Climate Change & Survival.

[ManFriday4]

Our predicament is more complex than thinking we can replace fossil fuels in an economy addicted to fossil fuels.

Wind, PV & other renewable energy systems don't suck co2 out of the atmosphere & require more fossil fuels for their manufacture, this is why civilisation is facing collapse.

 

[ManFriday4]

I have no rank to pull. I was trying to point out what I've noticed over the years on social media - long posts with loads of links tend to be ignored or ridiculed regardless of their content. If you wish to convince people to do something you need to work on getting your point across.

Apologies.

Do you know why Tiktok is so popular? Because it plays into the dopamine addiction which works well with a short attention span.

"Long posts with links get ridiculed regardless of their content" does actually explain alot. - Thank you.

I'm afraid Tiktok style delivery is not possible with complex subjects. This suggests to me that most people would not be able to grasp complex tasks & knowledge if I was trying to explain something else?

I think the problem actually is that some people can't handle a challenge to their world view, especially and existential challenge.

 

[ManFriday4]

That's where I come from aswell. I have similar background homeless in the late 70s, to since the 1980s.
I've had a smallholding , and am now volunteering one day a week on one.
I've lived outside most of my life in one way or another, from being a horsey child, to nowadays a bushcraft and wilderness enthusiast.
I have a diploma in permaculture, I've worked as a volenteer for btcv, dartmoor rangers, , small woodlands and have qualifications in forestry. I've done archaeology, trained as an outdoor sports instructor, and much more. No desk jockey job for me!
I have realy noticed the climate change, as I spend so much time outside, and try to live a life that does not rely on modernity to function.
I think, apart from missing fresh milk and tea bags, if things went bell up, I'm pretty self sufficient, and only buy stuff nowadays that works in a "grid down for weeks" scenario.
I live a good and busy life, even if it takes me much longer to do something than it would for others. It gets done.
Busy making things all the time. Today, I made buttons from wood, knitted a few more rows of a tea cosy, and started excavating a new veg bed in the last neglected part of the garden....I've been at it for two days so far on and off, and I say excavating, as I'm finding all sorts of things, from metal grids, to spanners, and even one of those plastic builders bags!!
I will get it done by and by, even though its probably half a days work for a fit person.
Little by little, I will become much more self sufficient.
My fun light moment for the day, was going for a paddle in the river, to catch minnows with a kids fishing net, and watching horrified as my friend fell in fully clothed.! Then we lay on the grass cloudwatching and discovering dogs and faces etc in them while we dried out.
Not all doom and gloom, make time for simple joys that cost nothing.

I hate all those boring dam links aswell! Anything can be proved by linking to something that agrees with your particular world view (take the mmr vaccine furor years ago, which "scientifically"linked it to autism, which the guy eventualy admitted was a complete fraud) and I often find it a bit of a "tactic" to put someone down, and make the poster seem superior, as they " have read a learned peer reviewed article." which means it gets ignored anyway.
Which that means it works against the intention.
Anyway Broc, truce..for now!!!

The links often better describe/explain the opinions.

 

[Broch]

I really don't understand why a conversation/discussion on an important topic has to turn to personal insults and derogation.

No, people are not going to jump to and read every link posted because they have, usually, done their own research. The fact they may have come to a different conclusion does not matter - discussion, without insults, leads to mediation and conclusion. Even if the conclusion (often the case on this forum) is to agree to differ. No one here has the right to believe they are correct and must change the views of others; this is not a pulpit!

 

[ManFriday4]

I really don't understand why a conversation/discussion on an important topic has to turn to personal insults and derogation.

No, people are not going to jump to and read every link posted because they have, usually, done their own research. The fact they may have come to a different conclusion does not matter - discussion, without insults, leads to mediation and conclusion. Even if the conclusion (often the case on this forum) is to agree to differ. No one here has the right to believe they are correct and must change the views of others; this is not a pulpit!

I get it.

I perhaps come from a different back ground where opinions are not always correct, but I am also aware enough to know that some people don't even trust science, but are happy to drive cars? I'm not poiting the finger at cars saying they are bad, I'm questioning the disconnect.

