carrying of bushcraft knives when out and about - Design Ideas

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sirysghost

Maker
Mar 14, 2016
56
0
lancs
Www.wildblades.co.uk
Pondering some time issue of carrying bushcraft knives in transit. I know they would be in bottom of bergan etcetc but I still feel out in public yu could be at risk of prosecution. .. I've been looking at designing sheath where fire steel can lock through lanyard. .. any thoughts.... this I feel would prove no desire to have the blade for quick weaponized access

Www.wildblades.co.uk
 

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mick91

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
May 13, 2015
2,064
7
Sunderland
Personally I'm a sheath on the hip when I'm actually at a site. So long as you have a good reason to have it, and it isn't a prohibited knife (balisong, stiletto, gravity knife trench knife etc) you're good. I've been stopped before and the officer who I can only assume was a shooting man looked at it for 5 and asked me where I got it and started drawing comparisons to his buck alpha. Common sense usually prevails.
 

ol smokey

Full Member
Oct 16, 2006
433
2
Scotland
I have a loop of para cord on my knife, and it is just long enough to pass over the leather holder for the fire steel, and
once this is done, I put the fire steel through the holder to lock the cord to the sheath. I know that this is not a full
answer, but like you say, it helps to show that you do not intend to be drawing the knife in a hurry. I hope that I have
explained this so as to be easily understood. It means, that the fire steel must be drawn first to release the knife.
Just a thought. I know that it is commonly stated that the bottom of your sack is the place to carry your knife but
i have also read that even having your knife in the boot (trunk) of your car is considered the same as having it on your
person. It would appear to depend on the aggressiveness of the constable, weather this would be the case. Any thing
that helps to indicate that you do not have the knife to hand with evil intent, is bound to go in your favour.
Most knife attacks tend to be with kitchen knives because they are cheap and easily obtained, and on the whole the
Police will be aware if that. However, a lot of wood- be wild campers seem to need to have a booze up when camping
and drink and knives do not go well together. If you are attired for the woods and have your stove tent and other gear
with you, it should be obvious that you are not heading to town looking for trouble, but have the knife as a tool, as it
is intended to be, but can you take that chance ? There have been instances fairly recently, where gangs of louts
from the City have been camping wild, and getting involved in battles with machetes and axes, in the countryside near me
and a friend's son, had to abandon his camping trip, incase he and his pals were attacked or involved. There just doesn't
seem to be any way, where decent well behaved folk can prove that they have no evil intent if they are in possession of
a knife, unless it is required for their work, and they are going to or from work.
 
Sep 11, 2014
418
33
Maidstone, KENT
...... issue of carrying bushcraft knives in transit.....
Www.wildblades.co.uk

The idea is sound. Having a 'good reason' to carry doesn't provide a legal 'right', just an acceptable legal defence.
The harder it is to access while in transit, the more solid that defence.

Whether or not it's necessary depends on lots of other things like who you are and where you are.

Travelling by car, I keep blades in a locked box in the boot. Once I arrive, I'm with Mick91 - hang it on the hip !
 

sirysghost

Maker
Mar 14, 2016
56
0
lancs
Www.wildblades.co.uk
Thank you all for your thoughts... given me some things to consider.... I've heard some horror stories where common sense has not been deployed by law enforcement re knives

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boatman

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Feb 20, 2007
2,444
4
78
Cornwall
Let's all panic yet again shall we? Reasonable excuse is an absolute. Cases have decided, for example, that you do not have to scurry back and forth between home and where you do legal bushcraft but may indeed break the journey to go shopping, for example.
 
Sep 11, 2014
418
33
Maidstone, KENT
Let's all panic yet again shall we? Reasonable excuse is an absolute. Cases have decided, for example, that you do not have to scurry back and forth between home and where you do legal bushcraft but may indeed break the journey to go shopping, for example.

It's not panicking to consider how best to demonstrate to a police officer who doesn't know you, that you are a responsible law abiding citizen. In the current climate anyone not considering these matters has their head in the sand. Good luck travelling through a main-line Rail Station with a knife on your hip....

....
Whether or not it's necessary depends on lots of other things like who you are and where you are.
...

I would suggest that a young person living in a troubled inner city area would be well advised to go to considerable lengths in this regard.
Whereas a middle aged man living in a rural area, wearing a Barbour with binoculars hanging off the front, probably doesn't have to be so concerned.
 

sirysghost

Maker
Mar 14, 2016
56
0
lancs
Www.wildblades.co.uk
I know of two cases where reason was ignored and a person was prosecuted. .. and it's at the discretion of the police officer and even if you have a 3 inch non lock folder it can still drop you in it if presenting wrong. .. I think to and from bushcraft site esp on public transport it wud behoove you to show maximum effort to not make it accessible

