, but it fits your description...

Are you familiar with the cult-like teachings of an weird american tracking instructor named Tom Brown?

Some of his teachings actually involve digging such observation ditches (as you mentioned) and laying totally camouflaged in there.

If some mentally unbalanced person - with a previous knowledge of such "tracker" techniques - were to consider that particular area as his "personal" training ground, then your presence could be construed as invasive - which (in the mind of a disturbed individual) could be not only justifing but also demaning some kind of action.

A suggestion: Get one of the cheap IR-capable camcorders or "trailcams", and position it (concealed) at the side of some of his tracks. You just might be able to gather a little bit of intel about that particular person!

//Kim Horsevad

I think we may be onto something here with this explanation. The evidence around the area does back it up and if that is the case, then I'm certainly not returning there for an all nighter by myself. I will go back in the day though and do a more thorough tracking session.

It's all very annoying, as it's a cracking secluded place and I like watching the otters at night.
 

Shewie

Mod
Mod
Dec 15, 2005
24,259
26
49
Yorkshire
Could the noise be the balsam seed pods exploding and landing on your tent JD ?

There's a patch near where I walk and if I knock the heads with a stick then they pop seeds everywhere.
 
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horsevad

Tenderfoot
Oct 22, 2009
92
1
Denmark
I think we may be onto something here with this explanation. The evidence around the area does back it up and if that is the case, then I'm certainly not returning there for an all nighter by myself. I will go back in the day though and do a more thorough tracking session.

It's all very annoying, as it's a cracking secluded place and I like watching the otters at night.


If this theory is correct, be very aware of what you are stepping at, or leaning your weight against, during that daytime tracking session. Some of Browns books and teachings shows many of the same traps as Ragnar Benson describes in his "mantracking" book. I think Bensons book can be found online - the illustrations therein might give some insight as to what to be specifically aware of. Bensons desciptions are better that Browns, but some of these traps are truly wicked and evil creations...

Good Luck! I wish I was closer to Britan (lives in Denmark). I would like to do some kind of night stalking training in that area!

//Kim Horsevad

Edited to add: Even fact that the unidentified person is walking barefooted fits in this theory. Some of Browns teachings are actually to abandon modern sturdy boots and walk in moccasins or even barefooted.
 
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Miyagi

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Aug 6, 2008
2,298
5
South Queensferry
Solo camping doesn't scare me per se, but there's always something that'll "spook" you if you're in your own wee busy world at the campfire etc.

As I take the dog with me these days he's good on stag - too good actually - as he is alert at every sound and smell, giving me no peace at times.

A couple of things un-nerves me when he's with me in the cuds though. If something has tingled his "spidey senses" and he's doing the Pointer nose thing and you say to him "Go See!" - he bloody hides behind you trying to get his head under your armpit. Useless Mutt.

If he does head off into the dark for a deek (after saying the magic word "Rabbits") 9/10 he'll appear beside you with no warning - made me jump a couple of times.

I have to confess though. There is one thing when solo/wild camping that would totally un-nerve me;

Hillbill turning up and doing a Power Point presentation of his theories...
 

Big Geordie

Nomad
Jul 17, 2005
416
4
72
Bonny Scotland
Another one, but not likely to happen here unless you believe in all those big cat stories.
I was working in Nevada. Went camping by myself in a canyon overlooking some major desert. I was told that the mountain lions were way over the other side of the mountain.
I woke up at 4 am and heard a lot of snuffling as something proceeded to sniff its way round my tent.
I was freaked. I kept telling myself it was just a dog, but my knife stayed in my hand till I was brave enough to get out and look about 8 am. I didn't waste any time, I drove all the way into town, had breakfast with girlfriend and borrowed her 22 pist*l. I got back early evening and it started to snow.
I snuggled back up and went to sleep, with the gun to hand. Again about 4 I woke up with a shock, snuffling and sniffing around the site again. I sat with the pist*l cocked for what seemed hours.
In the daylight I saw a set of wild cat prints. That did it for me. packed up, went straight to girlfriend who laughed at the prospect of me shooting a hole through my tent, putting a hole in my foot.
Learned a lot that night.
G
 

rommy

Forager
Jun 4, 2010
122
0
Hull, East Yorkshire.
I'll bet that if you continue to camp there that the activities will escalate. I would think that the next thing to happen would be that something belonging to you will be stolen. You are being tested, he will pit his skills against yours.
 

