A few thoughts on dehydrated food

[rik_uk3]

A few thoughts on dehydrated food

The last few weeks I’ve been trying out a food dehydrator, and the results to date have been better than I expected

Using frozen vegetables

Frozen peas, sliced green beans, and corn have all worked very well. Remember, frozen vegetables like these are blanched then fast frozen; it saves you the job of blanching at home. Also, frozen vegetables often retain vitamin content better than fresh veg that's been on a supermarket shelf for a few days and this helps compensate for vitamin loss in the drying process.

Fresh vegetables

I’ve had great success with carrots, they shrink to nothing, but really “grow” when soaked in water. Celery and leeks work well, but needs thin slices as does red cabbage. With these, I blanch for a couple of minutes to kill bacteria etc, and dry.

Mushrooms, get the freshest you can and slice non to thinly, they dry well and give an intense flavour to the water they re-hydrate in, a very good base for soups and stews (as does celery)

Although I have dried minced (ground) beef well, I’m still yet to try beef slices as in jerky. With the minced beef, I fry in a dry pan until cooked, then rinse under boiling water to remove the fat before drying. This mince is a good base for a stew or spag bol etc. I will try the same with home minced lean lamb, probably leg of lamb, as this is lower in fat than other cuts.

Drying times and cooking times

To date, drying times and the weights of food have been unrecorded, starting next week, I’ll keep better notes.

As with commercially sold dried vegetables, its better to soak the veg in cold water for a few hours before cooking. When fully soaked, cooking times for veg is on a par with fresh.

I’ll get round to trying out fruit leathers when I’ve become comfortable with the veg and meat.

 

[British Red]

Useful info Rik, thank you,

I'm toying with going down the dehydrator route myself so any expreiences (good or bad) are helpful

Red

 

[spamel]

I dried a whole bunch of onions, but be warned, put your dehydrator outside or the whole house starts to get a french feel about it!! I put them outside the flat on the landing and it took four days for the smell to go, or at least for everyone to get used to it! Once they are in water, they go back to exactly what they look like when they are freshly chopped, wierd!!

 

[Ketchup]

Hold your Horse, Rik UK

Drying Herbs, apples and veggies: OK, drying mushrooms, So be it.

But meat?

When you dry meat, you open the fats to oxidation (and thus to rancidity). You do not control bad bacteria, yeasts nor moulds. Meat is traditionally cured, not dried, wich means the salami, prosciuto di parma, pancetta, lonzo, etc. is grown with friendly bacteria, that transform the fat over ample time and change the acid content (lower the pH), which is more important than the loss of water in order to avoid food poisoning.
Think about tradition: the foods that were traditionally dried can be dried today. Fatty protein foods were smoked (fenoles and salt inhibiting rancidity), but never dried. The alternative was wet brined (herring, pork). Only extremely lean cuts were salt-dried (e.g. corned beef)

 

[dommyracer]

I suspect he's talking about jerky type meats, Ketchup.

I was reading this recently - the USDA recommends that if you are going to dry jerky using a dehydrator then you should first heat it to 160 degrees F...

http://www.fsis.usda.gov/Fact_Sheets/jerky_and_food_safety/index.asp

 

[Moonraker]

Hold your Horse, Rik UK

Drying Herbs, apples and veggies: OK, drying mushrooms, So be it.

But meat?

When you dry meat, you open the fats to oxidation (and thus to rancidity). You do not control bad bacteria, yeasts nor moulds. Meat is traditionally cured, not dried, wich means the salami, prosciuto di parma, pancetta, lonzo, etc. is grown with friendly bacteria, that transform the fat over ample time and change the acid content (lower the pH), which is more important than the loss of water in order to avoid food poisoning.
Think about tradition: the foods that were traditionally dried can be dried today. Fatty protein foods were smoked (fenoles and salt inhibiting rancidity), but never dried. The alternative was wet brined (herring, pork). Only extremely lean cuts were salt-dried (e.g. corned beef)

You are correct regarding fatter meat joints such as a ham etc Ketchup but plenty of people make beef jerky by dehyrating it. This is generally done with all the fat cut off and using only lean meat cuts in that way you avoid the issues of rancid fat.

