Bushcraft v.s Ultralight backpacking - Food - Cold Storage

[lamper]

Afternoon,

This one has been bothering me for some time.

Until I got back into bushcraft I used be very much in ultralight hiking. A good game my friends and I played was "how light is your bag", not the best title I know.

Trouble is I seem to have ditch my old ethics around weight. This was really highlighted to me now I am looking at a Karrimor SF 75 - At 2.7kg its heavy, or heavy by my standards. At the same time, its so hardwearing it should out last me.

There are some advantages to this type of bag...
- Ultralight bags don't like axes and saws
- PLCE gives more options

Anyway, I digress...

Basically with a bag coming in at 3kg, how do you go about storage of food for multiday trips?

I used to eat dehydrated meals, boil in a bag, etc, but whenever I see a picture on here, its seem to be a short walk from the car. I'm not haivng a go, I love the idea of dutch ovens etc, but I was hoping more bushcraft would lead me to less kit.

So I guess my question is...
"For a hiker / wanna be bushcrafter how do you deal with food storage for journeys over 2days +"

Cheers Mike

 

[eskimo]

I buy Travel Lunch meals, I have used these all over the world and they are great. Most of them just need boiling water and you can eat them straight from the bag. Also weigh very little.

You can get them from Cotswolds Outdoors.

Alternativly for a cheaper option, I carry eggs by cracking them into a Nalgene bottle, great for scrambled or Nettle Omlettes.
Make your own beef jerkey (Theres a tutorial on here somewhere) or my favourite is to just carry a stick of Chorizo, Pitta breat and some salad in an airtight tub. When you find a great place to set up camp, get the fire lit, shave the bark of a stick, slice the tomatoes and chorizo and you have great skewers. Lightly toast the pitta at the side of the fire and your away.

Sad as it may seems, my favorite part of a day's hiking is setting up a tarp, getting a fire lit and munching away.

You can also get some 125ml and 250ml mini nalgene bottles which are great for keeping oil, pesto, herbs in etc. And most supermarkets stock airtight 'Click' boxes which are very durable and keep stuff fresh. Look at foods which don't spoil too easy, a bag of rice or pasta will go a long way and you can add oils or spices to make it tasty.
If your into hunting, rabbit or wood pigeon tastes great and is easily available.

 

[sandbender]

Hi

My Crux AK47 pack comes in at a little over 1kg it is pretty tough and will happily carry and axe and bow saw.

For carrying additional water and food I use a couple of Ortlieb bags strapped to each side, as these attach together under the lid it makes for a stable set up, this may work with your choice of Karrimor pack.

More info in this thread.

I have kept meat and such cold by storing it in my billy can and then wrapping the billy with wet cloth (shirt or similar), as the moisture evaporates it keeps the billy cool.
Another tip would be to fill one of the very small Sigg bottles with olive oil, this makes a good substitute for butter for your bread or bannock it is easier to carry and doesn't go off as readily.

 

[jimford]

So I guess my question is...
"For a hiker / wanna be bushcrafter how do you deal with food storage for journeys over 2days +"

I've puzzled over this for some time, but reached the conclusion that many bushcrafters carrying lots of heavy hardware and cooking elaborate meals, don't travel very far from thier car. Not that there's necessarily anything wrong with that though.

Jim

 

[mace242]

I use a combination of rat packs, dried food that I make myself and look what we found meals added to with foraged stuff. I've also frozen stuff in old take away tubs and kept them in a small cool bag with ice block. It's a bit heavy but allows for really nice food. I learned a while ago that it's easy to take too much though.

 

[jimford]

I've also frozen stuff in old take away tubs and kept them in a small cool bag with ice block. It's a bit heavy but allows for really nice food.

You can only be talking about a few hours here. The O.P. was talking 2+ or multiday trips!

Jim

 

[Tadpole]

Afternoon,

This one has been bothering me for some time.

Until I got back into bushcraft I used be very much in ultralight hiking. A good game my friends and I played was "how light is your bag", not the best title I know.

Trouble is I seem to have ditch my old ethics around weight. This was really highlighted to me now I am looking at a Karrimor SF 75 - At 2.7kg its heavy, or heavy by my standards. At the same time, its so hardwearing it should out last me.

There are some advantages to this type of bag...
- Ultralight bags don't like axes and saws
- PLCE gives more options

Anyway, I digress...

