Climate Change & Survival.

[Lean'n'mean]

Please read the links i put up, the medieval warm period was global. The little ice age was global. The Roman warm period affected Britain, as grapes were first grown here at that time. Solar cycles do not have regional affects.

The Eddy solar cycle (circa 1000 years) correlates to the dates of each. At maximum during the roman period, at min during the dark ages, max at medieval period, min during little ice age, and rising towards its maximum now. 500 years between each peak and trough, 1000 years between each peak.

Roman warm period peaked 100ce, medieval peaked 1100ce, modern period will peak around 2100.

Dark age cold period bottomed out around 600ce, little ice age bottomed out around 1600ce.

I think you'll find modern research has concluded that the past climatic phenomena you mention, ( often thrown on the table by man-induced global warming sceptics trying to prove that the current climate change is due to natural causes) were in fact regional & not global. Or if you prefer, their effects were only felt by a part of the earth & not globally.

If we take the 'Medieval Warm Period" for example, though Europe may have benefited from a milder climate at the time, ice activity around the North Atlantic was only marginally less than during the 'Mini Ice age'...(which of course was not a true ice age)
Additioning the parts of the globe which were much cooler at the time than today, such as the tropical pacific, the global temperature is estimated to be equivalent to that of the mid 20th century & in all likelyhood, temperatures today across the northern hemisphere are warmer now than they were during the M.W.P.
During the 'Roman Warm Period' the warming of the Mediterranean sea did affect the climate throughout a large part of the Roman Empire' & of course grapes were first grown at this period in England, since vines were introduced by the Romans, who also had the wine making knowledge that the Britons didn't have. But it would be misleading to suggest that the UK had a mediterranean climate at the time, when in reality the weather was prehaps no different than a good English summer today. The extreme weather events that now regularly occur in the Mediterranean regions, far exceed anything that those who lived during this Roman period experienced, which was a period of relative climatic stability, always a bonus when creating a civilisation.

But all that is beside the point, other than to illustrate that the climate has changed in the past without man's help, which no one denies, it can't be used as evidence that our current climate woes are not due to human activity . Comparing past climatic changes, ( which all had different causes such as solar activity, variations in the Earth's orbit, inclination of it's axis to changes in ocean currents or the jet stream,) the causes of which cannot account for today's rising global temperature, is like comparing cancer with heart disease. It isn't because the earth was hotter 800 million years ago that the same factors are generating today's global warming.

 

[ManFriday4]

Americans learn skills to survive the climate crisis – in a wilderness course

Societal breakdown has not arrived, but the contours of such a collapse aren’t too hard to imagine – which is why some are taking part in a survival course

www.theguardian.com

 

[ManFriday4]

The real question is can we survive it and if so how, & how many can survive and what is definitely is this we can't solve it by insulting each other and make belief. Read the science, if I get a date wrong so what, how many times did you fall to get a fire going or get bowdrill right 1st time?

 

[Woody girl]

I don't think they were burning oil and coal the way we do now , pushing the amount of extra pollution into the skies in those days either.
No trains, electricity generation, cars, powered boats, airplanes, tractors, pesticides, plastic production or internet.
We have a throw away society, which they didn't have in roman or medieval times.
Wars were not fought with tanks and explosives, all adding to the mess.
That we have trashed our planet, with our modern lifestyle, there is no argument.
People think this is how things should be. We demand more, more, more. I have no understanding of that mentality.
It's hard work divesting myself of so much modern trappings that add to the mess. But at least I'm trying, without making life too hard .compromises are nessasary, but I'm still looking for ways to live even more sustainably every day.
I think most humans are in for a terrible and rude awakening someday.
We are long overdue a reset.

 

[TLM]

For the people of Lahaina, Hawaii- climate change destroyed their town

What did the damage was local electricity company who did not cut power before their grounded lines had lit the fires and a state bureaucrat who did not allow water for extinguishing for "ideological" reasons, according to him it is not traditional to use water for dousing fires. Last I read he was sidelined but for some reason not whipped.

 

[ManFriday4]

Nature Restoration is a solution available for all of us, imagine growing your foraging wilderness and improving its abundance, not just in yiur backyarrd.

