Bushcraft PLCE webbing

[iano]

Oh dear, not again...many have made the assumption that bushcrafters want to carry military gear in the pouches, we don't, we just use the pouches as...welll...pouches.
some military gear works really well and has suitable pouches (crusader gear for example) and ponchos/tarps.

it's just another way of carrying things, end of.

The guy asked for a webbing packing list, I told him what I keep in mine.

I would be lying if I said I filled it with haribo, brew kit, a hammock and paracord.

Reality is that a lot of webbing is made up to be specific to mil kit - ammo pouches that hold 3x A2 mags or 2x L109 or 1x smoke gren or 50+ rounds of 7.62 4B1T for example, its also not a coincidence that the waterbottle pouch will also fit a 354, the lightweight stretcher + a few FFDs, or a goodly amount of extra ammo; or that the issue team medics kit comes in a similar size pouch. That's before you get on to the specialised stuff like bayonet frog, PRR cover, RGGS carrier, wire cutters case.

Now I don't see why webbing is particularly relevant to spending time in the outdoors if Queen Liz isn't paying you to be there, I have a 58 bottle/Crusader mug too which I use when hiking or out and about in civvy mode and it lives in an orange daysack of mine, alternatively I'm pretty sure I could source a non-militant single pouch for the belt of said daysack if I wanted it to hand. If you want to use mil kit for civ stuff, I'm not going to stop you or have a go at you on the internet, even if I personally would not use it. But Rappleby you do seem incredibly keen to defend yourself as not some sort of military/survivalist wannabe, when I was only describing the function of webbing and its contents (battle kit and 24hr keep-you-going type stuff) to a third party who asked.

By the way, anyone intending to use webbing with a daysack or rucksack that isn't mil pattern may run into a spot of bother. I've always found that most civvy rucksacks lie on your hips, hence the hip belt. Can't do that with webbing, it's in the way, a rucksack not designed to be used with webbing (i.e. not the issue NI pack or shortback bergen or similar mil type aftermarket kit which is cut for use with beltkit) won't sit properly or distribute weight properly, so it's pushed up to the back of your head and all the weights on your shoulders not on your hips. So I guess you are basically looking at trogging round in all PLCE - beltkit, NI pack and bergen.

 

[nickg]

I started my military life using 37 patt kit, definately bullet proof but total sh**e comfort wise. When we got 58 pattern stuff we thought it was the dogs dodoos the yoke especially was good - the pack wasnt. I never soldiered with the plce issue but i use it a lot, belt kit and bergan and i think it really good kit. Very comfy and well made (by comparison with what went before) and i doubt that anybody would willingly swop back to 58 kit (in their right mind anyway).
So it seems that we are back to the DPM thing again and thats just boring.
One unit i was with for a while had a reputation of using what worked and changing what didnt, the principle bieng how it performed not how it looked. We would find bits of 58 pat US Alice anything. Several of us were unhappy with the issue ammo pouches so someones missis put some belt tabs etc on spare kidney pouches to give a bigger dump puuch rather than stuff mags in our smocks, most of us had at least one bit of Alice somewhere and there were often 44 pat water bottles and extra Mk6 respirator bags.
The point I'm driving at is that is that webbing is such a personal piece of kit that it seems to me that the ONLY criteria is whether it works for you or not. Colour, origin, original intent etc is irrelevant really.

Cheers
Nick

 

[RAPPLEBY2000]

The guy asked for a webbing packing list, I told him what I keep in mine.

sorry I admit I didn't read the last bit of the thread properly.

Now I don't see why webbing is particularly relevant to spending time in the outdoors if Queen Liz isn't paying you to be there,

Because personally speaking I find it comfortable and useful.

But Rappleby you do seem incredibly keen to defend yourself as not some sort of military/survivalist wannabe, when I was only describing the function of webbing and its contents (battle kit and 24hr keep-you-going type stuff) to a third party who asked.

as i mentioned before, I misread your post. sorry again.
all I'm wanting is that Webbing is considered as a useful piece of kit. and it can be comfortable, nothing more I'm glad I discovered it! 20+ years ago!

 

[nickg]

all I'm wanting is that Webbing is considered as a useful piece of kit. and it can be comfortable, nothing more I'm glad I discovered it! 20+ years ago!

Hear Hear

Cheers
Nick

 

[johnboy]

I started my military life using 37 patt kit,

Far out! What unit was issuing 37 patt web gear...

 

[woodspirits]

I've been toying with the idea of a less military setup by working a number of leather pouches onto a 'Sam Brown' style belt. My concern is I may end up looking like Batman instead...

classic, tarp as a cape?

 

[nickg]

Far out! What unit was issuing 37 patt web gear...

Royal Engineers in 1970 in training and my first Sqn in Germany

Legend has it that it was designed by a Lesbian who hated men and chose that way to have her revenge. Total nonsense of course but it goes to show the disquiet that using it for a while engendered. 58 patt was manna from heaven when it arrived.
I still have contact with 23 Engr Regt (Air Assault) and the lads there all try to get hold of 58 Patt belts to wear over their smocks rather than the naff plastic one they are given

Cheers
Nick

 

[RAPPLEBY2000]

Hi I'm a Happy bunny!
through the swaps and friends I've managed to collect a complete set of 58" webbing, some of it unused!

