country code

[British Red]

There are several possible outcomes - from at one end fear and loss of condition in the stock (minor), through direct livestock attacks (significant and horrific), through to chasing preganant ewes / cows which can often cause the herd to abort their foetuses (massive financial loss).

I have not known a farmer shoot a dog just for running through a field...they may though give the owner a well deserved ear bashing! The law is clear on the subject that a farmer can shoot a dog actively attacking livestock - but should attempt to capture the animal first, and I am sure that any responisble farmer would try that (most farmers don't routinely wander about with a shotgun in any case)

Certainly though the police are likely to be called - and a criminal prosecution can result under the Dogs (Protection of Livestock) Act 1953 - it is a criminal, as well as a civil matter if it happens.

 

[daveO]

I always go with leaving gates how they're found unless a sign specifically says to keep it shut (or open). Sadly I've seen plenty of people open a gate and leave it open so you can never be sure. Welsh mountain sheep have a reputation for getting past any barrier though, gate or no gate.

 

[boatman]

There are several possible outcomes - from at one end fear and loss of condition in the stock (minor), through direct livestock attacks (significant and horrific), through to chasing preganant ewes / cows which can often cause the herd to abort their foetuses (massive financial loss).

I have not known a farmer shoot a dog just for running through a field...they may though give the owner a well deserved ear bashing! The law is clear on the subject that a farmer can shoot a dog actively attacking livestock - but should attempt to capture the animal first, and I am sure that any responisble farmer would try that (most farmers don't routinely wander about with a shotgun in any case)

Certainly though the police are likely to be called - and a criminal prosecution can result under the Dogs (Protection of Livestock) Act 1953 - it is a criminal, as well as a civil matter if it happens.

Of course, sadly as well as irresponsible dog owners there are farmers and gamekeepers who do shoot dogs without reasonable cause, annoyance isn't sufficient justification.

 

[Goatboy]

I do some volunteering work doing general conservation in an AONB.

The biggest single issue that gets flagged up is the damage done to ground nesting birds by dogs off leads. I also heard over the weekend some awful tales from a pig farmer who lost some piglets.

As Red said, the automatic assumption from dog owners seems to be that common land equals doggie playground.

For the record I like dogs, but some selfish and oblivious owners really do need educating.

P.S. Welcome to the OP and a good first topic to generate some responses!

Hi Stringmaker,

Sorry I had to smile about the dogs and damage to bird populations when you have a pic of a cat as your avatar. I love cats but the are murderous so-and-sos and have crashed the bird population much worse than dogs.

Not having a go by the way, just pointing out that we allow cats free reign to kill but dogs no.

Good thread though lots of interesting points.

Cheers GB.

 

[Elen Sentier]

Goodness! You do seem to have set us all off cm_3594, well done . And :welcome1: if I didn't already say it

 

[dwardo]

Goodness! You do seem to have set us all off cm_3594, well done . And :welcome1: if I didn't already say it

My dog could beat your cat in a fight!



Actually take that back, she recently got it handed to her by a big old ginger Tom.
Even with a gob this big. I guess its not the fight in the dog its the cat in the fight

 

[Stringmaker]

Hi Stringmaker,

Sorry I had to smile about the dogs and damage to bird populations when you have a pic of a cat as your avatar. I love cats but the are murderous so-and-sos and have crashed the bird population much worse than dogs.

Not having a go by the way, just pointing out that we allow cats free reign to kill but dogs no.

Good thread though lots of interesting points.

Cheers GB.

Hah good point!

In defence, I can state that my cat does not kill anything now as he is old and we keep him in overnight.

You were right to point out the implied contradiction.

 

[cyberwolfuk]

cattle are unpredictable, i use to work part time on a farm, i was fixing a wall in the field and someone come into the field with a dog and the cattle stampede and jump the wall i was fixing, i was lucky the tractor was next to me or a could of been trampled to death. i would never take a dog into field where the is cattle for that very reason, not only that if the is cows with calfs the a good chance the cow well charge at you if you got a dog with you!

 

[British Red]

Quite a logical reaction from a herbivore, to what is a carnivorous predator when you think about it. This is why its important to think of animals as animals - one is a "prey" species, one is a predator and conflict is likely - cattle often "turn" on dogs - much the way the a buffalo herd wil turn on a lion.

 

[rik_uk3]

Can we add something about flipping (I'm being polite) idiots in 4X4's tearing up the countryside and giving sensible 'green laners ' a bad name, you know the type

[video=youtube;EbPERR2aybc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbPERR2aybc[/video]

When their landies break down they more than likely do a bit of this

[video=youtube;y46wlnjkCjQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y46wlnjkCjQ[/video]

It is sad to think that we need to empasise the importance of the country code when in fact the code is mainly centred on good common sense, something seemingly lacking with many folk these days

 

[boatman]

One shouldn't be too pessimistic about modern people doing daft things in the countryside. "Jitterbugging in the standing corn" was a pre-war complaint. A cousin of mine when very young apparently pulled off and threw about green tomatoes from my Mother's plants in her cottage garden. Dogs were a perennial problem and gamekeepers were obsessed with trespassers.

