eBay bans sale of all knives....

[Black Sheep]

How soon is this ban coming into place

I've just put a bid on a knife on Ebay (not a kitchen knife) and I'll see what happens in 3 day when it ends if I win it

I've also done a search on knives and there's still load advertised.

Richard

 

[malcolmc]

When I buy kit on the internet I want to compare what many sellers have on offer. As pictures of the items informs my decision on which supplier to buy from and I can not get broadband where I live, it’s been my practice to use the local library’s internet service, which is broadband, to conduct product searches. Last week I found that a number of websites run by surplus shops where filtered by the council’s safety software. I reported, to the librarian, that legitimate trading sites where being blocked with the comment that I could see no reason why they should be blocked.

I’ve just had a response from the council’s network administrator and, you’ve probably guessed it, these sites are being blocked because they sell knives and children use the library’s internet terminals; as a policy, they don’t want children to even see these advertisements. Thing is they are unable (unwilling?) to block specific pages – they block the whole site. I do despair sometimes.

I think we have a need to address the public perception about those who carry knifes, I feel we need to get across we are doing so for good reasons. Since this has become an issue I’ve stopped carrying mine when I’m bimbling about near home but there have been occasions when it would have been useful to have it and I feel really uncomfortable not having it with me. When I was in the scouts the word was you practice with the kit you intend to use for real; that way you get used to using it and you discover any problems before you’re dependant on any particular item of kit.

However, I can understand where joe public is coming from; I’m a bit uneasy if I come across someone wandering about with an unbroken gun.

This is not a troll, but what would people think about having a licence to carry a knife in a public place. It would cost us, both time and money. But it would reassure the general public and would remove the risk of losing our knives if we come across a police officer who does not accept we have reasonable excuse for carrying. It would also protect vendors. Would anyone else support such an idea? It wouldn't stop knife crime but it could protect what we do.

 

[Dan1982]

This country never ceases to amaze me!! Whilst i am not that bothered whether ebay sell knives or not, the actual principle and reasoning behind these moronic and uneducated decisions is really starting to get on my t*ts.

This is up there with safety goggles for conkers in schools!!

Lets all cover our ears, close our eyes and sing la la la i cant hear you!!

Dan

 

[combatblade1]

The reason i asked is that i have came up against a few knives myself but never a kitchen knife, the telegraph im sure have their facts right in the article though i would doubt Ian blair has( i wonder when he was last on the street dealing with the public on a saturday night?? The most common knife i have seen carried on the street is the small folding lock knife the type which can be bought on the net or in the local shop. This info is my own first hand experience and from others i work. Youths carry knives which look good as most are used to make threats which can end up in a stabbing, this dosent however rule out incidents with kitchen knives screwdrivers etc being involved in stabbings but saying that kitchen knives are the most common used weapons is incorrect in my experience.

combatblade1...
...For me it came from a few retied coppers I've met or spoken to online. All of them said the most common weapons they came across when searching rum'uns and in stabbing cases were kitchen knives and screwdrivers.

Taking that into account (along with the other things people get stabbed with including broken bottles and chisels) along with the completely common sense argument that anyone who is determined to stab someone need only open their kitchen drawer and take their pick of steak knives, foot long cook's knives, filleting knives, whatever's in there really, you get to the point where it becomes obvious that no ban will make things safer, just inconvenience, alienate and criminalise hobby knife collectors and legitimate knife carriers like myself (I carry a knife pretty much everywhere I go without breaking a single law in doing so).

The link wanderingblade seems to agree with that (and that's a chief - not some retiree - haha)

 

[Matt.S]

This is not a troll, but what would people think about having a licence to carry a knife in a public place. It would cost us, both time and money. But it would reassure the general public and would remove the risk of losing our knives if we come across a police officer who does not accept we have reasonable excuse for carrying. It would also protect vendors. Would anyone else support such an idea? It wouldn't stop knife crime but it could protect what we do.