Miyagi

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Aug 6, 2008
2,298
5
South Queensferry
Another one, but not likely to happen here unless you believe in all those big cat stories.
I was working in Nevada. Went camping by myself in a canyon overlooking some major desert. I was told that the mountain lions were way over the other side of the mountain.
I woke up at 4 am and heard a lot of snuffling as something proceeded to sniff its way round my tent.
I was freaked. I kept telling myself it was just a dog, but my knife stayed in my hand till I was brave enough to get out and look about 8 am. I didn't waste any time, I drove all the way into town, had breakfast with girlfriend and borrowed her 22 pist*l. I got back early evening and it started to snow.
I snuggled back up and went to sleep, with the gun to hand. Again about 4 I woke up with a shock, snuffling and sniffing around the site again. I sat with the pist*l cocked for what seemed hours.
In the daylight I saw a set of wild cat prints. That did it for me. packed up, went straight to girlfriend who laughed at the prospect of me shooting a hole through my tent, putting a hole in my foot.
Learned a lot that night.
G

A .22 pistol against a big cat Geordie?

Were you going to club it between the eyes as it chewed you? ;)
 

kennyboy

Member
Jul 15, 2009
41
0
N.Ireland
It's all very annoying, as it's a cracking secluded place and I like watching the otters at night.

Maybe someone else feels the same way as you?
In a misguided way they think they are protecting the site/otters from this interloper(you).
there's nothin' as strange as folk!
 

1234

Tenderfoot
Dec 9, 2009
95
0
england
@ jonathand

i read the story about the hand on your tent
could it have been bats, if you think about it they have 5 points (tip of 3rd finger, thumb, then nose, then another thumb followed by another third finger tip) it might have flew into your tent, couldn't get grip and slid down the fabric, then flew off
they wouldn't disturb the ground, make next to nothing noise wise etc

oh and the foot print could be a bare boot runner, it would explain all the prints with only the ball of the foot, if you run bare foot you quickly adopt fore foot striking ( hill striking cause to much damage when running bare foot)
and the full size print is when they've walked to catch their breath :D

anyway there just thoughts, i haven't read all the posts so apologies if they have already been said
atb
dean
 
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JonathanD

Ophiological Genius
Sep 3, 2004
12,815
1,511
Stourton,UK
Could the noise be the balsam seed pods exploding and landing on your tent JD ?

There's a patch near where I walk and if I knock the heads with a stick then they pop seeds everywhere.

No mate, this wasn't a light drifting thing down the tent, it was a deliberate slow scrape from top to bottom, you could see the finger impressions throgh the inner no se um netting.

@ jonathand

i read the story about the hand on your tent
could it have been bats, if you think about it they have 5 points (tip of 3rd finger, thumb, then nose, then another thumb followed by another third finger tip) it might have flew into your tent, couldn't get grip and slid down the fabric, then flew off
they wouldn't disturb the ground, make next to nothing noise wise etc

oh and the foot print could be a bare boot runner, it would explain all the prints with only the ball of the foot, if you run bare foot you quickly adopt fore foot striking ( hill striking cause to much damage when running bare foot)
and the full size print is when they've walked to catch their breath :D

anyway there just thoughts, i haven't read all the posts so apologies if they have already been said
atb
dean

Deffo not bats, this was deliberate and with force behind it. It wasn't a jogger either as that was on a riverbank, you can't jog in that area, it's like a rainforest. Also people don't jog on all fours in rivers. If I was to describe the tracks it would appear to be the person was moving stealthily and exhibiting or mimcking animal behaviours and movement.
 
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JonathanD

Ophiological Genius
Sep 3, 2004
12,815
1,511
Stourton,UK
If this theory is correct, be very aware of what you are stepping at, or leaning your weight against, during that daytime tracking session. Some of Browns books and teachings shows many of the same traps as Ragnar Benson describes in his "mantracking" book. I think Bensons book can be found online - the illustrations therein might give some insight as to what to be specifically aware of. Bensons desciptions are better that Browns, but some of these traps are truly wicked and evil creations...