Our rivers are fullnof sewage, but if they had Typha growing in them they wouldn't be so polluted.

Growing typha in Luffas makes them transplantable..

https://flic.kr/p/2p12quJ

Typha Moninima is endangered,

https://flic.kr/p/2p17EkY

Duck potato, marginal edible staple. Endangered.

https://flic.kr/p/2p17ENb

All are edible to humans all are wetland species and easy to grow.

 

[Woody girl]

What did the damage was local electricity company who did not cut power before their grounded lines had lit the fires and a state bureaucrat who did not allow water for extinguishing for "ideological" reasons, according to him it is not traditional to use water for dousing fires. Last I read he was sidelined but for some reason not whipped.

There were many factors, some of which are related to climate change, others, probably the majority, i will sadly say, related to human greed and incompetence, with no regard to human life.
There are lots of rumours, and truth blocking, lives destroyed for greed.
THAT, is mankind's problem, which blinds them to all else.
We have become too comfortable, and just want more, it will be the undoing of humans. Its always been the same since the beginning of man's history. We just don't know where to stop, and will subjugate others to get the latest fashionable or comfort item.
Often we are unaware of how our actions impact on others, often halfway across the world, slavery for that nice diamond or bit of gold for a loved ones engagement ring for instance, or that cheap pair of jeans, ot t shirt, made in a sweat shop somewhere.
When you realy look, our world is ruled by greed, and vice, even if it's not immediately visable and apparent.

 

[nigelp]

Unfortunately, opinions don't cut it when it comes to science.

I find it rather hilarious that preppers are prepping for nuclear war- which will change the climate.

But not one single UK prepper youtube channel talks about how we survive the currently changing climate and some people on here think that the climate related links on here are spam. Perhaps they should report my posts.

@Le Loup asked a question about Climate Change & the response he got was to be shouted down.

And I get the same response.

Suggesting that this is because of social media is a very poor excuse for a group which aparently concentrates on survival skills.

Actually the reason people behave like this is to shut down conversation which make them uncomfortable & challenge their world view. For the people of Lahaina, Hawaii- climate change destroyed their town & the same is true for the 20,000 people living in the Northewst Territory, Canada.

So tell us survival experts how do we survive the collapse of agriculture & seeds not germinating due to heat, droughts Plpluvial rainstorms, oversized hail? This is an expert forum?

There are some very skilled people here.

Maybe stop fuelling the monotonous thread drift and and bring it back to survival and bushcraft, or move along and contribute to threads that relate to bushcraft.

 

[ManFriday4]

Maybe stop fuelling the monotonous thread drift and and bring it back to survival and bushcraft, or move along and contribute to threads that relate to bushcraft.

I have been.

 

[ManFriday4]

Maybe stop fuelling the monotonous thread drift and and bring it back to survival and bushcraft, or move along and contribute to threads that relate to bushcraft.

And posting positive ways in which we can respond to our predicament.

I so sorry you find the 6th mass extinction so boring.

 

[ManFriday4]

Maybe stop fuelling the monotonous thread drift and and bring it back to survival and bushcraft, or move along and contribute to threads that relate to bushcraft.

Also look at the OP, it was about Climate change. I have steered it back to climate change.

 

[Woody girl]

I notice that the op was attacked so rudely, he has not, as far as I can determine, posted again. We have lost a valued member with vast experience due to that.
Anyone who posts here trying to discuss climate change gets treated just as badly.
Isn't that rather sad?

Perhaps those naysayers could find something else to talk about on another thread, rather than attacking people's views that don't correspond with theirs and trying to belittle them publicly.
Leave this thread to those who wish to exchange solutions to what they are awake enough to see, and stop trolling them for a transient smug feeling that you might have shut down a nutter!
You havnt, and won't!
We are all entitled to our opinions, true, but its not nice what is happening on here of late. All it does is alienate those who have genuine concerns, like Le Loup, and the forum is poorer for it.
There are man y threads to life, and all are valid to someone, it does little to rubbish another's view, except cause upset and hurt.

 

[Herman30]

state bureaucrat who did not allow water for extinguishing for "ideological" reasons, according to him it is not traditional to use water for dousing fires.

Hope he´s not from Hawaii; islands surrounded by water.

