73.6% of all statistics are made up on the spot.
Covid 2nd jab
- Thread starter Hammock_man
- Start date
73.6% of all statistics are made up on the spot.
Running out of customers? 90% of adults have had the first jab
It also doesn't help that the younger population arn't being offered the jab that's much easier to dish out
Not related to the contents of this thread, you all seem like good eggs! But....
Honestly the whole topic is just ridiculous (not this thread, but the whole global category of "covid chat").
I don't think I've ever seen as much spreading of misinformation in my life and it's quite depressing I find.
I've seen vegans claiming that the only people that have got sick are meat eaters and then you have people who you just know give off that anti facial recognition CCTV stuff, yet the moment they get a chance to wear a mask they moan about that... The worst part overall I have found is that I'm of course not surprised in the slightest that the internet is full of the serious lunatics, but I find their ways and misleading BS are actually impacting on "real" people, people I know. Even myself whilst queuing for the vaccine I was thinking to myself "hope I'm making the right decision here".. My wife had a meeting a day or two before the jab and during a chatty moment, she was told that one of the vaccines can cause infertility - so that got her worried...
The latest news with restrictions being lifted is concerning, not only on a pandemic level, but also on a social level, will we see people turning on others? "Why are you wearing a mask, we don't have to wear one, take it off", "I can enter a shop without one, I don't have to wear one"... Or indeed alternatively hounding those without masks....
I think I need to go camping...
Honestly the whole topic is just ridiculous (not this thread, but the whole global category of "covid chat").
I don't think I've ever seen as much spreading of misinformation in my life and it's quite depressing I find.
I've seen vegans claiming that the only people that have got sick are meat eaters and then you have people who you just know give off that anti facial recognition CCTV stuff, yet the moment they get a chance to wear a mask they moan about that... The worst part overall I have found is that I'm of course not surprised in the slightest that the internet is full of the serious lunatics, but I find their ways and misleading BS are actually impacting on "real" people, people I know. Even myself whilst queuing for the vaccine I was thinking to myself "hope I'm making the right decision here".. My wife had a meeting a day or two before the jab and during a chatty moment, she was told that one of the vaccines can cause infertility - so that got her worried...
The latest news with restrictions being lifted is concerning, not only on a pandemic level, but also on a social level, will we see people turning on others? "Why are you wearing a mask, we don't have to wear one, take it off", "I can enter a shop without one, I don't have to wear one"... Or indeed alternatively hounding those without masks....
I think I need to go camping...
I am of the mind what we are experiencing in terms of Covid Chat is what humans have always done in the places humans meet to work, socialise and live except the difference to cause the impression that something is going very wrong, is the medium of communication of which given it's reach and public nature minority voices can become amplified out of all proportion. How to counter, well beyond the implementation of the age old believe nothing of what you hear and only half of what you see , there is a strong case for promoting media literacy and with that critical thinking.
As regards the fear of confrontation over the wearing of masks and in my case a full face shield in close public spaces, I have decided not to worry about what the internet is telling me to worry about, to there take each day as it comes, for I have long learned that lesson, the lesson that society isn't what media makes it out to be.
In addition I am making an extra special effort to be nice to people as one thing I have learned through the course of my life is that being friendly can have the effect so as to dissuade potential aggressors.
As regards the fear of confrontation over the wearing of masks and in my case a full face shield in close public spaces, I have decided not to worry about what the internet is telling me to worry about, to there take each day as it comes, for I have long learned that lesson, the lesson that society isn't what media makes it out to be.
In addition I am making an extra special effort to be nice to people as one thing I have learned through the course of my life is that being friendly can have the effect so as to dissuade potential aggressors.
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This is exactly, almost word for word, what those who are sceptical of the vaccine, mask wearing, lock downs, infection numbers, severity and origin source, are saying. Those who do not want the vaccine would say that those who have had it, and support vaccination, have bought into a media and government lie and lack critical thinking ability.
There are scientific studies and experts sharing their expertise to support nearly every point of view and counter view.
Just the other day, on another forum, someone opined that they "all we get is cases cases cases, why can't we get some real science about the virus?" I think that the main stream news where this person was was particularly shallow and politically partisan, which didn't help their perspective. I think though that a lot of the sceptics feel that way.
There is a strange conflict between not wanting to take a vaccine because it has been "...approved for emergency use....rushed into existence without all the proper safety checks." and wanting solid, unshakable studies from scientist, with which everyone agrees, without the time needed to create, run, result gather, analyse, publish, peer review and have proven. When a report is published, it is disseminated at speed now, through the internet. Maybe the conclusion contradicts an earlier study, which is hardly news in the world of scientific study, but with Covid it prompts people to pick the study that most closely supports their ideology and to complain that the other study isn't "real" science.