Good Luck! I wish I was closer to Britan (lives in Denmark). I would like to do some kind of night stalking training in that area!

//Kim Horsevad

Edited to add: Even fact that the unidentified person is walking barefooted fits in this theory. Some of Browns teachings are actually to abandon modern sturdy boots and walk in moccasins or even barefooted.

I agree with you. I bet whoever this person is, he has a copy of The Hunted on DVD and carries a Tom Brown Tracker. This thought has occurred to me more than once over the last couple of years. I watched the Hunted a few months back and the beginning immediately struck me as being a very similar thing to the activities in that area.

I'll bet that if you continue to camp there that the activities will escalate. I would think that the next thing to happen would be that something belonging to you will be stolen. You are being tested, he will pit his skills against yours.

Well, there's a very good couple of reasons for not camping there again... alone anyway. Whoever this person is, they are obviously quite skilled, but they could have done alot worse than scraping their hand down my tent. The trailcam idea is a cracking one, but I'll have to conceal it very well without leaving sign, which may prove a challenge.

Maybe someone else feels the same way as you?
In a misguided way they think they are protecting the site/otters from this interloper(you).
there's nothin' as strange as folk!

Could be, I've no doubt that before all this happened, I have been observed at length and I've been visiting there for years, so they should know that I'm no threat to the area or animals. Still, some people have strange views about rights and take things personally. I've got the day off on Thursday, so will go down in the afternoon and scout around. I'll take lots of pics and keep you all informed.
 

JonathanD

Ophiological Genius
Sep 3, 2004
12,815
1,511
Stourton,UK
Are there any trees in the vicinity and did you look up?
Rather than run off through the scrub, he/she could've just hoiked themselves up into the nearest tree.

For less than a tenner, if you got one of those cheapy fishing bite alarms and some fishing line, you could set up an intruder alert.
Something like that http://www.anytackle.co.uk/fishing_tackle_item.php?category_id=66&product_id=2532

There was one tree that I was under, yeah, I did look up, very carefully. Nowt.

The balsam acts as the best natural intruder alert, it really is noisy. Unfortunately though, as you an see from the latest posts, I have the sneaky feeling that they were already camped under my camp.
 

pango

Nomad
Feb 10, 2009
380
6
70
Fife
Jonathan, I can understand your intrigue with the situation you've described. My instinct would be that it was either a territorial thing or someone who knows you playing a slightly malicious prank, or both! I'd be interested to know if you've seen any signs that someone else uses or camps at the same spot.

Jimford earlier mentioned Ben Macdhui, well known for the story of a British army officer in the 20's who went onto the mountain armed with an army revolver and took two shots at a huge grey man who was following him... I'd be more concerned about the state of mind of the army officer so closely following WWI. The problems arise when you discover that the eminent Scottish mountaineer, Professor Norman Collie reported being followed by a similar phenomenon in 1889. Collie was not a man you'd describe a fanciful, but rather a dour, hard man and respected academic and mountaineer.

The summit of Macdhui is not a place I'd want to camp. It's desolate and there's nothing to burn, whereas there are two bothies within easy enough striking distance and welcoming pine woods less than an hour away. I will say that there is an almost tangible atmosphere on Macdhui at times, and not a welcoming one. I have encountered a number of places, where I've had the feeling that no-one invited me there, as though I was intruding. I do believe that there are certain places which carry some sort of memory, sometimes almost menacing but sometimes comforting.

As examples, looking for a camping spot at the western end of Glen Lyon late one June evening and coming across a small "house" with an array of dumb-bell shaped stones of diminishing sizes arranged at the door. The hackles stood up on my neck and I promptly departed. I found a suitable place beside a burn a few miles away and camped there for the night. In the morning I noticed a cairn a few hundred yards away and remember checking it out. It wasn't until after I got home that I found out the cairn was in memory of a young C15th. woman who had been killed when trying to prevent slaughter between the locals and cattle raiders.

I spent the night fishing for sea trout at a sweeping bend on the River Ettrick once. I the morning I took a couple of fish to the owner of the house I’d rented for the week. He asked me where I’d been fishing and told me the locals didn’t fish there at night, as Jamie the 6th ordered 300 Borderers to be drowned there.