A lot of people are 'concerned' about those of us who legally own guns, even with very strict licensing and the enormous restrictions on what we're allowed. Just imagine what screaming headlines the red-tops would print... pictures of Rambo-esque knives with serrated-blades longer than your forearm... a whole load of 'articles' on the 'scourge of knife crime', complete with bleeding-heart interviews with the relatives of 'good, church-going, pillar-of-the-community' types that 'just got mixed up in it, honest, they were a good boy really'... various editorials calling for a blanket ban on knives and/or our stringing-up depending on the newsrag in question. Furthermore if such a system were to come into force, a) there could well be the issue of 'them' having our names on a list (harassment by 'eager' constables for example) and b) the inevitable creeping restrictions that would come in later (just like guns).

I do though agree with your idea of somehow improving the view of knives in general. I have a few ideas which might be useful, but I'll hold fire on that here, to avoid even more tread veer. Shoot me a PM if you're interested in a brainstorm.

 

[trail2]

Having a license to carry a knife will have no impact on those who carry one illegally now.
All it would do is further erode your basic rights. You can't legislate away the publics rights while not confronting the basic problem.ie the criminals.
Jon R.

 

[BigShot]

malcolmc

The idea of a licence to carry a knife is something I find kinda disturbing. That we need permission to carry and use one of man's oldest and most important tools is, I think, a pretty disgusting idea.

Licencing, restrictions, bans, limits and everything else server ONLY to handicap, inconvenience and cost the normal law abiding people while criminals (those who ignore the laws already won't care about ignoring one more) carry on their merry little way.

When a scrote grabs a kitchen knife to take out, he breaks (at least) 2 or 3 laws. One more won't make a blind bit of difference.
Bear in mind that when they get that knife they are probably planning on breaking at least 1 or 2 more. So that's already between 3 and 5 major laws broken by the time they bag their first victim of the night.

We need less government, less restriction and less needless persecution of law abiding people.

Agreeing to a need for licencing would be tantamount to saying "yes, these are dangerous tools/weapons and it's only right that they should be restricted" when they are absolutely nothing of the sort. We need to go completely the opposite way and get people to realise that they are NOT dangerous, they are NOT weapons and they do NOT need restricting or licencing.
It is the scumbags who attack people with impunity that are the problem, it is the scumbags who attack people with impunity that cause others to carry a knife out of fear.

We need to punish crimes properly, make moves to prevent them happening, rehabilitate, reeducate and encourage parents to take responsibility for raising their kids in a decent manner.
How non PC is that? Haha.

No amount of legislation will ever reduce violent crime, we've had about 300 laws passed since Labour come into power and other than the dodgy counting there's not been any significant drop in violent crime.

Get rid of PCSOs and stop relying on CCTV.
Put bobbies on foot, on the beat.
Stop giving the criminal more rights than the victim and stop releasing them months into a multi year sentence.

That'll reduce crime - not some half baked ban on yet another tool.


If you REALLY want to make a difference - let's campaign for castle doctrine to come into law, and let's allow people to practice effective armed self defence - I guarantee a drop in violent crime if that happens. (Of course, I wouldn't count a mugger getting hurt as a violent crime like some people would/do).

Rant well and truly over - haha.

Sorry about that.

 

[trail2]

Well said Bigshot. I totally agree.
Use a knife in the commission of a crime should carry a mandatory sentence. No ifs ands or buts. Bang them up.
Jon R.

 

[BigShot]

I'm with you there trail2.

Could even have the knife part as an add-on sentence.

Robbery - 3 years (that's what the guy who tried it on with me got a few years back).
Using a knife in the process - another 3 (for example).

Regardless of whether the knife was just shown or actually used to cut/stab.

I'd be all for that and can't see anyone sensible finding fault with it.

I still believe the criminals though, they say the biggest deterrent is an armed victim. Not police, not court, not prison - armed public.
But that's another thread we've already done recently and we probably shouldn't go there.
I certainly don't intend to take it any further - that was only said as a statement of opinion about the words of convicted criminals - not as an invitation to debate.

