eBay bans sale of all knives....

[Simon]

Also of note, there's nothing in there about leisure use.
In fact, does the law make any explicit allowance for people who need fixed, locking or long knives for anything other than work, national dress or religion?

People at or going to or from work (work that needs a blade) have good reason, scots in national dress and sikhs have - do bushcrafters explicitly have good reason? Be it case law or statute.

Full Section 139 of The Criminal Justice Act 1988 Chapter 33

139 Offence of having article with blade or point in public place (1) Subject to subsections (4) and (5) below, any person who has an article to which this section applies with him in a public place shall be guilty of an offence.
(2) Subject to subsection (3) below, this section applies to any article which has a blade or is sharply pointed except a folding pocketknife.
(3) This section applies to a folding pocketknife if the cutting edge of its blade exceeds 3 inches.
(4) It shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under this section to prove that he had good reason or lawful authority for having the article with him in a public place.
(5) Without prejudice to the generality of subsection (4) above, it shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under this section to prove that he had the article with him—
(a) for use at work;
(b) for religious reasons; or
(c) as part of any national costume.
(6) A person guilty of an offence under subsection (1) above shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale.
(7) In this section “public place” includes any place to which at the material time the public have or are permitted access, whether on payment or otherwise.
(8) This section shall not have effect in relation to anything done before it comes into force.

That last bit opens up a can of worms. Some people don't like worms

 

[BigShot]

Doesn't number 8 just make it non-retrospective?

That does settle my fear though, as the specific defences in section 5 are given "without prejudice to the generality of section 4" - which to my untrained non-legal-professional reading of it means things like Bushcrafting should be taken as good reason.

 

[Simon]

Doesn't number 8 just make it non-retrospective?.

As I read it, and this is only my interpretation, it appears to mean that this section has no power to overrule any law that preceded it.

 

[BigShot]

That'd be unusual.

Maybe a legal bod could clarify.

 

[locum76]

Doesn't number 8 just make it non-retrospective?

That does settle my fear though, as the specific defences in section 5 are given "without prejudice to the generality of section 4" - which to my untrained non-legal-professional reading of it means things like Bushcrafting should be taken as good reason.

yippee, exactly.

and simon, i know the law already exists and if it wasn't for my shonky syntax i'd maybe have made that clear. I think my point is valid though, if the there was no such law the feds would be powerless until a nasty event had taken place with a knife.

now we just have to sort out a good route to market for all of the talented knife makers out there. (other than peddling them outside primary schools of course).

i'll get me coat.

Rob :sulkoff:

 

[Jedadiah]

first of all - i applaud jura for his/her common sense approach to this and for being possibly the only poster on this thread (so far) who isn't succumbing to a KNEEJERK REACTION.

secondly - it was ebays decision to ban the sale of certain types of knives on their website not the governments so no amount of ranting at the our beloved mp's will change things. This takes the issue out of the human rights agenda because it is the shopkeepers desicion what is sold by them.

and finally - Ebay is a large company and i'm sure that the only way they could keep knives out of the wrong hands is to not sell them at all. If i was a knife maker I would be upset if I sold a knive to somebody and discovered it had been used in a crime.

When knives are sold in a shop the shopkeeper can easily assess the suitability of the knife and its uses to the individual buying it and make a knowledge based decision on if its the right thing for the buyer - safe as houses.

If the kids are naively taking kitchen knives out with them then it is up to the knife owner (i.e parent) to keep it safely locked away until the kid is mature enough to handle it.

cheers

Rob

a law banning the carrying of knives by people who have no apparent reason for doing so does give the police powers to confiscate knives from those individuals. If there is no such law then police are bound to wait until there is an incident such as a stabbing, by which time it is too late.

the law does not (as far as i understand) affect people who are carrying those knives for some legitimate purpose, that is bushcrafters, gardeners, farmers, chefs, hunters etc etc.

Anything that makes selling your product in your business is a nightmare, i know that and you have my sympathy wanderingstar if its going to cause you grief.

perhaps there are local ironmongers and outdoor hardware shops that would be interested in your knives though. you could give them a couple of samples and anyone wishing to purchase your knives could then commision one using the store as an agent. that way you would be supporting a local business and so would the store. surely that is better all round than piling yet more cash into the huge corporation that is ebay? You could still advertise your knives through this site and BB as well and state the shop as a point of contact for orders...