For example, mask wearing. "Do masks work?" seems a simple question, but you can have two polarised camps with different definitions of what "work" means. Those in favour have been in favour from the start and tend to still be in favour, they tend to see masks as a way to lower risk of spreading droplets and protecting those around them, whose masks in turn protect them. Those against have tended to view masks as a ridiculously ineffective means of protecting the wearer and they cite the size of viral particles, gaps around masks, and that you can smell things through a cloth mask. The WHO and governments have flopped around with advice like a fish out of water. It doesn't help that studies and policy derived from the original strain may be less valid when looking at the Delta strain, but that doesn't mean those policies were never effective.
Study published submitted in July 2020 that found that masks cut transmission between people in community settings.
An evidence review of face masks against COVID-19
The science around the use of masks by the public to impede COVID-19 transmission is advancing rapidly. In this narrative review, we develop an analytical framework to examine mask usage, synthesizing the relevant literature to inform multiple areas: population impact, transmission...
www.pnas.org
Article that cites work done in the UK about FFP3 masks cutting infection of medical staff treating Covid patients, also states that the simple paper and cloth masks are ineffective for protecting medical staff.
Covid: Masks upgrade cuts infection risk, research finds
Wearing a high grade FFP3 mask can almost entirely protect health workers from Covid, research finds.
www.bbc.co.uk
An article from the Telegraph quoting Dr Colin Axom who is scathing about medic's understanding of how viral particles move and who calls cloth and simple paper masks ineffective comfort blankets.
PressReader.com - Digital Newspaper & Magazine Subscriptions
Digital newsstand featuring 7000+ of the world’s most popular newspapers & magazines. Enjoy unlimited reading on up to 5 devices with 7-day free trial.
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Just to clarify my point about "maskers Vs non maskers" after restriction easing, that was not really something I overly considered until I spoke to a bloke a few nights ago who was taking some awesome photos of the milky way!!! He seemed like a really nice bloke, it was dark, but I'd guess he was either retired or heading that way and he actually seemed a bit nervous in general (I guess I'd be nervous of me in the dark too...) but he was the one that mentioned his worries about life post restriction easing.
I agree with the sentiments about the chat probably being normal, just the platform has changed. I think it's just unfortunate that instead of being the one sceptic in a group of friends and everyone having a good chat about it and maybe you become less sceptical, all of a sudden you're one sceptic in an echo chamber of thousands of other sceptics and even wilder theories can seem less wild.
As for masks in general, I'm on the thinking that anything is better than nothing... If you had to head into gunfire, would you refuse a bullet proof vest because you know if you catch one in the head you're done for anyway? Of course not. One thing I would say is that I've not caught a cold in over a year and I'd normally get a sniffle once a year. Which alternatively also makes me wonder if we're all smashing our immune systems...
I agree with the sentiments about the chat probably being normal, just the platform has changed. I think it's just unfortunate that instead of being the one sceptic in a group of friends and everyone having a good chat about it and maybe you become less sceptical, all of a sudden you're one sceptic in an echo chamber of thousands of other sceptics and even wilder theories can seem less wild.
As for masks in general, I'm on the thinking that anything is better than nothing... If you had to head into gunfire, would you refuse a bullet proof vest because you know if you catch one in the head you're done for anyway? Of course not. One thing I would say is that I've not caught a cold in over a year and I'd normally get a sniffle once a year. Which alternatively also makes me wonder if we're all smashing our immune systems...
I wondered about that too.
I do badly with virus' like chickenpox, flu and the like, but there are a lot of cold buggits that just leave folks a bit unwell but challenge the immune system enough to keep it primed.
I haven't had a cold, sore throat, sniffle in eighteen months now.
I make an effort to eat the weeds, just to keep at least some build up of immunity to background stuff, but it's not the social interaction type diseases.
I think Tengu's right to think it might be a problem to come.
M
I do badly with virus' like chickenpox, flu and the like, but there are a lot of cold buggits that just leave folks a bit unwell but challenge the immune system enough to keep it primed.
I haven't had a cold, sore throat, sniffle in eighteen months now.
I make an effort to eat the weeds, just to keep at least some build up of immunity to background stuff, but it's not the social interaction type diseases.
I think Tengu's right to think it might be a problem to come.