Drying (and or smoking over an open fire) is the world's oldest and most common method of food preservation. Before the development of the use of salt for preserving.

Most jerky is prepared with a salty marinade which adds preservation (though, only the use of salt petre etc will effectively kill potential botulinum etc) as well as flavour. This, combined with thorough drying (i.e. to brittle state) will enable properly stored jerky to last for a long time as the lack of moisture inhibits bacterial growth. Mostly however it gets eaten within a short time

The principle dangers of botulinum as I understand it are in anaerobic conditions (i.e. no or little oxygen present) such as wet cures and smoking where the use of salt petre is recommended (as it was used historically, though it must be used very carefully)

Making jerky this way does require the freshest meat and generally pork is not used.

To improve the destruction of any unwanted bacteria ( Salmonella and E. coli for instance) in the USA they recommend maintaining a drying temperature of Dry meats in a dehydrator or oven that will maintain a temperature of at least 62.5 degrees C (145 degrees F) although the USDA quote an even higher temperature of 165 F/ 74 C. Personally I think this is too high and effects the flavour etc but it's a personal decision, considering the potential dangers.

There is info available here from the USDA;

USDA - Food Safety of Jerky

And a useful web site for drying generally which sets out clearly the various considerations when drying food;
University of Illinois - Drying Food

and finally decent instructions for making Biltong;

How To Make Real South African Biltong

It is traditionally air dried but also possible in a dehydrator. The inclusion of the vinegar also helps with the acidity levels.

If you really want to get a good understanding of the use of cures and saltpetre then I suggest a visit to the sausage making forum where many detailed threads offer advice and opinion on the subject. Check it out here;

Sausagemaking.org Forum - Techniques

 

[Ketchup]

I agree mostly, but Rik was talking about mince, which is usually made of the fatter cuts of meat (fat=taste). Dried sausage is a traditional (droewors e.g.), but it is dried sloooooowly. Dehydrators can work too fast and you get 'case hardening' which is fine in tempering steel, but nt in drying meat.

When drying too fast, you get a very dry outer crust (including all internal salts), while the inside of the meat remains moist and open to (anaerobic ) bacterial growth, especially if you try to keep it 'low salt' and if you have marinated it with herbs.

To be on the safe side against botulism (the most dangerous in this case) salt content should be over 3% (against the meat weight after drying). That's pretty salty! E.coli and salmonella are ususlly not a problem if you work with clean hands (and if you don't use fowl)

Saltpeter (Nitrate) is mostly used to enhance colour, it ads to lowering the water activity, but so does sugar.

 

[Moonraker]

I agree mostly, but Rik was talking about mince, which is usually made of the fatter cuts of meat (fat=taste). Dried sausage is a traditional (droewors e.g.), but it is dried sloooooowly. Dehydrators can work too fast and you get 'case hardening' which is fine in tempering steel, but nt in drying meat. When drying too fast, you get a very dry outer crust (including all internal salts), while the inside of the meat remains moist and open to (anaerobic ) bacterial growth, especially if you try to keep it 'low salt' and if you have marinated it with herbs.

He was talking about both For mince then it would not be an issue with ground lean beef (i.e. no fat added) which is often used in the USA for making jerky (using a tool to shape the jerky). Like you say, dried sausages need different treatment but you have to weigh up the preference for a chewy/ pliant jerky which contains some residual water content which may not last as long but is easier to eat (where long keeping is not an issue or is frozen until required). And a jerky dried to a brittle stage with minimal water content for longer keeping (with a higher salt content too usually) And you also need to consider the preference for texture over the recommendation of the USDA for instance where they recommend 165 F/ 74 C. I guess we can all make our choice on that. Drying sausage needs slower, controlled conditions with a controlled humidity etc.

The other issue with mince is that is a lot more prone to bacterial ingress. Usually with meat in joints the contact of potential bacteria is on the surface. So, cooking a steak for instance, kills this bacteria with high temperature whilst allowing a bloody centre. But when you mince meat you mix all the surface with the rest and there is also a lot more surface area for the bacteria to grow. So using mince is more problematic. I am not really sure how best to ensure safe treatment of dried mince with fat in it.