It seems there is a small minority of people "daring enough to talk about Climate change here & the possibility that nature and humanity might be in dire straights and we are met with the most ludicrous behaviour & some of us have been aware of changes innthe environment. We absolutely should be talking about it & at least trying to understand why it's happening?

I apologised for being a bit triggered.

I stopped doing ecology because the destruction was too much..

 

[ManFriday4]

@Broch like to think we are all old and experienced enough to know something is up with a climate.

back in 2010/I was tracking hybrid otters on river & canal, asking why/how the explosion & why were they neocurious?

I met biologists sampling poop for genetics & tracking hybrids & their introduction zones.

The reasons they expanded was due to the explosion of Signal Crayfish.

 

[ManFriday4]

@Broch like to think we are all old and experienced enough to know something is up with a climate.

back in 2010/I was tracking hybrid otters on river & canal, asking why/how the explosion & why were they neocurious?

I met biologists sampling poop for genetics & tracking hybrids & their introduction zones.

The reasons they expanded was due to the explosion of Signal Crayfish.

But I'm not preaching, jut pointingnout something we as trackers/bushcrafters/nature lovers might be missing out on and its already affecting us.

Ray Mears agrees, is that nit reason enough?

 

[ManFriday4]

The cray fish have taken over and out competed almost everything else.

This is how we interfere I'm nature and make a mess. Except now the ice caps are melting & not refreezing but people seem to still think we are heading into an ice age?

Opinions and actualities are 2 different things. We are in our 3rd heatwave this year. How us humanity going to survive this mess if we don't actually think its happening or you think it's a scam or a hoax?

 

[Lean'n'mean]

back in 2010/I was tracking hybrid otters on river & canal, asking why/how the explosion & why were they neocurious?

Sorry, have to ask , what are hybrid otters ? And what is neocurious ?

 

[ManFriday4]

We all come here to learn something @Le Loup asked a genuine question.

Perhaps look at the evidence. You see u don't think the response had anything to do with lots of links,, I get it we need to make excuses dor our uncooth friends ,but look at the evidence.

Ask indigenous people from whom all these skills we do come from about industrialisation & Climate change and how it has helped or impacted them? There aren't many left? What happened to them is really important, because it will likely happen to us too.

Then we can have a discussion about how we survive the uncertain future?

 

[Suffolkrafter]

I think it's important that people actually assess the benefits to the environment by looking at the science rather than reading the daily newspapers (I'm not accusing you of doing that, just people in general).

This is a serious and general issue that goes way beyond the subject of turbines and climate change. I.e, where do we generally get our information from and how do we process it?
We should all absolutely look at the science and detail of things in as much depth as possible, but we also have to be realistic, and there are two difficulties. The first is that there are so many topics on which we need to form opinions, that it isn't possible for most people to spend enough time educating themselves. Secondly not everyone has the skills to process scientific information in a scientific way. And yet everyone's opinion is important when it comes to election time and decision making, on both a personal and global level.

I see this problem played out in my own field, pharmaceuticals. It's a vastly complex industry. I work in a particular aspect of it and yet I can't claim to understand the entire field. As a pharmaceutical scientist, I can't make a personal decision on (for example) the safety or efficacy of this or that drug (unless I'm privy to particular information perhaps). I have to take the word of the regulator and government agencies and people whose specific job (and expertise) it is to process and collate the necessary information, as there is no alternative. When I see people forming their own opinions - which of course they have every right to - it does leave me saddened and somewhat horrified, as I know that their opinion can't hold much weight, and ultimately, may harm them. And I mean this with no disrespect or condescension whatsoever.

I'm not sure what the answer to this problem is, other than to read as widely as possible and hope for the best. Ultimately, we live in a world where disinformation, polarization and tribalism pays, and this is what needs reversing.

 

[Wander]

Man Friday, I'm really sorry, but could you kindly go somewhere else and have your nervous breakdown.
You're using the climate debate as a surrogate for something else that is causing you anxiety. You also display narcissistic/BPD traits. This is all developing into OCD.*
You are damaging yourself.
Sorry.