I've had loads of fun fixing it all back together! Pics soon I hope.

found out some Ideas from a friend as well about how he Modded his 58 Gear when he was on active service, I'll expand later!

and I'm also modding a poncho roll, again pics later.

 

[RAPPLEBY2000]

He Hee! I found another genuine SAS SLR ammo pouch today, at my local surplus store !for £8!

2 different SAS drop ammo pouches?
1 for 4 Armalite mags (30 x 5.56)
1 for 4 SLR mags (20 x 7.62)
someone up there likes me!
Heres the rear (if you like that sort of thing).

 

[aus bushcrafter]

nice buy for £8 mate

 

[Rabbitsmacker]

when u say local, do you mean hoopers in norwich? if so i'm greener than that webbing cos i went in there and was allowed to go through all the sacks of webbing and didn't see those! they then told me they had binned (literally!) the 58 stuff!

i have a set of similar to your picture, loads of 44 canteen covers, e+e pouch, altimeter pouch and later issue MOD copies of the slr pouches. got an unissued set of armalite pouches. plus i had a roll pin belt custom made to fit out of a genine loady strap.
love the set but its doing nowt at the moment. i saw your utube where u ducked it in the river, just wondered how often you use the 58 set? even though i have one i think i prefer the plce stuff with US canteen covers for lightness and quick drying.

cheers
Rob

 

[apj1974]

I think the only things worth keeping off 58 patt are the belt and the poncho roll.

although it is a laugh to put a set together with the rucksack clipped on and the sleeping bag on top, i rather liked that system, only one yoke.

 

[Radix lecti]

I agree with you there apj1974, the only bit of 58 kit worth its salt was the poncho roll of which i still have two , although the unit i was in we were never issued the large pack ,only a bergen,so i never had the experience of hooking all that kit onto the webbing yoke.
Darren

 

[mousey]

Hi Hi,

I've read some of this thread - hilarious arguments, but well done for sorting it out peacefully...

anyway, nearly been swayed to getting a set of 58 pattern webbing for general use on short walks (maybe longer if i get chance) but mainly dog walks - so mininal stuff, binoculars (for spotting dolphins) sun glasses, waterproofs, bottle water, maybe an apple etc. found a site to get a 'complete' set -yoke, large pack, left & right pouch, kidney pouch, water pouch, ponco roll for 12.50. BUT no belt (6.50) still seems reasonable to me.

Now a question - how exactly do the pouches attach to the belt? how compatible would a 95 plce belt or other similar be with the pouches? i was thinking of getting the set and a different belt with abit more padding on it.

 

[widu13]

Arktis do a belt which is already padded. You can buy "hippo pads" which attach inside the belt for more comfort and to stop pouches rubbing. It works- I had one from 88-94! The system will also work with the PLCE belt.

The pouches are meant for the metal clips to fit inside the canvas "pockets" on the belt, to keep them secure. That only worked at the top of the pouches and it was common place to sew the bottoms of the neighbouring pouches to stop "bounce" when running. It was also very "Gucci" or "uber ally"! That being side, I had mates that swore that the kit was more comfortable to use just clipping the pouches onto the belt and letting them remain free running. 58/44 webbing was an individual art and very much up to the individual on what they did to make it comfy for them.

 

[apj1974]

If I can remember right it can be used with a 95 belt just turn the belt upside down so you have got loops for the poncho roll.

 

[Nonsuch]

As far as I am concerned people can wear whatever they like as long as they don't upset other people.

NS

 

[RAPPLEBY2000]

When I was off sick i modded a poncho roll, to fit the SAS style Drop pouches.
I'll have to take a photo!


To explane how 58" pouches fit together would take forever!

best thing is to find as many photos you can and figure it out, like this:

(it's not quite right though the poncho roll isn't fitted, the large pack should be hooked on the "D" rings not the webbing strap and the kidney pouch is loose!)

this website has loads of detailed photos, shame it's in a foreign language (I think you can translate it with google)
http://www.dpm-soldier.pl/fieldcraft/58_pattern.html

you'll need a flathead screwdriver (to open the holes in the belt)
a pair of pliers to help push/pull the metal hooks into place.

best advice slip the hooks on so they can move sideways on the belt and move them till they feel right then fit the metal hooks into the tiny belt pockets.

 

[mousey]

Thanks for the photo rappleby that has helped my understanding and is one of the clearest photos i've seen. thanks for the advise from others as well.

It has inspired me to have a go at making a set of webbing myself. I have an ordinary old canvas type belt, some lengths of 2" and 1" nylon strapping and a fairly large quantity of 12oz cotton canvas hanging around - i think i can knock something up with that. I have an old swedish army pack which the straps rotted and snapped off (they were leather and not looked after at all) so i may incorporate that as a 'large' pack...

 

[Tengu]

I have a poncho Roll if anyone wants to do a swap?