Good points well made. I can only hang my head and apologise for mixing up the eBay ban and the law, your right, i'll wind my neck in. However, i do think that this is demonstrative of the confusion that can occur when something is banned, wether it is in Law or by a retailer. I stand by what i said but, your right, it was in the wrong context. :11doh: Am i forgiven?

 

[locum76]

we are all bushcraft brothers jedidiah. there is nothing to forgive...

 

[hog]

Perhaps we are all going to have to learn to accept that this country we live in isnt perfect.. its a lot better than most i can think of and if we cant buy knives on ebay... well.. it isnt the end of the world....lets not blow this out of proportion heh.. we probably all have more than one knife..and really..do we need more than one?...Really?

Its not about the supply, its about the erosion of your freedom to purchase.

 

[wanderingblade]

Its not about the supply, its about the erosion of your freedom to purchase.

True.
It has already been suggested that this could be the thin edge of the wedge and we are all well aware of certain politicians fondness for spotting an easy target for a ratings boost or the media spotting an openeing for a nice sensationalized 'ban online knife sales' campaign.

 

[Simon]

The thing with "thin end of the wedge"s is thet they have a nasty habit of building uo to a rather fat wedge before you realise what is happening.

 

[BigShot]

I don't think it's accurate to call this the thin end - I think we're half way to choking on the bloody wedge by now... but as far as buying knives easilly this could be the thin end...

 

[wanderingblade]

Just in case anyone has 3 or 4 minutes to spare...........

http://www.bbc.co.uk/complaints/complaints_stage1.shtml

 

[Simon]

Not bad, 3 out of my 4 comments on the watchdog site got through the Moderation.

I'll get on to the BBC complaints at some point today, Mike

 

[Nordicaheat]

Nobody understands eBay uk's decision. Here in Finland, we have a law saying that it is illegal to carry a puukko knife in public. Finnish president Ahtisaari says he always keeps a puukko with him..

So what??

Some of those whol sells on ebay uk decided to terminate their business. Some others, like me, have no choice but to find another place instead.

A scene from Little Britain comes to my mind.

Computer says No
BBC says No.

 

[Simon]

The watchdog comments are now closed, but not without them leaving a last stubborn comment.

[Note from Watchdog: Several police officers that we showed our selection of knives to classed the knives as offensive weapons, including the sergeant featured in the film.

The plastic knife is a 'stealth knife'.
The knife in a pen is a 'disguised knife'
The three other knives are either 'flick knives' or 'gravity knives'.

All of these are classed as offensive weapons, and we trust the police to be the authority on this matter.

I've made a complaint to the BBC stating that neither they nor the police officers that they consulted are qualified or in an authorative position to state catagorically that these knives were offensive weapons and that it is unethical to do so.

 

[myotis]

I've made a complaint to the BBC stating that neither they nor the police officers that they consulted are qualified or in an authorative position to state catagorically that these knives were offensive weapons and that it is unethical to do so.

The correspondence I had with the Watchdog editor over this said they got their advice from the

"national lead [police] officer on knives"


whoever he/she maybe.

Graham

 

[lee22]

well just added my 2 penith worth ( hall2205 http://forums.ebay.co.uk/thread.jspa?messageID=1207145498&#1207145498 ) and pointed out that on veiwing ebay kids can see items of a sexual nature and a terrorist could easilly get parts for bomb making.......whats worse here selling a knife , supplying a terrorist or sujecting kids to sex orrintated items/pics....i agree ebay should just introduse an adult section where the more (dare i say) controversial items can be sold im sure that people wouldnt mind supplying ebay with verifiable id if they want to enter such a section
lee

 

[Rui]

Now I can sell my bushman on ebay.

It's a kitchen knife.

______________________________________________________________

Bushcraft PORTUGAL - http://bushcraft-pt.forumeiro.net/

 

[mace242]

The correspondence I had with the Watchdog editor over this said they got their advice from the

"national lead [police] officer on knives"


whoever he/she maybe.

Graham

That's Alfred Hitchcock I'm suspecting.

 

[myotis]

That's Alfred Hitchcock I'm suspecting.

So it would seem.

Graham