Always use a liner? And other questions

[BeerHunter]

Hello,

Again, apologies if this is well-trodden ground, but...

- When fitting wooden scales to a full-tang handle, would you always use a liner? Or does it apply depending on what fixing method is used (i.e. glue only, or glue and dowel, or dowel only etc etc)?

- Also, do you guys always use glue, or are the dowels considered sufficient?

- Lastly, are the pre-drilled holes that I see in lots of blanks of a standard size? Or can one get dowel in a variety of sizes so that this isn't an issue?

Many thanks!

 

[mikew]

Liners are optional. Others will disagree but I say they are purely cosmetic.

Glue is also optional though recommended. If using corby or loveless bolts (or similar) they will be sufficient to hold the scales in place, but the addition of glue will help stop any moisture from getting between the scales and the tang and prevent movement.

Pins are available in a variety of diameters and you would drill your holes to suit the pins/bolts you want to use.

 

[Dannytsg]

Hello,

Again, apologies if this is well-trodden ground, but...

- When fitting wooden scales to a full-tang handle, would you always use a liner? Or does it apply depending on what fixing method is used (i.e. glue only, or glue and dowel, or dowel only etc etc)? - Liners are your choice to use. Some will advocate the use of them I personally dont use them.

- Also, do you guys always use glue, or are the dowels considered sufficient? - I use a good quality 2 part mixing epoxy. Rough the tang prior to fixing and you will get a good fix once applied and clamped with the pins

- Lastly, are the pre-drilled holes that I see in lots of blanks of a standard size? Or can one get dowel in a variety of sizes so that this isn't an issue? - usually 3mm or 5mm in diameter and a standard but this can vary from oversea's suppliers

Many thanks!

Answered as above. Hope it helps

 

[Angst]

yo....liners serve three purposes....one is cosmetic....makes it look pretty....second is to protect the steel from the wood....third is to allow a good bond between all layers with glue.

some woods like oak can cause probs with steel. however if the woods safe then technically you dont need a liner....i would always advise using glue....i use z-poxy which has a 20 minute working time....i suppose you dont have to use glue if youre using loveless or corby bolts as they are screwed tight thus fixing everything together but yes if youre just using dowel/pin then use glue.

most holes seem to accomodate approx 1/4" or 6mm holes....with 5/16" or 8mm hole for lanyard tube...make sure you email the seller to find out because the holes-thing is very important....if its a handmade blade for instance from someone on bcuk like hillbill or perrari then they'll drill whatever size holes you want....

i've probably missed a few things i should mention but hillbill will probably add to this....hope it helps....regards

a

 

[Angst]

just gotta say this after seeing mikew's post....

you will have a hell of a time drilling holes yourself in hardened steel....especially if its stainless....01 carbons not too bad with a pillar drill but stainless can be nasty....any probs post on here and someone will advise...

a

 

[HillBill]

As Angst says, liners are useful things. As well as looking nice and adding contrast, they protect the steel from the wood. Oak contains tannin for example, which will corrode steel if left in contact with it.

Glue AND pins all the way. Not one or the other. Use a quality 2 part epoxy such as araldite precision.

Can't help on the last question, as i've never bought a factory made blade. Though i do know some manufacturers use metric, some imperial.

 

[HillBill]

You just need the right drill bit. Cobalt and carbide drill bits will glide through hardened steel, so long as you take it slowly, run the drill on low speed and keep the steel cool with water or cutting fluid.

just gotta say this after seeing mikew's post....

you will have a hell of a time drilling holes yourself in hardened steel....especially if its stainless....01 carbons not too bad with a pillar drill but stainless can be nasty....any probs post on here and someone will advise...

a

 

[JAG009]

You just need the right drill bit. Cobalt and carbide drill bits will glide through hardened steel, so long as you take it slowly, run the drill on low speed and keep the steel cool with water or cutting compound.

Yip ! I will go with that, cobalt drill bits will do the job with ease


Jason

 

[BeerHunter]

Thanks all!

 

[santaman2000]

You just need the right drill bit. Cobalt and carbide drill bits will glide through hardened steel, so long as you take it slowly, run the drill on low speed and keep the steel cool with water or cutting fluid.

+1 on the cobalt bits, however even a regular high speed bit will work if you have good technique. We used beeswax on aircraft stainless. The rule for drilling hard steels is "slow speed, heavy feed." And I'd reccomend pneaumatic drill motors over electric if available. That said I've drilled stailess with a hand drill but I don't reccomend it.

 

[TurboGirl]

"slow speed, heavy feed."

Is the feed refering to the force you're using to push it through where its biting or reduction gear/ some variable for more 'torque'?

 

[HillBill]

I think he's referring to torque

 

[Angst]

interesting.....yesterday i took a sandvik 12c27 stainless to my local tool shop to get my m8 lee to drill it for me....it killed a carbide and a cobalt with oil....in the end he managed it using just a standard makita masonry bit but it took about ten minutes and it went better with no! oil....how kinky is that?

a

Yip ! I will go with that, cobalt drill bits will do the job with ease


Jason

 

[mikew]

Pins are available in a variety of diameters and you would drill your holes to suit the pins/bolts you want to use.

Sorry, for some reason I assumed you were making the blade too

Did you have a particular blade in mind? Someone here may be able to tell you the size of pin you will need.

 

[santaman2000]

Is the feed refering to the force you're using to push it through where its biting or reduction gear/ some variable for more 'torque'?

"Feed" is how hard you press the drill into the metal. Soft metals, such as aluminum, require a light feed and fast speed (drill RPM) whereas hard metals such as stainless are the opposite and require heavy feed and slow speed. Torque is important (that's why I prefer pneumatic drills) but really isn't anything to do with your technique.

 

[lostplanet]

Drilling stainless helps if its kept cool, once it starts to heat up it work hardens and is a bitch to work with. I had this recently with a bracket.

I'm glad this thread came up, I was thinking of adding lashing tubes to my enzo trapper project.

 

[santaman2000]

Drilling stainless helps if its kept cool, once it starts to heat up it work hardens and is a bitch to work with...

Exactly! That's the reason for the slow speed (less friction) and the cutting oil or beeswax (heat transfer away from the cutting point); to protect both the metal being cut, and the drill bit.

 

[JAG009]

interesting.....yesterday i took a sandvik 12c27 stainless to my local tool shop to get my m8 lee to drill it for me....it killed a carbide and a cobalt with oil....in the end he managed it using just a standard makita masonry bit but it took about ten minutes and it went better with no! oil....how kinky is that?

a

Now thats the first i have heard of that happening ,i have been using cobalt and carbide drills for quite some time now and i have never had one fail on me yet ,,,,was the person using the drills using the bits on high speed ?


Jason

 

[Stew]

Liners will not Give a better bond through the layers any more than just wood glued direct.

 

[mikew]

Ok, since this thread has already drifted a little....

I have a couple of full tang knives that are more than 10 years old where no liner was used, and there has been no separation or corrosion.

I do sometimes used fiber liners but how confident are we that they actualy do anything functional?