*Oh, for what it's worth - I work in mental health. I know what I'm talking about. Of course, without sitting down with an individual one can't give an exact diagnosis, but I reckon I'm in the right ball park. Seen loads of it.

 

[TeeDee]

Man Friday, I'm really sorry, but could you kindly go somewhere else and have your nervous breakdown.
You're using the climate debate as a surrogate for something else that is causing you anxiety. You also display narcissistic/BPD traits. This is all developing into OCD.*
You are damaging yourself.
Sorry.


*Oh, for what it's worth - I work in mental health. I know what I'm talking about. Of course, without sitting down with an individual one can't give an exact diagnosis, but I reckon I'm in the right ball park. Seen loads of it.

That doesn't seem a very 'you' thing to do Wander. Bit surprised.

 

[Wander]

I do various things.
I'm also a freelance writer/journalist.
And also a part-time/sessional university lecturer in English literature.
The mental health work is as an arts therapist, using language and writing.

 

[TeeDee]

@ManFriday4

I haven't really been following or reading this thread and have no 'dog in the fight' - but advice from an impartial observer - you really are not going to do yourself any favours by shot gunning the thread with a myriad of shortened paragraphs as opposed to a more considered longer detailed post explaining your position , your belief , your evidence and then allowing an amount of time to pass before coming back and responding in a more methodical manner.

 

[ManFriday4]

I do various things.
I'm also a freelance writer/journalist.
And also a part-time/sessional university lecturer in English literature.
The mental health work is as an arts therapist, using language and writing.

Man Friday, I'm really sorry, but could you kindly go somewhere else and have your nervous breakdown.
You're using the climate debate as a surrogate for something else that is causing you anxiety. You also display narcissistic/BPD traits. This is all developing into OCD.*
You are damaging yourself.
Sorry.


*Oh, for what it's worth - I work in mental health. I know what I'm talking about. Of course, without sitting down with an individual one can't give an exact diagnosis, but I reckon I'm in the right ball park. Seen loads of it.

I really don't know how to respond to this.

However I know 2 Dr's from who have been arrested during the XR scientists revolt and no struck off.

Climate change is an anxiety inducing disorder. I don't have that

However I did spend 8 years working as an RMN, I have taken early retirement. I worked on acute wards. You know the ones where patients are detained. I have sat in on hundreds of MHAs.

As an art therapist you only work with the patients who are nor any risk to you and good thing too.

As an art therapist you have no business commenting on anyone's mental state. You might have an opinion but certainly not a professional one and certainly not on someone you barely know.


This is the 2nd time you have mentioned my mental health.


Kindly comment on the post and make no further personal slights against me.

 

[Wander]

OK, my apologies if I spoke inadvertently, but my heart is truly out there for you and I truly wish you all the best.

 

[ManFriday4]

OK, my apologies if I spoke inadvertently, but my heart is truly out there for you and I truly wish you all the best.

Accepted.

But there certainly is a discussion to be had about the severe heat and the impact it will have in the near future..

I don't obsess about Climate change, we all take time out now and again, but this year particularly the woods are like a tinder box and the trees are stressed.

A man was killed locally when a beech shed a branch, something they do in drought conditions. These events though a direct result of climate change are not recorded as such.

This umyear and last year wildlife was struggling in the heat too.

I'd be interested in exploring why you are so hostile towards me/climate change, perhaps this is the perfect place for that?

 

[Herman30]

because again weather is mistaken for climate.

Simple rule of thumb.

Weather you can see by loking out the window.
Climate you can only see by reading statistics.

 

[ManFriday4]

Simple rule of thumb.

Weather you can see by loking out the window.
Climate you can only see by reading statistics.

Climate is a trend based weather pattern & temperature range over a longbperiod of time (decades, centuries & millenia for example the neolithic revolution required a warmer climate than the glacial maximum could offer.

From climate data, which isnt necessarily statistical weather can be forecast, sometimes even predicted.

When the climate changes abruptly its impact is usually catastrophic for life. We know this because it has occurred before when Earth has received impacts from Space. Or simulations of a nuclear winter. Another way to affect the climate is to push excessive green house gases into the atmosphere.

When you understand the science, thumb rules are irrelevant.