Design Feedback sought: Field/Utility prototypes (also on BB)

[C_Claycomb]

Hello,

I hope you don’t mind, but I was wondering what the assemblage of learned knife buyers and users thought of these from a design point of view?

They are both prototypes, if you like, hence the rough finish and Tufnol handles. These knives are a bit bigger than what I am accustomed to making, the blades are 6.0inches and 5.75 inches, with OAL of 11.25 and 11 inches dead. Blade thickness stands at a fraction under 5mm. One follows fairly closely in the style of other knives that I have been making lately, just brawnier. The other draws on a variety of knives that I have seen pictured, ranging from Busse to Kershaw, but with some adjustments to fit my way of doing things.

I showed them both to some folk at the Midland show and one of the things said was that they were too big for handy utility, but too small for true camp knife chores. This might be true. I have happily carried five inch knives and found them very useful, and even did the Woodlore Fundamental course with a 5.75” Fowler-like knife, but then, I have been told that I am odd more than once So, what do you think? Is there a place for knives of this size? Would you use one? If so, what would you use it for?

The reason that I call these prototypes is that I have a piece of 5mm thick rolled 12C27 which I am slowly psyching myself up to tackle and want to have some solid designs to work to before I cut steel. Previously I have only made pretty Bowie style knives in this kind of thickness, but stainless steel asks to be made into something more utilitarian. One of my thoughts was to make a knife suitable for expeditions into far flung corners of the world. Its hard not to chat to someone like Stuart about trips to Borneo, Botswana, and Gabon, without such thoughts cropping up.

Even without the stainless lurking in the background, I would value your opinions. Please ask any questions you like, I am sure that I could have written more about the knives, but didn't want to be more boring than necessary :X

Many thanks for your time.

 

[sam_acw]

Look like good examples of the one knife for everything type style. Probably long enough to chop a little and small enough to whittle.
I'm sure I'd change a few things but that's personal taste rather than what would imporve them - I'm slowly formulating my own idea of an all round knife - it'll probably be a bright orange leuku!
what type of grind do they have and is it the same along their length?

 

[Mesquite]

You showed us this one I think at the Herts meet today Chris and I have to say I liked it.

It didn't seem too big to handle out in the field and I think it would do very well at most tasks we do whilst bushcrafting, especially battoning wood when the extra length will come in handy once you get the knife into the log. I'd have liked to have had a bit of a play with it but sadly there wasn't time but maybe another time.

 

[Robby]

Nice, very nice. I like the shape and line of those. They are very similar in shape to a design I drew up when I was younger that I would have liked to have gotten made up. It's quite interesting that you bring up the size of the blade as I have always been more used to larger knives, until getting into Bushcraft. Most of the knives I used when I was younger were between 6 - 8 inch blades. Probably something I picked up from my Dad. He always used a larger knife, (a shortened Bayonet, if I remember right) though he tended to sharpen them in a rather unusual way. He would have the top half of the blade towards the point razor sharp but leave the back half heavier for chopping and what I now realise was battoning.

 

[seved]

If i should have just one knife to all jobs i should use something like that. Personaly i like big knives. With those knives you can do most things good .but not as good as a specialized knife of course. But you can not choop with a short knife. I have butchered cocks with those kind of knives and it works pretty good. And they are good for "kitchenwork" to. Thats what i think about it.
The handles looks good for chooping to.

Seved

 

[JonathanD]

A knife is a very personal thing. It looks great, and if it it works for you then it's perfect. There is nothing right or wrong in knife design, it depends entirely upon the person using it

 

[Tiley]

I agree with JonathanD on this: knife design is a personal thing. I would add that function has a major role in selection. I, personally, like the blade shape here though obviously do not know how they perform; I would say that they are too long for any of my purposes and, at 5mm, far too thick, even for a camp knife. Anyway, what is a 'camp knife'? When all is said and done, tasks that are too great for my knife are usually done by my saw or axe so having a 'camp knife' strikes me a a little pointless. But, then again, that, like knife design, is only a personal thing .

 

[Native Justice]

Beautiful work! Love 'em both myself. Especially the spear/drop pointed blade. Personally, I like a slightly heftier knife also. On the utility side, here in the states at least, I find a knife in the 5-6" range to be ideal; great for camp, butchering, kitchen, and large game break down. Thickness need not be a problem if you consider applying a distal taper to these blades. The taper will keep the strength in the handle and just slightly forward of the ricasso where you'd want it for carving and hard cutting tasks while the belly and tip would be lively and thin enough for slicing and finer tasks.

Hope I've helped in some small way.

NJ

 

[stevesteve]

Chris,
If you like them then they are right! I have just posted some pics of a similar-sized knife on Britishblades and I am pretty happy with the size.

Personally I think both are excellent. Not necessarily carrying knives but they look like 'workers'.

Cheers,
Steve

 

[Bernie Garland]

As already said Chris,if a knife suits you personally you can only go with your own views,and there both cracking looking knives.