 

[SCOMAN]

I married into a farming family and growing up in the city I've always been aware of the 'country code' and remember John Craven's campaign on news round as a kid about controlling dogs round sheep. As in indicator on possible financial losses, a tup/ram was sold for £90,000 at last years sales over in the west coast, I believe it's twin went for £60,000. When you hear figures like that it's understandable why someone want's to take a gun to a loose dog. I'm not saying that every dog loose amongst sheep is going to rip a throat out but the sheep running in fear can and do have cardiacs, rip themselves on barbed wire in an effort to get away, get hit by cars if they make it to the road etc etc. It makes sense to me I'm afraid. On a slightly different subject we've always been informed by the Dog control officer unless your dog is on a lead it's not in control irrespective of whether he returns at a whistle or call.

 

[British Red]

Here is a thought Scoman, did you know that it is a criminal offence to for a dog to

be at large (that is to say not on a lead or otherwise under close control) in a field or enclosure in which there are sheep

?

It doesn't have to be attacking - just off the lead and not under "close control" (e.g. carried). Surprising the number of dog walkers who don't know that!

 

[SCOMAN]

Now that I didn't know. How many times have I seen that.

 

[Niels]

Here is a thought Scoman, did you know that it is a criminal offence to for a dog to


?

It doesn't have to be attacking - just off the lead and not under "close control" (e.g. carried). Surprising the number of dog walkers who don't know that!

I doubt that law is actually enforced as shepherding dogs are at large in fields with sheep all the time.

 

[British Red]

I doubt that law is actually enforced as shepherding dogs are at large in fields with sheep all the time.

They thought of that

this section shall not apply in relation to:
(a)a dog owned by, or in the charge of, the occupier of the field or enclosure or the owner of the sheep or a person authorised by either of those persons; or
(b)a police dog, a guide dog, trained sheep dog, a working gun dog or a pack of hounds.]

 

[boatman]

Define a field, moorland or Down would not be defined as a field. Dog to heel is under close control. Funny that a pack of hounds is exempt given the record of packs for attacking domestic animals. If a dog loose in a field is bad then how much worse is a pack loose in a garden?

 

[jackcbr]

Thanks Red

Although I do wonder how I would react if my dog somehow slipped the lead and chased sheep in a field. Not being a farmer or connected with farming in any way (shame really) what are the effects "possible" or guaranteed of a dog chasing sheep? I am honestly interested to hear, what are the possible financial losses etc?
I would certainly have trouble with someone opening both barrels upon seeing my dog running through a farmers field. I guess it would be a different matter if there was no chance of recovering the dog or if it was hanging off the neck of a poor sheep or other animal. Accidents happen and to assume the dog is fair game and has categorically caused damage does not sit well with me. If there was any damage to sheep or lambs I would certainly expect to be sued and made to cover the farmers losses, only fair.
Shooting my dog on-site for running though a field sheep or not and (insert physical assault based inflammatory response here)
Very emotive subject and one I certainly dont want to de-rail this thread.

as some have stated, ewes can abort from stress and exhaustion. Lambs and ewes injured may need to be put down.

as for cost, well a lamb butchered and sold by the farmer may go for about £70-80. A ewe can produce on average 2 lambs a year for 5 to 8 years (potentially £1,280 from each ewe and the possibility of more breading ewes from that original ewe). A ram of good stock can be sold or rented out for hundreds.

add to that a minimum of £50 to call a vet out to treat injuries and then to pay for disposal of dead or put down animals. Vaccinations, scans, government paperwork from breading the animal plus extra time tending to injuries. You can see how it can quickly add up.

So you see, a dog running around your field without someone trying to stop it could potentially cost a farmer thousands, but insurance will only cover market value of the animal, in other words bugger all in comparison.

its not a decision taken lightly to shoot a dog and more often than not the farmer won't have a gun on them or see the attack. However, we had repeated attacks so had no option other than to wait for another attack and deal with it. A very hard thing to do as we are dog lovers, but were unable to capture it or identify the owner. To this day the owner has never come forward and we lost several in-lamb ewes that year and more still borns.

So without getting emotional or wanting to aggravate the situation, please, regardless of how much you trust your dog, if there is any chance of livestock being in the area, keep your dog on a lead.

 

[boatman]

Anyone know how to delete one's posts?

 

[dwardo]

as some have stated, ewes can abort from stress and exhaustion. Lambs and ewes injured may need to be put down.

as for cost, well a lamb butchered and sold by the farmer may go for about £70-80. A ewe can produce on average 2 lambs a year for 5 to 8 years (potentially £1,280 from each ewe and the possibility of more breading ewes from that original ewe). A ram of good stock can be sold or rented out for hundreds.

add to that a minimum of £50 to call a vet out to treat injuries and then to pay for disposal of dead or put down animals. Vaccinations, scans, government paperwork from breading the animal plus extra time tending to injuries. You can see how it can quickly add up.

So you see, a dog running around your field without someone trying to stop it could potentially cost a farmer thousands, but insurance will only cover market value of the animal, in other words bugger all in comparison.

its not a decision taken lightly to shoot a dog and more often than not the farmer won't have a gun on them or see the attack. However, we had repeated attacks so had no option other than to wait for another attack and deal with it. A very hard thing to do as we are dog lovers, but were unable to capture it or identify the owner. To this day the owner has never come forward and we lost several in-lamb ewes that year and more still borns.

So without getting emotional or wanting to aggravate the situation, please, regardless of how much you trust your dog, if there is any chance of livestock being in the area, keep your dog on a lead.

Thanks for the information, very "interesting" wrong word but I hope you get the idea. I had guessed at the market price for the animal but not the breeding price and associated costs. Would be great to not have to keep my dog on a lead all the time but alas she is far too stupid with an over-ruling prey drive.