This is Scotland and there is nowhere bad things haven’t happened! And the Scots never needed the English when it came to butchery. We were always more than capable between ourselves!

As for the little "house", I've been there since and am reluctant to say how old I think it might be. The stewardship was taken over by the head keeper of the estate after the previous steward died at a ripe old age. The stones (in fact, waisted glacial/alluvial stones representing the old woman, her husband and their children) are taken out at Beltane (end March) and returned to the house at Sabhain (end October). There were originally 11 or 12 of them I think, but some of the stones have been stolen recently. It might be Neolithic! This is in Gleann Cailliche (Glen of the Old Woman), the "house is known as Tigh na Cailliche/Bodach, and there is an ancient rhyme about the place. Check out Grid Ref; NN 3804 4271

In contrast, I visited a hill behind my ex-wife’s parents farm after reading that an iron age settlement had been discovered there by the Cambridge Aerial Survey in the 1970’s. I asked her 80 year old Grandfather, who after being puzzled for a minute said, “Oh, the auld steading? I used to play up there when I was a bairn! I always fancied the folk up there came down and built the farm in safer times!” So much for academia!

What I discovered was a circular outer wall, 60 metres dia, door facing S E, and 3 hut circles inside, door also S E facing, the whole hill being defended by dyke and ditch systems. When walking out of the main gate, a path was visible going straight downhill to a dyke and ditch cut straight across the hill. There were 5 stepping stones across the ditch. My lasting memory is of the sensation that this was a happy place. You could easily imagine the voices of children playing!

I have left a remote highland bothy in the small hours to go out into the rain to put up a tent because of the clattering and banging that was going on. I couldn’t only hear these noises but could feel the vibrations through the floorboards. Doors banging, drumming on the walls and the sound of hob-nailed boots in the room I was in. After erecting my tent, I went back for my sleeping bag and brewing kit but felt real fear only when I put my hand onto the doorknob and decided I’d pushed it far enough. Fortunately, I had my hill jacket and lay in the tent trying to keep warm for the rest of the night. That was almost 30 years ago and I still have no rational explanation.

A friend of mine, a typically dour Scottish hill-man and not one to frighten easily, told me of a night in a tent where he woke up hearing loud breathing, he described it as being like a cow breathing. He got out of the tent and looked around a couple of times but saw nothing, although when he returned to the tent continued hearing this heavy breathing which persisted all night. He couldn’t remember whether the sound continued when he was outside the tent, but did say he lay clutching his knife but didn’t sleep a wink.

Another mate tells a story of sitting in a highland bothy alone one night when he was terrified by the sudden appearance of a white face at the window. He sat watching the window, as you do, until the face eventually appeared again. It turned out to be a white garron, a horse used by the keepers to bring stags back down off the hill. These things are sent to test us!

I put the tent up once beside a highland lochan and got off onto the hill. Looking down an hour later I could see a big, black, fish-like shape which I slowly became aware was moving slowly around the lochan. I watched it for a while, then moved off puzzling as to what it might be. Returning some hours later though and looking down onto the loch I decided that superstition and cowardice was the healthy option and decided to shift venues. I returned a few days later, determine to find out what the giant fish shape was... tadpoles! A million of them!

After being told of an approaching Atlantic storm, I retreated to Sourlies bothy at the head of Loch Nevis in the belief that it would be sheltered from the worst of the weather. Wrong again!
That night, I thought the roof was sure to come off. The wind sounded like a train passing. The door kept blowing open and I eventually went outside and found a boulder big enough to stand behind the door. At some point in the night I heard the door scraping and banging again and got out of bed to push the boulder back into place. I closed the door with one hand to see a dark looming figure behind the door.
OH SHA HOOR! I screamed at the ghost.
AH YA BESTIRT! The bothy ghost yelled back.
“Jesus, I thought you were a bothy ghost.”, said I.
“Does a bothy ghost smell like it’s sh!t itself, like?”, replied the bothy ghost.

If our pleasure is to go into remote, wild places, often with a long history of human occupation, we must go with an open mind, prepared and thankful for whatever surprises are in store for us.

I’m not saying there was any bad feeling at Tigh na Cailliche. It was just a case of walking into the unexpected combined with a latent sense which I believe we all carry. We are human beings, and we somehow know when we have stepped into a place revered by our ancestors!