M
With the next lockdown only 5 weeks away, you'd better get out & socialise & get stocked up on some antigens while you can. 
I have an over active immune response. It's not fun, it's kind of scary how fast my body can go from okay to my skin swelling with fluid filled weals so fast that my heart flutters and I struggle to breath.
I have had both doses of the vaccine, but I know that it won't stop me getting the disease, just that I am unlikely to get a severe case of the disease; less likely to need hospitilisation, or a coffin, iimmc ?
I'm working on the principle that avoiding people who are being careless about spreading this disease around to others, is a good thing.
Historically plague takes three years to resolve in these islands. We have evidences of that from the end of the dark ages on. Only smallpox came so quickly again, repeatedly, that it was known to take seven years. Every thing else from falling sickness to plague, three years.....and we've only had eighteen months of this one.
That however takes no account of vaccines or of the speed of modern international travel.....which really was the cause of the spread of all of this in the first place, wasn't it ?
Me, and mine, we'll just ca' canny for a bit longer yet.
I have had both doses of the vaccine, but I know that it won't stop me getting the disease, just that I am unlikely to get a severe case of the disease; less likely to need hospitilisation, or a coffin, iimmc ?
I'm working on the principle that avoiding people who are being careless about spreading this disease around to others, is a good thing.
Historically plague takes three years to resolve in these islands. We have evidences of that from the end of the dark ages on. Only smallpox came so quickly again, repeatedly, that it was known to take seven years. Every thing else from falling sickness to plague, three years.....and we've only had eighteen months of this one.
That however takes no account of vaccines or of the speed of modern international travel.....which really was the cause of the spread of all of this in the first place, wasn't it ?
Me, and mine, we'll just ca' canny for a bit longer yet.
This is exactly, almost word for word, what those who are sceptical of the vaccine, mask wearing, lock downs, infection numbers, severity and origin source, are saying. Those who do not want the vaccine would say that those who have had it, and support vaccination, have bought into a media and government lie and lack critical thinking ability.
There are scientific studies and experts sharing their expertise to support nearly every point of view and counter view.
Just the other day, on another forum, someone opined that they "all we get is cases cases cases, why can't we get some real science about the virus?" I think that the main stream news where this person was was particularly shallow and politically partisan, which didn't help their perspective. I think though that a lot of the sceptics feel that way.
There is a strange conflict between not wanting to take a vaccine because it has been "...approved for emergency use....rushed into existence without all the proper safety checks." and wanting solid, unshakable studies from scientist, with which everyone agrees, without the time needed to create, run, result gather, analyse, publish, peer review and have proven. When a report is published, it is disseminated at speed now, through the internet. Maybe the conclusion contradicts an earlier study, which is hardly news in the world of scientific study, but with Covid it prompts people to pick the study that most closely supports their ideology and to complain that the other study isn't "real" science.
For example, mask wearing. "Do masks work?" seems a simple question, but you can have two polarised camps with different definitions of what "work" means. Those in favour have been in favour from the start and tend to still be in favour, they tend to see masks as a way to lower risk of spreading droplets and protecting those around them, whose masks in turn protect them. Those against have tended to view masks as a ridiculously ineffective means of protecting the wearer and they cite the size of viral particles, gaps around masks, and that you can smell things through a cloth mask. The WHO and governments have flopped around with advice like a fish out of water. It doesn't help that studies and policy derived from the original strain may be less valid when looking at the Delta strain, but that doesn't mean those policies were never effective.
Study published submitted in July 2020 that found that masks cut transmission between people in community settings.
An evidence review of face masks against COVID-19
The science around the use of masks by the public to impede COVID-19 transmission is advancing rapidly. In this narrative review, we develop an analytical framework to examine mask usage, synthesizing the relevant literature to inform multiple areas: population impact, transmission...
Article that cites work done in the UK about FFP3 masks cutting infection of medical staff treating Covid patients, also states that the simple paper and cloth masks are ineffective for protecting medical staff.
Covid: Masks upgrade cuts infection risk, research finds
Wearing a high grade FFP3 mask can almost entirely protect health workers from Covid, research finds.www.bbc.co.uk
An article from the Telegraph quoting Dr Colin Axom who is scathing about medic's understanding of how viral particles move and who calls cloth and simple paper masks ineffective comfort blankets.
PressReader.com - Digital Newspaper & Magazine Subscriptions
Digital newsstand featuring 7000+ of the world’s most popular newspapers & magazines. Enjoy unlimited reading on up to 5 devices with 7-day free trial.