I'm off to be now.

Goodnight folks.

 

[Jedadiah]

Perhaps we are all going to have to learn to accept that this country we live in isnt perfect.. its a lot better than most i can think of and if we cant buy knives on ebay... well.. it isnt the end of the world....lets not blow this out of proportion heh.. we probably all have more than one knife..and really..do we need more than one?...Really?

What, roll over and expose our soft, white, underbelly? It's the principle of the thing. As well as affecting our chosen pastime, if it's what the Americans would call 'unconstitutional'
then we should call in the European Human Rights ethics where it is infringing my human rights, rights as an Briton, hell, my rights as an adult to be allowed to carry a knife that abides by the rules that THEY have made. If i want to use an internet based auction site to attain one of these pieces, why the hell should'nt i?

It just seems that the majority is suffering for the actions of the minority, just like the economic crisis we are currently experiencing. We will be law abiding and do as they say and the plebs and oxygen thieves will continue to cut each other up with kitchen utensils bought anywhere.

This country may not be perfect, but that does'nt mean we have to accept it and the knee jerk reactions and decisions people make in our name. We have the power of the vote which we can exercise (and should) and we can pressurise to make changes. If we accepted everything, we'd still have the poll tax!

 

[sapper1]

Jed,we still have the poll tax.They just changed the name .
The same rules apply to the ouncil tax that applied to the poll tax only the amount and how its collected is different.

 

[Phil6201]

Is this just ebay.co.uk, or the american ebay as well?

 

[locum76]

What, roll over and expose our soft, white, underbelly? It's the principle of the thing. As well as affecting our chosen pastime, if it's what the Americans would call 'unconstitutional'
then we should call in the European Human Rights ethics where it is infringing my human rights, rights as an Briton, hell, my rights as an adult to be allowed to carry a knife that abides by the rules that THEY have made. If i want to use an internet based auction site to attain one of these pieces, why the hell should'nt i?

It just seems that the majority is suffering for the actions of the minority, just like the economic crisis we are currently experiencing. We will be law abiding and do as they say and the plebs and oxygen thieves will continue to cut each other up with kitchen utensils bought anywhere.

This country may not be perfect, but that does'nt mean we have to accept it and the knee jerk reactions and decisions people make in our name. We have the power of the vote which we can exercise (and should) and we can pressurise to make changes. If we accepted everything, we'd still have the poll tax!

first of all - i applaud jura for his/her common sense approach to this and for being possibly the only poster on this thread (so far) who isn't succumbing to a KNEEJERK REACTION.

secondly - it was ebays decision to ban the sale of certain types of knives on their website not the governments so no amount of ranting at the our beloved mp's will change things. This takes the issue out of the human rights agenda because it is the shopkeepers desicion what is sold by them.

and finally - Ebay is a large company and i'm sure that the only way they could keep knives out of the wrong hands is to not sell them at all. If i was a knife maker I would be upset if I sold a knive to somebody and discovered it had been used in a crime.

When knives are sold in a shop the shopkeeper can easily assess the suitability of the knife and its uses to the individual buying it and make a knowledge based decision on if its the right thing for the buyer - safe as houses.

If the kids are naively taking kitchen knives out with them then it is up to the knife owner (i.e parent) to keep it safely locked away until the kid is mature enough to handle it.

cheers

Rob

 

[sapper1]

Just ebay.co.uk.

 

[BigShot]

locum, other than my rant in my last post, I'm not sure anyone could accuse me of knee-jerking.

I've long argued that things were backward here, that when we punish crime we actually need to punish it and that responsible adults (and for that matter, young adults and kids) should be allowed to be responsible for their own actions and not have the law hanging over them and preventing them from going about their legitimate non-criminal activities.

My objection to ebay was in succumbing to the stupidity of the situation instead of saying "No, hang on, there's nothing illegal about that lot, and this and this just slipped through the net, we'll tighten it up."