Worth bearing mind are the words of an Inverness journalist who, around 1840, reported asking men in Knoydart how long their people had lived there. He said that they discussed this and returned a number of times to ask him to repeat the question. His belief was that they didn't understand the question, and the only answer he got was that they were the Sons of the Fianna!

However, I still say that the scariest thing out there, at least in the UK, is Modern Man and as any anthropologist will tell you, he's a wimp!
 
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decorum

Full Member
May 2, 2007
5,064
12
Warwickshire
... it is utterly impossible to move without noise or hide anywhere quickly without making massive amounts of noise in the spot where I camp...

... short of the person flying in, that is the only explanation.

If it's impossible for an intruder to not leave any level of sign and not make any noise then I'd have a look at a condition called Sleep Paralysis.

Most people have at least one episode in their lives - and usually someone only becomes aware of the condition if it becomes problematic*.

In effect (and in laymans terms) sleep paralysis means that you are both awake and asleep at the same time. The bad dream can't fade away - because you weren't actually *properly* asleep and, in the conventional sense, didn't actually wake up. In short - because your consious mind witnessed it you absolutely know that it did happen.


* During episodes I have seen:

People rise up through what I know to be a solid floor.
A huge spider (10 foot or so) emerge through a wall.
I have sat on bare earth and know that someone had laid a green carpet on it - there wasn't a blade of grass for tens of meters!.

I didn't wake up from these episodes - because i wasn't asleep. And I can truthfully swear that they happened. They didn't, they were a construct of my own mind - but I still know that I saw what I saw!.


And yes, until I found the answer, I did doubt my sanity :yikes: .

Oh, and - I have sat watching TV and wondered who was snoring - I lived on my own at the time!
 
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JonathanD

Ophiological Genius
Sep 3, 2004
12,815
1,511
Stourton,UK
Jonathan, I can understand your intrigue with the situation you've described. My instinct would be that it was either a territorial thing or someone who knows you playing a slightly malicious prank, or both! I'd be interested to know if you've seen any signs that someone else uses or camps at the same spot.

It was certainly no one that knows me. Besides we would still have the same problem of getting close without noise. There are zero signs of camping in those woods since I've been going there. In fact there are zero sins of trails through there except mine, and mine wouldn't be noticed by most people. The whole area is covered by rotten trees and 6ft balsam at this time of year, you walk somewhere in those woods and you have no choice but to tramble the balsam. It grows thick and close together. This person does leave some sign, but very very little. At night though, the sign would be increased tenfold unless he had a lightsource.

The area that I camp in is the same, only more densly packed with vegetation.

Here you go...

10Jul201055.jpg

10Jul201056.jpg


This is the area where my camp is...

10Jul201046.jpg


To give you an idea of the height of the balsam, I'm 6ft 2ins and this was taken with my arms above my head...

10Jul201033.jpg


My tent site is the only small clearing in that area. I normally kip in a hammock, but the trees are all unstable and this is the only suitable site.

1920Jun201054.jpg


The only way in to the site, is the one I just cleared. This one is quite wide as there were two of us that day and we carried a canoe in which was a nightmare.

1920Jun201032.jpg


There is no way, in or out except via my cleared path, walking on the chopped balsam makes a right noise as already stated, to make their own path in would be like a small army making a right racket.



Here is a pic of what I'm talking about.
 

JonathanD

Ophiological Genius
Sep 3, 2004
12,815
1,511
Stourton,UK
If it's impossible for an intruder to not leave any level of sign and not make any noise then I'd have a look at a condition called Sleep Paralysis.

Most people have at least one episode in their lives - and usually someone only becomes aware of the condition if it becomes problematic*.

I had just turned in, was awake reading a book. I was far from being tired and was drinking hot choccy too.
 

Shewie

Mod
Mod
Dec 15, 2005
24,259
26
49
Yorkshire
It's like an episode of Midsummer Murders this, except nobody knows who dunnit.

I've got some motion detection night vision IP cameras JD if you want to get it cracked one day. You'll need to sort out some power and somewhere to back the images up to but it'll show you what's occuring.

Sounds like a mini meet is in order
 

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