To be on the safe side against botulism (the most dangerous in this case) salt content should be over 3% (against the meat weight after drying). That's pretty salty! E.coli and salmonella are ususlly not a problem if you work with clean hands (and if you don't use fowl)

Saltpeter (Nitrate) is mostly used to enhance colour, it ads to lowering the water activity, but so does sugar.

It has a much more important role than simply preserving a decent colour in meat;

Nitrite in meat greatly delays development of botulinal toxin (botulism), develops cured meat flavor and color, retards development of rancidity and off-odors and off-flavors during storage, inhibits development of warmed-over flavor, and preserves flavors of spices, smoke, etc.

Adding nitrite to meat is only part of the curing process. Ordinary table salt (sodium chloride) is added because of its effect on flavor. Sugar is added to reduce the harshness of salt.

source: University of Minnesota - Nitrite in Meat

This link has some good info.

 

[Jerky Meister]

If your doing mince the best way is to get lean steak n mince it yourself before drying, having just made 300 droewurst the comment about outer crust forming making it harder for it to dry through is true but you just leave em in longer, to test they are ready try breaking one in half, it should be like a dry twig , its the same with Biltong, i have big dehydrators with different heat settings and droewurst still takes a couple of days to dry, best thing is you cant dry it to much so longer you leave it the better lol, if anyone wants any meat drying ideas / recipes please feel free to ask or PM me lol

 

[Moonraker]

Thanks for the offer JM A few questions.

1) How long do you generally marinate the beef before drying? I guess the longer the more flavour but guess it can also be overdone if too long?

2) Do you use saltpetre at all given the potential dangers of botulinum? and if not what sort of shelf life do you reckon properly dried jerky has? I realise it's not an exact science (thank goodness) but some idea.

3) I would like to get some smokey flavour to my jerky and aim to cold smoke some for a few hours for flavour then finish off in the dehydrator. Or can I hot smoke quickly then dry? I prefer not to use liquid smoke.

I just made up a batch last night and tried using some decent Spanish smoked sweet paprika which does give a nice smokey undertone and the smell coming from the dehydrator smelt just like the empty St Bruno tobacco tins I used to use for survival packs Very nice. Not tasted it yet.

No exact measures but the mixture was something like;

1kg trimmed lean rump steak thinly sliced and quickly tenderised
4 tablespoons Dark soy sauce
2 teaspoons 'La Chinata' Smoked Paprika (sweet)
dash of organic cider vinegar
dash of maple syrup
1 teaspoon organic muscovado dark sugar
freshly ground black pepper

4) I fancied using the maple syrup for flavour and to balance the salt but not sure how this may effect the keeping quality of the jerky?

 

[rik_uk3]

With the mince (ground beef in the states) I use extra lean, and by frying in a dry pan, you loose most of the fat and kill off bugs in the meat. A rinse with boiling water and you are left with pretty much, fat free meat for drying.

By meat, I meant jerky, very important to heat the strips in an oven first before drying.

I made a stew the other night and am still amazed at how such a small amount of veg, fills a pan after soaking

If you dry leeks, its an idea to treat them like onions and dry by an open window, or the whole house smells

 

[Ketchup]

I fear this might become a discussion between gastronomers and the "I don't eat, I feed"-people. Why would anyone want to dry tasteless lean meat, when there is cured Italian salami (or Parma ham, for that matter) that keeps for months and tastes devine?

In my country, we have 'droge worst/saucisse sèche' that will keep for months (years?) with all the fat and flavour included. The same goes for any decent salami or Spanish chorizo.

The same with onions. Decently harvested onion will keep for months. Whrere's the need to dry them any further?
Garlic: the same?

I thought bushcraft should be simple, or at least, basic?

 

[spamel]

I thought bushcraft should be simple, or at least, basic?

I take the dried variety as I can pack them in a bag without them getting bruised, also it is a few ounces less to carry! I know it sounds like a negligible amount of weight, but if you are in to dehydrated foods, you'll find you do save a lot of weight in the long run, and it allows you to go out for longer as you can carry more food.

Each to their own though, I think bushcraft in itself should be what you are personally happy with. I don't want to start the age old discussion that we have all had a thousand times or more, but bushcraft varies in the way it is practised, some people use fire pistons, others use flint and steel. Maybe a ferro rod lights your fire, or even one of the fire by friction methods. Maybe you just use a simple bic lighter or strike any where matches. And that is just starting a fire!!!!!