Basically with a bag coming in at 3kg, how do you go about storage of food for multiday trips?

I used to eat dehydrated meals, boil in a bag, etc, but whenever I see a picture on here, its seem to be a short walk from the car. I'm not haivng a go, I love the idea of dutch ovens etc, but I was hoping more bushcraft would lead me to less kit.

So I guess my question is...
"For a hiker / wanna be bushcrafter how do you deal with food storage for journeys over 2days +"

Cheers Mike

In the bad old days of carrying my home on my back for a week or so at a time, I lived on crackers, cheese in a tube and chocolate, oh and pork pies . (there was a guy who walked round Britain eating nothing but that and it did him no harm) Gets boring, and binds you up something bad, but it's light and easy to carry. Another option was vesta meals. Worked right, and 6lb of food would last a week.

 

[jimford]

Another option was vesta meals. Worked right, and 6lb of food would last a week.

I find a lot of these dried meals, including 'Beanfeast' _very_ salty. When I used to use them I had to have a bottle of water by my sleeping bag, as I'd wake up with a raging thirst during the night! I gave them up because of this.

Jim

 

[SimonM]

I don't get out for more than a few days at a time these days, but when I did I used to use a combination of dehydrated & boil in the bag type rations supplimented with whatever I could buy locally.

Simon

 

[Matt.S]

Effective at-home refrigeration is largely a 20th-century phenomenon. Out of necessity our ancestors developed a lot of ways to store and preserve food in order to mitigate seasonality issues and keep themselves alive, especially after the large-scale abandonment of foraging. Taking such ancient experience, combining it with modern resources and technology and selecting the best of both as appropriate we can streamline our kit and enjoy the outdoors without an over-reliance on equipment but without sacrificing our comfort excessively. This, to me, is 'bushcraft'.

This long-winded paragraph goes some way to explaining the sorts of foodstuffs I might (and do) choose when I go 'out'. They are typically lightweight, cheap and relatively simple to cook. They are also able to be supplemented and complemented with foraged goods or vice-versa of course. And no, I don't take them all at once, not all bushcrafters are the same girth!

Meat:
- Dried/jerkied
- Salted and/or dry-cured (e.g. proper bacon, salami sausage etc.)
- Frozen and kept out of the sun (slowly thaws over time) - but I wouldn't suggest poultry!

Fruit and veg:
- Dried

Fibre/carbs:
- Oats (rolled or ground)
- Wheat flour (wholemeal is best!)
- Rice, pasta etc.
- Parched corn (can be ground to make flour)

Snacks, drinks etc.:
- Packet soups
- Cocoa powder
- Milk powder
- Stock cubes
- Tea
- Coffee
- Chocolate
- Boiled sweets
- Oatcakes

Extras:
- Pepper
- Sugar/honey
- Oil

 

[Wayland]

Properly cured sausages and meats can be carried without cooling for a couple of days without too much trouble. Salted fish can be found in some supermarkets too.

I also found some lamb shanks in packaging that can be boiled which were fairly good, can't find the link at the mo but someone with better googlefu might be able to help there.

Cheeses wrapped in wax are pretty useful too. Eggs are OK for a few days providing it's not too hot. UHT milk is fine too.

If you get fresh game that hasn't been hung you've got some leeway I guess, but I haven't tried that myself.

I have to admit that when I'm out in the wilds for a few nights I tend to carry dried foods because they're lighter and I'm usually lugging camera gear as well.

I'm always on the lookout for food that keeps though for use on "authentic" camps.

 

[sargey]

i guess it's a question of what food?

i do like fried egg sandwiches. the eggs go in a plastic holder. the anchor spreadable goes in a refillable tube. in cold weather you have to keep the tube under your jacket to keep it soft enough to squeeze. given long enough in hot weather the butter and the oil in the spreadable stuff will separate into their separate components. you can keep it protected from the heat of the day rolled up in your sleeping bag, only getting it out in the cool of the evening. obviously heavy food like eggs are best eaten sooner rather than later.

as for other stuff. use traditional explorer food, i was first introduced to dehydrated potato flakes by the team at woodsmoke. obviously it lasts for ages. you can use it as part of a bannock recipe, use it to thicken up your cup-a-soup based stews, or you can even make mashed potato with it. make mashed potato and nettle based bubble and squeak. and potato croquettes.

noodles are another stand-by, as is rice.

the problem with some dehydrated food is the incredibly long simmer times and the amount of fuel needed to cook it. both noodles and dehydrated potato flakes can be prepared with just hot water and no need to keep it simmering like you do with the olde vesta meals and plain rice. not a problem if you're cooking over a wood fire.

cheers, and.