I was wearing respiratory protection since the start of the pandemic, a full three months before the government mandated their use and the reason why I was doing so is based upon human nature or at least the observation of what people do when presented with a noxious gas - they cover their nose, for it to make perfect sense to me to don a mask in these circumstances. In addition I do have NBC training for that to have played a part in my design for that NBC training to have aided in other areas too i.e. decontamination processes. To given I had long since considered this virus will be with us for a few years to come decided if I am going to wear a mask then not only is going to be comfortable but they're also going to be stylish to form an item of clothing perhaps with more use than a neck tie. To have a goodly number of these things now in all colours and patterns, hell I have even got a digital camo version, all of them multi layered, in fact six layers in total, three close weave and three fusible that just get better and better with each wash due to ' flocking ' of fibres. Furthermore being wired, they seal well to always perform a sealing check before I go out and before I go out to indicate I don on the way out of the house and doff when I return so I am not touching my face at any time with potentially contaminated fingers. How do I breathe is such multilayered monstrosities, why yogic breathing of course and to top it all off, I really don't need to be around people at the best of times to have long since learned to keep my distance.
And as regards who to follow out on the web, I tend not to for I have always been an 'oddball' individual to follow my own guiding star.
I am under no illusion that this virus will be done and dusted in the short term, for myself to employ the following principle in order to stay safe
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@Silverclaws2
Yup, the wifey and myself did the same, wore masks as soon as the chaos hit our shores. We got some funny looks in the shops, but couldn't really care less..lo and behold, here we all are some 18months later having worn masks for what? 15 months now?
I don't see that I'll stop, I'm relatively fit (Lockdowns somewhat squashed my fitness a bit! Bad excuse I know), I'm early 30's so probably would be alright, but as others have stated, sometimes it's protecting others around you rather than protecting just yourself. I somewhat like the protection of the mask from others and their unpleasantness... I once saw a guy in the supermarket take his mask off to sneeze (didn't cover his face or anything).. now I've sneezed into my mask, it was gross but yeh, clearly his brain was in neutral.
Yup, the wifey and myself did the same, wore masks as soon as the chaos hit our shores. We got some funny looks in the shops, but couldn't really care less..lo and behold, here we all are some 18months later having worn masks for what? 15 months now?
I don't see that I'll stop, I'm relatively fit (Lockdowns somewhat squashed my fitness a bit! Bad excuse I know), I'm early 30's so probably would be alright, but as others have stated, sometimes it's protecting others around you rather than protecting just yourself. I somewhat like the protection of the mask from others and their unpleasantness... I once saw a guy in the supermarket take his mask off to sneeze (didn't cover his face or anything).. now I've sneezed into my mask, it was gross but yeh, clearly his brain was in neutral.
I am totally fine with wearing masks, as I have said I have made efforts to discover a comfortable design, to have perfected that design and to remove the ' clinical ' from them I have made them in lots of pretty patterns and colours. In terms of age and fitness, I am in my mid fifties to also be immuno-compromised, so there is no way I am giving up what I have become comfortable with, especially not when the liikelihood of death exists for myself if I let my guard down.
And yes I have snotted a mask through sneezing into it. I have also given masks to people struggling with defective masks. as despite making my own six layer affairs, I carry several disposable masks as spares of which I am more than happy to dish out to those that need them.
And yes I have snotted a mask through sneezing into it. I have also given masks to people struggling with defective masks. as despite making my own six layer affairs, I carry several disposable masks as spares of which I am more than happy to dish out to those that need them.
I admit that my family has been very lucky through all this. None of us were living alone, we all get on well with those we live with, no stress there to add to it all. Our pantries were well plenished (Son1's girlfriend and I both squirreled really early the late Summer and Autumn in 2019, no idea why but my husband and Son1 were both rolling eyes at it, and both ended up buying and fitting new shelving) my bother said the same thing about his Missus it wasn't excessive, it was just 'early' and very organised somehow and we all felt it. Both my sons are in work and work sent them both to work from home as soon as it became obvious that there was going to be a problem.
We're quietly comfortable, if now reluctantly accepting that this isn't going to be quickly over.
I miss family and friends, I miss simple things really. I'm incredibly grateful that my family are healthy through this, that we live here, that we do have the NHS, we do have people really trying to make things better for others.