Cooking may use a variety of different methods, simply an open fire or various different cooking outfits from trangia meths to pressurised fuel burners. Sleeping arrangements could be debris shelter, tent, tarp and bivvi bag or tarp and hammock. When you start to consider the different methods of bushcrafting you'll see such variety that is comparable to the different styles of martial arts. Find what works for you!

 

[Moonraker]

I fear this might become a discussion between gastronomers and the "I don't eat, I feed"-people. Why would anyone want to dry tasteless lean meat, when there is cured Italian salami (or Parma ham, for that matter) that keeps for months and tastes devine?

In my country, we have 'droge worst/saucisse sèche' that will keep for months (years?) with all the fat and flavour included. The same goes for any decent salami or Spanish chorizo.

The same with onions. Decently harvested onion will keep for months. Whrere's the need to dry them any further?
Garlic: the same?

I thought bushcraft should be simple, or at least, basic?

Gastronomically I totally agree with you Ketchup But have you tried some good home-made beef jerky because it is really great too.

All the foods you mention are lovely, indeed with my whole family in France we did 'Le tue cochon' and made things from every part of the pig include home-made saucisse sèche, Paté Forestiere from wild mushrooms I had picked with the kids, boudin noir etc. It's great food! But in Britain the tradition is really not as strong for traditional methods of food preparation, although it is growing (like rivercottage.net forums for instance) so the skill to make such foods is not around so much. And the potential for serious illness is quite a bit higher.

In the end often people take salamis etc with them outdoors but for me half the process is actually making stuff yourself at home. Because it is healthier (you know the ingredients and avoid chemicals etc), dried foods are traditional too and very suitable for carrying because they are lighter, take up less room and generally last better even in hot temperatures.

I'm not really talking about creating freeze dry type ration packs which are more for function than taste, though they have their place.

I don't see it as either/ or but very much about a number of methods including making nice saucisse etc, using different techniques too like smoking (which makes lovely garlic which lasts longer too). Moslty also I want to work on techniques which I could use in a bushcraft situation too where I don't have the ingredients and utensils of the kitchen which just adds to the challenge and fun for me

 

[Ketchup]

Spamel, moonraker, you all have your points.

Still, I think a hurriedly dehydrated onion will spoil faster than the 'normal' air dried onion. Dehydrating will increase the effort, but not give longer lasting results.

I appreciate Spamel's view, and I share it; there should be room for many types of bushcraft, from the "amphitrionic" slow food version to the downright "triathlonic" Spartan survival run. "A chacun son mauvais goût" (to each and everyone his own bad taste), as my father used to say.

Still one should never trust technology too much. You cannot safely dessicate everything.

Then, as a continental with a great love for the British way of life, I want to reassure Moonraker when he writes: "But in Britain the tradition is really not as strong for traditional methods of food preparation, although it is growing (like rivercottage.net forums for instance) so the skill to make such foods is not around so much".

I have witnessed a great traditinal food lore in England. I'm sure the traditional pig slaughter is still happening in the country side, and many traditional recipes are still in use.

Observe and learn them!

 

[spamel]

Well, I wouldn't say it was dehydrated that quickly!! It took more than a few hours, and I had split it down to rings to make it easier to dry. They are amazing when they are rehydrated though, the flavour is just as good and they even make the eyes sting a little!!

 

[Moonraker]

I have witnessed a great traditinal food lore in England. I'm sure the traditional pig slaughter is still happening in the country side, and many traditional recipes are still in use.

Observe and learn them!

There are great examples of traditional food made in Britain and increasing interest in the skills these days, BUT the traditions passed down through families etc really faded and only now are people re-learning them.

I am afraid that the traditional slaughter of a pig has been illegal in Britain for a while now and the modern move to over regulation really does inhibit some of these skills, like the use of unpasteurised milk which is still used widely in France. In many ways it is forums like this that are encouraging more people to discover the skills and remember just how good slow food is

Believe me, I do "Observe" and "try to learn them"

 

[rik_uk3]

Spamel, moonraker, you all have your points.