 

[nigelp]

Hi

I second the choice of the Crux a real pack horse when required but very robust and light for a 'proper' rucksack. I made up a sub 6KG kitlist for lightweight bush craft which included and axe knife and TWO pots for added luxury!!

For lightweight food I would go for Reiters, Oats so simple porridge, Geo bars, Naked bars. If you really need to cook a meal then quick cook pasta along with a selection of sausage and other goodies to spice it up. Depends if you are actually walking then I would sacrifice some food choice to keep the weight down.

Nigel

 

[British Red]

As for food , as said before, just learn the old techniques. Carrying the makings of, say, a good chilli is limited by your imagination

Beef dry cooked into "hamburger rocks". These will last six months plus in an airtight container

Onions - dried in a dehydrator. Similar mushrooms and tomatoes and chilli.

Kidney and haricot beans can be carried dry as can rice.

Carry cornmeal ground.

Oil in an old shampoo bottle. Herbs dried and in film canisters. Salt and pepper in sachets. Tomato puree in a small can or toothpaste tube.

Soak your dry chilli ingredients (beans, hamburger rocks, onions, tomatoes, mushrooms and chillis). Drain off excess water (leaving a little) and bring to a simmer. Add water, seasoning and tomato puree towrds the end (I like dried garlic powder too )

Make little balls of dampened cornmeal (made up to a putty consistency) and roll thin with a peeled branch.

Dry fry into tortillas using your billy can lid.

Cook up some rice at the last moment for chilli, rice and tortillas. Crumble some cheese over the top. Tastes good to me. All the ingredients are dry and light.

Another favourite for me is bannock mix. I've used it to make pancakes (again fried on my steel plate or billy lid), bread, cake (with loose brown sugar I carry). Add a few blackberries etc. for a nice dessert, some ramsoms for garlic bread etc.

Potatoes are great baked, made into a hotpot using the chilli ingredients, mashed, made into potato bread etc.

Add in some maple syrup and rolled oats and you can bake flapjacks, make american pancakes etc, make an apple or cherry cake....

Its all dry or can be carried in a few small squeezy bottles.


Red

 

[bri66]

For 2 days I cook at home,eg spagetti bolognese and a curry and rice,eat the curry day 1 and the spagetti will be ok next day,I prefer a heavier,decent meal to dried food,Brian

 

[nige7whit]

I think there are different degrees of of Bushcraft.......

Of course, some situations lend themselves to heavier kit, not far from transport, when you get the cast iron pots on the fire, and sometimes it's fun to head out with just a tin (or titanium) mug, a firesteel, and an idea for a nice walk..

I'm taking something of an observer's view of both camps, at the moment... I enjoy hillwalking, and camping, but I carry quite a heavy pack, when camping. I like the concept of Bushcraft, and try to adopt some of the practices that have become accepted on here.

I doubt whether I'll ever be one of the 'every gram counts' purists, but I do like minimising kit, when it will allow me to carry more of something more important, like water or food.

 

[British Red]

Never forget that if you read any of the books of the original"Bushcrafters" like Kephart and Nessmuk etc. they refer to camping with gear carried on pack horses, wagons and many other conveyances. Is it not Bushcraft if you carry bulkier gear but are in a canoe? Mears himself is shown getting his "swag" out of a Landcruiser etc.

I have never seen any of the cognscenti say that Bushcrafting is the same as backpacking. It isn't. Sure simetimes its "minimal gear" but at others its "fixed camp and explore" or "Landrover safari" or "Canoe and camp" or whatever.

I love outdoor cooking and whilst we already do everything from lemon chicken (from scratch) to fresh blackberry pancakes with home made maple syrup, I want to extend my range. As a result I have just taken delivery of a custom made super large camp grill, I already have a hand forged tripod, original fire crane etc,. Sure I may carry it in my off road vehicle rather than an original gypsy caravan but will I enjoy learning to bake better cakes, roast better venison, and even make tea in my cast iron kettle? You bet I will.