I feel heart sorry for folks who haven't got that quiet calm, who have struggled with more than just restrictions and the like. I have many friends in the 'outdoor industry', many whose livelihood is utterly dependent upon tourism and public venues. Others who are stressed about their children's broken education. I have friends who are teachers and they are trying so hard to see that their pupils do end up with the education they need to do themselves justice in their exams. They're awfully aware of this generation being part of a forced change in the way they have had to learn, to work, etc.,
It's not been easy for any, I know that, but for some of us, it's been easier, iimmc ?
If I feel so intently that I wish it were bye, heaven knows how those folks whose families and lives are in upheaval feel. I can understand the desperation for it to resolve enough that normal service can resume.
For me though, I'll just quietly keep out of the way, live carefully when I have to interact with others or be in a shared public space.
On the up side though, we've all had our double vaccinations, and we're fine after they settled.
I hope the rest of you are fine with yours' too......and we will get out and about properly again
That said, lots of quiet wanders, lots of quiet solitary times and places are being found, lot of folks enjoying taking time to actually see the world around us and the life that's in it. The photo threads here are a pleasure
M
it wasn't excessive, it was just 'early' and very organised somehow and we all felt it. Both my sons are in work and work sent them both to work from home as soon as it became obvious that there was going to be a problem.We're quietly comfortable, if now reluctantly accepting that this isn't going to be quickly over.
I miss family and friends, I miss simple things really. I'm incredibly grateful that my family are healthy through this, that we live here, that we do have the NHS, we do have people really trying to make things better for others.
I feel heart sorry for folks who haven't got that quiet calm, who have struggled with more than just restrictions and the like. I have many friends in the 'outdoor industry', many whose livelihood is utterly dependent upon tourism and public venues. Others who are stressed about their children's broken education. I have friends who are teachers and they are trying so hard to see that their pupils do end up with the education they need to do themselves justice in their exams. They're awfully aware of this generation being part of a forced change in the way they have had to learn, to work, etc.,
It's not been easy for any, I know that, but for some of us, it's been easier, iimmc ?
If I feel so intently that I wish it were bye, heaven knows how those folks whose families and lives are in upheaval feel. I can understand the desperation for it to resolve enough that normal service can resume.
For me though, I'll just quietly keep out of the way, live carefully when I have to interact with others or be in a shared public space.
On the up side though, we've all had our double vaccinations, and we're fine after they settled.
I hope the rest of you are fine with yours' too......and we will get out and about properly again
That said, lots of quiet wanders, lots of quiet solitary times and places are being found, lot of folks enjoying taking time to actually see the world around us and the life that's in it. The photo threads here are a pleasure
M
see #43; clearly one of you is wrong!
Thanks for mentioning that Broch. Actually 100% of us, oldtimer and I, are correct. It all depends on how we've individually weighted the statistical outliers. And, of course, the story we want to tell...
A lot of the covid side of things is mindset. The reality is, it does kill people, I might be fine, I might not. Seatbelts in cars have caused people to be trapped in cars and die in an accident, but I'd rather wear one than not.
I lost my Dad in Feb and one of the most p**s me off things was covid and the lack of time I'd spent with my folks for over a year because of it! My sisters said the same thing, but perception is everything, I told my sisters:
We could have broken covid rules and lost Dad much earlier...
Mum could have died and Dad who was unwell could have been left on his own (which would have polished him off for sure!)
He could have died in hospital alone plugged into all sorts...
On docs hints we broke all the rules for his last few days and were all with him at home when he passed, but given all of us were working from home it was a calculated risk.
Going forward though, I'll be masking it in public places, I don't see a need to stop, even after my second jab in Aug (then I'll be fully 5G ready) I'll still wear a mask.
I think the more people that take even the very modest of precautions the quicker we'd be over this nightmare and the quicker we can get back to rebuilding a better future - then again, maybe pigs will sprout wings and become airborne!
I lost my Dad in Feb and one of the most p**s me off things was covid and the lack of time I'd spent with my folks for over a year because of it! My sisters said the same thing, but perception is everything, I told my sisters:
We could have broken covid rules and lost Dad much earlier...
Mum could have died and Dad who was unwell could have been left on his own (which would have polished him off for sure!)
He could have died in hospital alone plugged into all sorts...
On docs hints we broke all the rules for his last few days and were all with him at home when he passed, but given all of us were working from home it was a calculated risk.
Going forward though, I'll be masking it in public places, I don't see a need to stop, even after my second jab in Aug (then I'll be fully 5G ready
) I'll still wear a mask.I think the more people that take even the very modest of precautions the quicker we'd be over this nightmare and the quicker we can get back to rebuilding a better future - then again, maybe pigs will sprout wings and become airborne!
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