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Tomteifi

Nomad
Jan 22, 2016
294
16
Carmarthenshire, South Wales
'Fraid not old boy; they are only needed in the UK to search certain buildings. However, the police here need reasonable cause to believe certain facts before they search you and/or your immediate belongings in public. e.g. you have committed some offence or are about/trying to. That you certainly may do. Its all about what it is and where/who how/possibilities in the circumstances etc. Any knife at all is considered a weapon. Its intended/possible/probable use - its size/design/sharpness/build all enter the equation. That apart for a bit- you could walk in any shop with any sorts of items that when broken would/could make a very sharp edge/point and that would also in certain circs. become a weapon. Take a stick-don't sharpen it and it could be a club-sharpen the end of it and it could be a spear-sharpen one side of it and it could be a knife. Shave it down to itsy bits and it could start a fire. Its all in the circs. and intended use. Kids used to keep iced lolly sticks in the 50's and sixty's to make various little machines from them and by the same token-in those days the way to open a stubborn old car door lock was with one of those!! Safe to say your typical bushcraft sheathed knife in your pack is within the law-assuming you are not shopping at a supermarket or carrying out some other public chore. If you were silly enough to wear it on you while doing such and were stopped and searched-you would have no lawful excuse and would suffer the consequences. That's what its all about.

ps The only thing that is 'at the discretion of the police officer' is whether he thinks you have a lawful excuse or not to be carrying whatever it is in those circs. All he can do is lock you up and spoil your day/weekend/whatever. Its for a court to decide if you had it lawfully or not. BIG BUT HERE... this is one of the very few areas of british law where you are, in fact guilty until proven innocent; as the law assumes you had it for some nefarious reason unless you come up with a reasonable(in the circumstances) excuse. Archaic isn't it?
 
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Bishop

Full Member
Jan 25, 2014
1,717
691
Pencader
Does anybody know what happened in the case of Matthew Wood ?
A wild camper caught with arrows, knives and an axe in a tourist town street is to argue in court that his armoury was not illegal.
“I had them because I was wild camping. The police just took a dislike to my face. They tried to get me for poaching, and when they realised they couldn’t do that, they arrested me for this.”
http://www.stirlingnews.co.uk/news/...axe_is_set_to_argue_he_had_reasonable_excuse/
 

rancid badger

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Pondering some time issue of carrying bushcraft knives in transit. I know they would be in bottom of bergan etcetc but I still feel out in public yu could be at risk of prosecution. .. I've been looking at designing sheath where fire steel can lock through lanyard. .. any thoughts.... this I feel would prove no desire to have the blade for quick weaponized access

Www.wildblades.co.uk

I'm really confused as to what you're on about here but if it's a method for securing the knife in the sheath, using the firesteel as a locking toggle to retain the tool securely, then it's already been done:
[video=youtube;_BQ0-fAruzo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BQ0-fAruzo[/video]

PS: 1st 10 seconds kind of covers it really.
 
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sirysghost

Maker
Mar 14, 2016
56
0
lancs
Www.wildblades.co.uk
I wasn't aware that it had... I was looking for a secure kinda lock using the fire steel... it was just a passing thought really... but I've discovered people can quite easily get shirty bout stuff on here. ... gets me thinking their time in the bush isn't relieving much stress 😊

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Corso

Full Member
Aug 13, 2007
5,249
449
none
Thank you all for your thoughts... given me some things to consider.... I've heard some horror stories where common sense has not been deployed by law enforcement re knives

Sent from my SM-G901F using Tapatalk

really? please tell us more...
 

Idleknight

Forager
Aug 14, 2013
245
0
United Kingdom, Near Hinckley
I think its a funky design, but not sure if this thread is to discuss the design or travelling with such items.

If I am going to a bush craft event, I keep the stuff in the boot
If the police stop me, I will show some kind of booking/ticket or evidence (smart phones and emails count) of where I am going to show my reason for taking said item/s with me. Even if its not an big event like one of the shows, just make sure there is some kind of email or online confirmation and date.
 

sirysghost

Maker
Mar 14, 2016
56
0
lancs
Www.wildblades.co.uk
really? please tell us more...
Local tree surgeon had a terrible fight with axe in his van not working and also local carpet fitter had carpet knife in glove box... cud argue pros n cons of both but seemed a bit keen to me.... I think they get told target knife carrying and off they go

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Laurentius

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Aug 13, 2009
2,428
619
Knowhere
In my boyhood I would carry a sheath knife on my belt on country walks, and in my youth I would travel out (including on buses) with an axe and machete strapped to my pack. Neither of those things would I do now. If I have a reason to carry them I will still carry them, but inside my pack where they are not available for instant use in the event of an affray. Unless the police actually think that you are carrying those tools because you are on the way to carry out some mischief, I don't think they are going to bother. I think all of the well reported situations where people have been done, is because either half the story has not been told, eg the pensioner with a locking SAK in his glove box, who had been threatening people in the pub earlier, or because of ambigous situations where it was not absolutely clear to the PC that the individual was being honest in there explanation.

Many is the time when I have had a casual conversation with a police officer and with an SAK somewhere in my pockets, the last thing on a PC's mind is to search you unless you give them reason.
 

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