And whatever you call it, its better than being indoors

 

[Sniper]

I get irritated when someone comes away with this strange notion that bushcraft means lightweight, well maybe irritated is a bit strong, but bushcraft is about being in the wilds not necessarily getting there on foot. Nowadays it can be done by vehicle and in the past by horse, and of course by canoe. How you travel, where, and what kit you take is irrelavent it's about your knowledge of using what is available in nature around you that is important. I tend to take a lot of kit with me cos I like my comforts, thereagain I can't walk far these days so can afford to take more than someone walking with their whole camp on their back. Niether way is superior and both have distinct advantages, if walking you should look at military rat pacs, everything you will need for a couple of days and does not weigh much and takes up little space. If car camping then you can afford the luxury of better food, better choice, and lot's of tasty extras. Water is by far the bulkiest and heaviest component, not a problem in the car but if your walking then a good robust filter and purification system is required.

 

[lamper]

I've puzzled over this for some time, but reached the conclusion that many bushcrafters carrying lots of heavy hardware and cooking elaborate meals, don't travel very far from thier car. Not that there's necessarily anything wrong with that though.

Jim

Completely agree, and although there is nothing wrong with this, I was looking to decrease my loads when doing 2+ days (probably more emphysis on the plus).

I still like the hardware and for pleasure camping, GREAT. I'm thinking more like TGO Challenge and Appalachian Trail etc.

i guess it's a question of what food?

as for other stuff. use traditional explorer food, i was first introduced to dehydrated potato flakes by the team at woodsmoke. obviously it lasts for ages. you can use it as part of a bannock recipe, use it to thicken up your cup-a-soup based stews, or you can even make mashed potato with it. make mashed potato and nettle based bubble and squeak. and potato croquettes.

noodles are another stand-by, as is rice.

the problem with some dehydrated food is the incredibly long simmer times and the amount of fuel needed to cook it. both noodles and dehydrated potato flakes can be prepared with just hot water and no need to keep it simmering like you do with the olde vesta meals and plain rice. not a problem if you're cooking over a wood fire.

cheers, and.

Great advice, thanks mate. Love the idea of the flakes, but never heard of them, you know a good source, or are we talking Smash™ here?

As for food , as said before, just learn the old techniques. Carrying the makings of, say, a good chilli is limited by your imagination

Beef dry cooked into "hamburger rocks". These will last six months plus in an airtight container

Onions - dried in a dehydrator. Similar mushrooms and tomatoes and chilli.
.
.
.
.
.

Potatoes are great baked, made into a hotpot using the chilli ingredients, mashed, made into potato bread etc.

Add in some maple syrup and rolled oats and you can bake flapjacks, make american pancakes etc, make an apple or cherry cake....

Its all dry or can be carried in a few small squeezy bottles.


Red

Red, thank you as well. Are the cheaper dehydrators any good? Saw some for £50-70?

I get irritated when someone comes away with this strange notion that bushcraft means lightweight, well maybe irritated is a bit strong, but bushcraft is about being in the wilds not necessarily getting there on foot. Nowadays it can be done by vehicle and in the past by horse, and of course by canoe. How you travel, where, and what kit you take is irrelavent it's about your knowledge of using what is available in nature around you that is important. I tend to take a lot of kit with me cos I like my comforts, thereagain I can't walk far these days so can afford to take more than someone walking with their whole camp on their back. Niether way is superior and both have distinct advantages, if walking you should look at military rat pacs, everything you will need for a couple of days and does not weigh much and takes up little space. If car camping then you can afford the luxury of better food, better choice, and lot's of tasty extras. Water is by far the bulkiest and heaviest component, not a problem in the car but if your walking then a good robust filter and purification system is required.

Sniper, I think you have misunderstood, and having read a previous thread I thought when I wrote this there would be one of these.

I'm new at bushcraft and BCUK, so I don't want to offend. I'm just looking for a way to either remove some of my gear via bushcraft and maybe learn some tricks to extend my time out. I'm pretty lazy to so I don't want to be carrying extra stuff and so was looking for thoughts.

Still love the back to nature though!

Again sorry if I gave you the wrong idea.

Mike

 

[British Red]

You don't need to spend that much. There are some very acceptable ones around under £30 that will do the job well. Dried onions, peppers, tomatoes etc. can be had in any supermarket of course. Hamburger rocks are made in the oven anyway. Its quite possible to make all the dried ingredients in a domestic kitchen with no fancy stuff at all.

Red