 

[Woody girl]

Hope he´s not from Hawaii; islands surrounded by water.

He actualy turned it off.
There is a lot more to this than meets the eye. Someone wanted that area to burn, and not have to pay compensation to any survivors. They had been trying to buy up the area and turn it into a sleek playground for the rich. Locals refused.
Very convenient that it happend during a high wind event, and the roads were blocked to stop people fleeing by police roadblocks, manned by "non local "police. They were told to turn round back towards the flames, yet the sirens were not sounded to warn people as they feared that people, trained to run to higher ground in case of sunami would run into the flames........would you? Would you not see what was happening?
Fundraisers are being attacked with lies on line. Accused of pocketing monies raised, despite showing it being handed over to churches in videos.
Us navy was only 12 hrs away with disaster supplies but were NOT ALLOWED to deploy. Despite pleas from senior navy comanders
People from neighbouring islands bringing food, water, and medical supplies were turned away.
Within 24 hrs of the fire, even before damping down was complete, Black Rock, the ones who had been trying to buy up the area and not succeeding, were phoning survivors ,still trying to process their trauma, find missing loved ones, and having lost everything, were phoning them to offer paltry amounts for their land.
Government has offered $700 to each survivors to "help rebuild their lives and properties.
Funerals were being charged at $8,000per person.
Fishy????

 

[Woody girl]

De facto ban on onshore windfalls lifted.
Was anyone aware that since 2015 just one single objection would stop a turbine being erected. Even if the majority of local people wanted it. Despite it being the cheapest alternative energy option? We could have been having cheaper energy for years! Instead the gov have pushed fossil fuel as the best option. Because they have their fingers in the fossil fuel pie.
Makes me mad,! but let's hope this is progressed, and more are able to be built now.

 

[Broch]

Actually, some notable politicians have big investments in wind turbine companies

The manufacturing cost in energy, materials and environmental damage is surprisingly higher than you might think; they are a political solution as much as anything else. The power generated will not be 'cheap' and not as much 'cleaner' as media science would have you believe.

Don't get me wrong, I don't have an answer, but I actually think this is not necessarily a good thing. And no, it took years of campaigning and a large body of people to stop the expansion of a huge wind farm in this area and the associated pylons; a single person would never have stopped it.

 

[TLM]

Wind energy is fairly "clean", windmills are definitely not.

 

[Woody girl]

Actually, some notable politicians have big investments in wind turbine companies

The manufacturing cost in energy, materials and environmental damage is surprisingly higher than you might think; they are a political solution as much as anything else. The power generated will not be 'cheap' and not as much 'cleaner' as media science would have you believe.

Don't get me wrong, I don't have an answer, but I actually think this is not necessarily a good thing. And no, it took years of campaigning and a large body of people to stop the expansion of a huge wind farm in this area and the associated pylons; a single person would never have stopped it.

So, both radio 4 and the independent got it wrong about the law stating (since 2015) if one person objected, a turbine or solar array could not be sanctioned and built?
Oh, that's real bad journalism feeding the public such lies.

Edit, sorry, I meant the guardian, not the Independent.

 

[Broch]

I can only speak from first hand experience of a group trying to stop a development - I doubt very much if a single person could cause the building of windfarms to stop. Don Quixote never managed to beat the windmills

I was also involved in trying to stop a large wind turbine being built on a farm close to my parents' house. It was far bigger than the farm needed, was an eyesore, and noisy - we failed. So, another example of more than one person failing to stop the installation of a wind turbine.

What I suspect the media meant was that a single person can object thereby requiring a planning review - or something like that. But, of course, truth gets distorted in politics and the media.

 

[TeeDee]

I can only speak from first hand experience of a group trying to stop a development - I doubt very much if a single person could cause the building of windfarms to stop. Don Quixote never managed to beat the windmills

I was also involved in trying to stop a large wind turbine being built on a farm close to my parents' house. It was far bigger than the farm needed, was an eyesore, and noisy - we failed. So, another example of more than one person failing to stop the installation of a wind turbine.

What I suspect the media meant was that a single person can object thereby requiring a planning review - or something like that. But, of course, truth gets distorted in politics and the media.

Was he in the Godfather films?