My general objection is the villificaiton of knives and knife users instead of the pursuit, punishment and dissuasion of criminals.
It's all **** about face and it needs changing urgently.

 

[wanderingblade]

Perhaps we are all going to have to learn to accept that this country we live in isnt perfect.. its a lot better than most i can think of and if we cant buy knives on ebay... well.. it isnt the end of the world....lets not blow this out of proportion heh.. we probably all have more than one knife..and really..do we need more than one?...Really?

Firstly, you can never have too many knives - go wash your mouth out!

Secondly (and seriously) it may not be the end of the world for you if ebay stop knife sales but there are hundreds of businesses (mine included) that will be hit hard and probably fold due to this. Add to that the many more hundereds of sellers who supplement their family income by trading part time and you have quite a large impact.

When knives are sold in a shop the shopkeeper can easily assess the suitability of the knife and its uses to the individual buying it and make a knowledge based decision on if its the right thing for the buyer - safe as houses.

False security there I think. The shopkeeper may well think the person he is selling knife to looks responsable, but it's some time since I've seen a criminal with a stripey jersey and a 'swag' bag over his shoulder - how many nutters have gone on the rampage followed by shocked neighbours claiming he was 'such a nice quitet chap...'
How will a shopkeeper know the person purchasing the knife is the intended end user? Could be a gift, could be an older brother / sister buying it for a sibling etc, etc.

What is clear is that any restriction on the sale of knives is doomed to fail as an effective tactic to reduce violent crime. The availability of alternative weapons is too great.

Maybe we should just take the current logic to it's inevitable conclusion - put everyone in jail and make them prove they are innocent and allowed their freedom.

 

[locum76]

a law banning the carrying of knives by people who have no apparent reason for doing so does give the police powers to confiscate knives from those individuals. If there is no such law then police are bound to wait until there is an incident such as a stabbing, by which time it is too late.

the law does not (as far as i understand) affect people who are carrying those knives for some legitimate purpose, that is bushcrafters, gardeners, farmers, chefs, hunters etc etc.

Anything that makes selling your product in your business is a nightmare, i know that and you have my sympathy wanderingstar if its going to cause you grief.

perhaps there are local ironmongers and outdoor hardware shops that would be interested in your knives though. you could give them a couple of samples and anyone wishing to purchase your knives could then commision one using the store as an agent. that way you would be supporting a local business and so would the store. surely that is better all round than piling yet more cash into the huge corporation that is ebay? You could still advertise your knives through this site and BB as well and state the shop as a point of contact for orders...

 

[Simon]

a law banning the carrying of knives by people who have no apparent reason for doing so does give the police powers to confiscate knives from those individuals. If there is no such law then police are bound to wait until there is an incident such as a stabbing, by which time it is too late.

This law is already in existence, locum and has been since 1988

the law does not (as far as i understand) affect people who are carrying those knives for some legitimate purpose, that is bushcrafters, gardeners, farmers, chefs, hunters etc etc.

Yes it does affect them. The wording of the law goes like this;

(5) Without prejudice to the generality of subsection (4) above, it shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under this section to prove that he had the article with him—
(a) for use at work;
(b) for religious reasons; or
(c) as part of any national costume.

.

"Defence" is an important part here, because if you get to "defence", you're already standing in front of a Judge.

 

[Womble_Lancs]

I cant believe this - for gods sake if its hard and pointy it can kill someone - suppose the screwdrivers go next? or the kebab skewers? - all been used as weapons at some point..

grrrrr

Our local radio presenter says that tights ought to be banned, because they have been used to murder people. I agree that they should be banned, but that's because I hate the evil horrible things.:twak:

 

[BigShot]

Also of note, there's nothing in there about leisure use.
In fact, does the law make any explicit allowance for people who need fixed, locking or long knives for anything other than work, national dress or religion?

People at or going to or from work (work that needs a blade) have good reason, scots in national dress and sikhs have - do bushcrafters explicitly have good reason? Be it case law or statute.