Bernie

 

[edispilff]

They are both well thought out designs.

If i were to make any change, it would be to add a large choil (big enough for the index finger to fit around half way.. maybe about 18mm dia.) in front of the ricasso. This would allow you to choke up on the knife a litte easier for smaller tasks.

just cents/pence... honestly, they both look like good users the way they are

 

[Ogri the trog]

Hi Chris,
After my last comments about your knives, I feel that I owe you some proper feedback.
Aesthetically, these two look beautiful, certainly commercial quality, and I doubt that you’ll struggle to find buyers for them or their successors. The difficulty in designing a knife to cope with an unknown number of tasks under the “Camp knife” banner is that different people will not only have a different list of tasks under the same banner, but will also approach those tasks in different ways. No matter what the list entails, these look like they’ll cope admirably. I have made very few blades for other people and definitely nowhere near the quality that you can turn out time after time.
Now, here comes the crunch, would I want to buy one?..... I’m going to say “no”, but I want to justify that. Not only has my disposable income fallen through the floor lately, but I’m not a current fan of large blades (though I am trialling something larger than I would otherwise use). I prefer a fat handle, something that keeps the tips of index and middle finger away from my palm, so I feel that I have full control. In mediation, I do like the slight rise in the fore-end part of the handle of the bigger blade, it is just enough of a distinction from many other similar styles available.
Overall, I am very impressed at the standard of your work and the fact that I can find picky niggles should count for nothing against your ability to produce them.

Best of luck in marketing them.

Ogri the trog

 

[dwardo]

I agree they are lovely knives

I dont know if my opinion is shared elswhere but i have found over the past few years i am looking at smaller and smaller knives as opposed to larger "do it all knives" Also the typical scandi grind is really starting the become a "grind" so its nice to see they have an easily sharpened field edge. This is only a personal opinion but i see my self definately going down in size as i allways have an axe or saw with me when out so chopping etc would be done with these tools instead. This and the fact that i rarely chop wood for a fire for instance as i tend to use an indian fire or long fire (less work ) The only time i do chop wood is for projects, bows etc. I guess i see it as more of a survival knife size.

I love the shape and the workmanship is well,, prefect as usual

Might make a great draw knife !

 

[Ratbag]

Both look great to me Chris. If I had to make comments I would have to say that I like both blade shapes, but the front half of the handle on the top one, and rear half of the handle of the bottom one (if that makes sense). And the tapered tang looks better and would probably aid with chopping ability.

PM me when you're ready to go into production buddy!

 

[spamel]

I couldn't possibly comment without getting my hands on them and giving them a workout, for free of course.

Do you want my addy?

 

[NatG]

AS a collector, they look nice and seem like fun, so i like them from that point of view, but as a user, i would want the nbig one to be about 2 inches longer in the blade, and the small one to be ablout an two inches shorted in the blade, and about 2mm thinner.

I think that would produce a perfect pair
the handle shape on the bigger one looks just about perfect, i'm undecided about the pommel/ scraper/striker, but i suppose it would be useful in some situations

 

[Dougster]

I have to say I like them both, but especially the top one. Full flat is my choice of grind for most things now and I like that length, I carry a small necker too.

If you sold that in a modern steel (like 12c27 or indeed RWL34) like the prototype, I'd very seriously try to put the money together to have one. Full flats and bigger blades would lead me to do things that 01 wouldn't like....

 

[Celt_Ginger]

They look nice enough, but for me, 5mm is too thick for anything other than a chopping knife. That's a personal opinion and I don't mean to take anything away from what I'm sure are very good knives. I have worked in Butchery and catering for more than 18 years and have subjected knives to obscene amounts of punishment and have only ever seen one knife break in all that time, and none have been more than 3mm thick. If I think I will need something heaver than that, I'd carry an axe or a parang.

 

[Diligence]

Some observations:

* Handles with "swell" = comfortable grip in my opinion
* tapered tang allows you to move the balance point forward. Where is the balance point on these? Is it in front of the ricasso handle? You could always drill some holes in the tang to advance the balance point. I like a balance point that is in front of the scales.
* I do not like the exposed scraper/tang. I think I would find that uncomfortable for reverse hammer grips (ie thumb on end of tang)
* great texture for the scales - my favorites are rough in texture but still neat in appearance
* the point of the blade seems to be inline with the overall centerline of the tang. I usually like my points to be just below the centerline (just a personal preference)
* on the 6" blade model, I would remove the guard from the back of the handle (might get in the way of my thumb when choking up on the blade)
* the 6" model almost has a parang shape to the blade (or is this a camera trick)....kind of like some of Emerson's tactical blades. I'm not a fan, but I know lots of people are.
*lately, I've been a fan of a small cutout on the front end, right side scale for placing my thumb when holding the knife in a sideways grip for completing chest cuts.

All in all - I would carry either one of them and I think you should be proud of them!

Cheers,
D