Elder whistle poisonous?

[georann]

I was planning to make an elder whistle, and if all goes well teach my scout group to make them.
However I just read that children should be discouraged from using elder because it contains cyanide and is quite poisonous.
Is it OK in these quantities or can anyone sugggest an alternative wood that is easy to hollow?

EDIT: Apparently Alder is quite good as well

 

[MrEd]

Yeah they are, i have made one though, its easy and im not dead. however im an adult responsible for my own actions - i dont know where you would stadn leagally with the scouts but kids have been making them for years.

you could try this though, its a .PDF download. there are loads fo good stuff on that site

http://english-civil-war-society.or...com_remository&Itemid=43&func=fileinfo&id=157

i have tried that aswell and it works, the elder was louder but the sycamore worked well too!

 

[durulz]

Well, elder is poisonous.
But people have been making elder whistles for centuries, and if it was that bad I'm sure they would have stopped. It's not as though you're eating it.

 

[georann]

ta guys.
Ill try the sycamore

 

[JonathanD]

People use elder tubes for collecting sap too, so I can't see it being that hazardous to your health, otherwise they'd be very ill. However, with Scouts now I suppose you have to think about H&S alot more than you used too.

 

[Melonfish]

directly quoted from Wiki

The leaves, twigs, branches, seeds and roots contain a cyanide producing glycoside. Ingesting any of these parts in sufficient quantity can cause a toxic build up of cyanide in the body. In addition, the unripened berry, flowers and "umbels" contain a toxic alkaloid.

Due to the possibility of cyanide poisoning, children should be discouraged from making whistles, slingshots or other toys from elderberry wood. In addition, "herbal teas" made with elderberry leaves (which contain cyanide inducing glycosides) should be treated with high caution. However, ripe berries (pulp and skin) are safe to eat.

the article references here:
http://museum.gov.ns.ca/poison/?section=species&id=117

thing is i would say its pretty harmless to be used as whistles as long as they're de-barked and the kids aren't sucking on them or ingesting them but given the presented article and a quick read through the link i'd be inclined to query a tree expert directly.
ta
pete

oh and always remember the words of the Rede. Elder is the Lady's Tree, burn it not or cursed ye be!

 

[wattsy]

you can use rowan or ash to make whistles as well i remember making massive ones when i lived in wales.

 

[Survivalmike]

I know from some historical storys that some peoples get sick by working with poisones woods because of the wood dust which is created by working and grinding the wood.

Also knew that the toxic particles can be easily set free by getting in contact with water or spittle, because you "wash out" the toxic solids.
This can also run to disease.

If you have any other stuff around I would choose those - because you are on the safe side!

greetings
Mike

 

[brancho]

pick about 20 or more native woods and they will be ok and work the method on teh link for sycamore works with willow too.

as will bamboo and plastic pipe.

 

[jojo]

Bottom line is: most woods, wood dust, the chemical the trees themselves use to prevent damage from animals, insects and fungi can be potentially toxic in some way. there are lots of wood toxicity charts on the net. Personally, I have had reaction to two woods: cocobolo, sufficiently bad to make sure I don't use it again, and iroko, again, not to be used again. I looked at a couple of wood toxicity charts and elder is not in them. Personally, I would used the stuff. I think our current obsession with Health and Safety is stiffling our use of a lot of things unnecessarily. Many, many things are much more dangerous than elder, and we still use them, like ciggies and booze in excessive amounts. Like everything, use in moderation and you'll most likely be perfectly safe.

 

[JonathanD]

I think I might just avoid Elder as a sap gathering spout now. Cheers folks, I'm enlightened.

 

[Nigel]

When l did my woodlore course, I can remember using elder as a straw for a sip well.

 

[georann]

Thanks for the pearls of wisdom guys.
Im going in to the forest this afternoon so I will try both methods

 

[Matthew.Passmore]

I wouldnt describe Elder as 'Toxic' (the leaves slightly in large quantites), more that it can produce individual sensitivity like some mushrooms; ie Chicken of the Woods; can with some peoples body chemistry,

especially in childeren or some adults that have not been exposed to be plant before ie eating the berries as a child,
cooking/heating make the berries safe for everyone so maybe heating the wood would work.

if you are sensative you wouldnt get much more than a bad stomach, unless u went to town and ate loads.

Eat some berries when they are out, only 2 or 3 and if your fine with them (most people are) you can increase your intake.

 

[JonathanD]

When l did my woodlore course, I can remember using elder as a straw for a sip well.

Yeah, that's true. I remember I had worse things in my mouth than elder that day Still, best to err on the side of caution, the missus would be really cross if I killed the kids.

 

[FerlasDave]

a dry dead peice would be alright to use though. the sap would be dry and leeched out.

 

[jmatthews]

www.henriettesherbal.com/blog/elder-toxicity.html
-interesting

James

 

[dwardo]

I have made straws, pipes, whistles and many other bits and bobs from elder with no ill effects. I supposed if you wanted to munch a whole bunch of leaves or strip off the live bark and chew it you might get sick. I have only ever reacted to so called poinsenous woods in sawdust form when making bows etc, certainly not when whittling a whistle.

I guess there are other woods that can be used but none as easy as elder..