Still, I think a hurriedly dehydrated onion will spoil faster than the 'normal' air dried onion. Dehydrating will increase the effort, but not give longer lasting results.

I appreciate Spamel's view, and I share it; there should be room for many types of bushcraft, from the "amphitrionic" slow food version to the downright "triathlonic" Spartan survival run. "A chacun son mauvais goût" (to each and everyone his own bad taste), as my father used to say.

Still one should never trust technology too much. You cannot safely dessicate everything.

Then, as a continental with a great love for the British way of life, I want to reassure Moonraker when he writes: "But in Britain the tradition is really not as strong for traditional methods of food preparation, although it is growing (like rivercottage.net forums for instance) so the skill to make such foods is not around so much".

I have witnessed a great traditinal food lore in England. I'm sure the traditional pig slaughter is still happening in the country side, and many traditional recipes are still in use.

Observe and learn them!

Ketchup (I'm sorry I don't know your real name, mine is Richard), home dried food for me is a cheap alternative to buying commercially. Dried food is not really something I would use at home, other than standard stuff like dried herbs and spices, and then, only when I can't get fresh. The whole idea of drying food at home is to use for camping (with the exception of good mushrooms perhaps). Salami and good ham etc is still only another way of extending the life cycle of food, although I agree it tastes better than jerked meat (in general)

Food in the UK has changed dramatically in the last decade, UK supermarkets on the whole, are as good as any in Europe, we can now buy produce from all over the world all year round, and the organic sector is growing very fast (and to be honest, prices are often lower in the UK).

Thankfully, the days of the British people living on fish & chips, fried food, pies etc are fading fast; everyone here now seems to enjoy cooking. I'm 52 and grew up with a great Step Father who taught me how to enjoy good food, what to look for, and how to cook it; I was lucky to experience that 40 years ago When I came home from the Hospital on Friday, my 19 year old son was cooking Chicken with olive oil, tarragon and lemon, green salad and home made dressing, served with pasta and grated Italian cheese, not a packet in sight; who would have thought of a young Brit doing that 15 years ago

So, home dried food for camping, and really good food for the home

 

[Ketchup]

So, home dried food for camping, and really good food for the home

Reminds me of that Russian woman who explained before the camera (Thalassa, Fench FR3 television) how they lived up there, in the forests near Moermansk:

"In summer, we prepare for winter, and in winter, we do nothing" "

About British food lore: I bought this amazing book when I visited Colchester in 1999: "Food in England" by Dorothy Hartley (Little, Brown & Co., publishers) It's a compilation of food lore dating from 1954 and reprinted on paperback in 1999.

Oh, sorry: my true name is Nick, Ketchup stands for the pronounciation of "Ketje" (kiddy), the nickname for a boy from brussels.

 

[Jerky Meister]

Q..) How long do you generally marinate the beef before drying? I guess the longer the more flavour but guess it can also be overdone if too long?

A.depends on the flavour im making, the red wine flavour i leave in red wine, soya sauce and cracked black pepper for upto 3 days but for something like spicy i would leave for a couple of hours as we use fresh home grown chillies it doesnt need long to marinade lol


Q.Do you use saltpetre at all given the potential dangers of botulinum? and if not what sort of shelf life do you reckon properly dried jerky has? I realise it's not an exact science (thank goodness) but some idea.

A. we dont use saltpetre at all, we just dry it till there is zero moisture ,as for shelf life we have a 3 month shelf life after having had our stuff product tested at a lab, saying that i have eaten jerky i made over a year ago but thats cos we have a big vac packer which seals the bags airtight lol

Q.3) I would like to get some smokey flavour to my jerky and aim to cold smoke some for a few hours for flavour then finish off in the dehydrator. Or can I hot smoke quickly then dry? I prefer not to use liquid smoke

A. cold smoke afterwards is best

"1kg trimmed lean rump steak thinly sliced and quickly tenderised" i would suggest you buy skirt, its the best cut for jerkying IMHO

though alot of people now cook their meat before jerkying we dont, you lose an awful lot of flavour from the meat and if its dried correctly its not ( in my opinion ) necessary, after all its been an established way of preserving meat for thousands of years

hope that helped
martin

www.martinsjerkedmeat.com