camouflage why it works (or not) what insights do any one have on this?

[mr dazzler]

Camouflage fascinates me, its variety and how it can match to a specific situation. I have trousers of various types. I wear flecktarn most days for about 10 years or so (yes they do get washed from time to time , but have also got a pair of american woodland ones. I suddenly realised that they are different how they try to work. The woodland states strongly contrasting areas of color literally wheras the flecktarn sudgests or hints at them. I was trained as a visual artist and can clearly see the influence of the cubist artists eg braque and picaso in some camo types. I saw a german helmet with like a mondrian pattern on it And I thought hey the flecktarn type is like an early form of digital camo. And I thought that possibly the splinter types are like a type of the dazzle camo they put on ships. What thoughts has any one else on this topic? Why do some work and others dont? Whats your most favorite or useful camo? Has any one designed or experimented with their own pattern's?

here are a few camo ideas of my own. I wouldnt produce them other than hand paint enough for my own use to do a jacket or trouser etc

Cheers Jonathan

 

[Greg]

You need to shrink your photos, unable to read all the text.

 

[mr dazzler]

You need to shrink your photos, unable to read all the text.

Can you explain what shrink the photo's is please greg? Are the text getting cut off at the right side? when I am looking at the page everything is there What have I done wrong?
cheers Jonathan

 

[Greg]

Can you explain what shrink the photo's is please greg? Are the text getting cut off at the right side? when I am looking at the page everything is there What have I done wrong?
cheers Jonathan

Well if its showing ok on your computer its the damn adverts on the right hand side cutting everything off again on mine!
You haven't done anything wrong mate, this has been happening alot lately to alot of members and it seems that if you make the pictures smaller then all the text appears as it should.

 

[sharp88]

The mondrian pattern on the German helmet is the 'old skool' pattern that was used by GSG-9.

My thoughts on camo are, unless its 3D camo, i.e. a ghillie suit, it has to break up the shape of the wearer.

 

[oldsoldier]

Camo is only really effective if the subject stands still. The human eye will see movement before it sees an odd coloring. There is simply too many variables in nature for us to recreate. Giveaways are movement, or lack of (as in when the wind is blowing, and shadows move, and you dont), and a basic human shape. As someone else said, the use of a ghillie suit helps, but is FAR too cumbersome for the average grunt. Breaking up the silhouette by inserting foliage into your helmet works marginally; again, as long as you are sitting still.
We did a camo test in the 90's with several different patterns, to include what was the predecessor of the digital camo used by the US forces today. What they did was sent dummies out in this field, in various terrain, with different types of camo. Woodland, german flektar, british camo, older US OD camo used in vietnam, russian camo, and the digital stuff (it wasnt actually digital, but it was close; not as blended as the stuff you see today). The hardest to see was actually the vietnam OD ones....the other ones were too busy, and didnt blend as well.

 

[Greg]

The mondrian pattern on the German helmet is the 'old skool' pattern that was used by GSG-9.

My thoughts on camo are, unless its 3D camo, i.e. a ghillie suit, it has to break up the shape of the wearer.

No it doesn't break up the shape of the wearer it just helps with blending in to the colours of the background. A man in combats is still going to look like a man 200m away unless he breaks his shape up by using natural foliage or man made, stuff for example alot of lads use to cut sand bags into strips and tie it to their kit, unless of course your wearing a ghillie suit which does the job.
Camoflage isn't just colour there are a number of things.
Shape, shine, silouette, sound, smell, movement just to name a few.

 

[Fin]

The mondrian pattern on the German helmet is the 'old skool' pattern that was used by GSG-9.

My thoughts on camo are, unless its 3D camo, i.e. a ghillie suit, it has to break up the shape of the wearer.

Correct!

Love your ideas Mr Dazzler, but, as far as pattern goes - there is no use crawling through a wheatfield after Mr Bunny whilst wearing one of your creations!

You clearly have a talent for this (and the digital creation is the way that the US army have gone)

I would suggest a reversible set up with woodland/ moorland and summer/ winter as your themes.

If you were to go into clothing production - insist on a lot of attachment points/ loops for the individual to insert foliage etc to break up the human outline.

 

[Greg]

If you were to go into clothing production - insist on a lot of attachment points/ loops for the individual to insert foliage etc to break up the human outline.

Just like a sniper smock!!

 

[sharp88]

How would you print such a design though? Fabric paint is really pretty expensive and heavy. Fabric dye drizzled or somthing?

 

[weaver]

Camo is only good for the area it is intended to be used in. I see people all the time around here wearing desert tan camo. There ain't a desert in 1000 miles of here!

Go out and look around the area, what do you see? Try to reproduce that on your clothes.
Then, where you are dark (shadows) lighten the colors, where you are highlighted, (high spots) darken the colors. Don't follow the contours of your body. Don't make un-natural, odd, angular shapes, unless you plan to hide in a metal scrap yard.

If you plan to be in a forest go get leaves from that forest. Light leaves, dark leaves, big ones, small ones and some twigs too. Now reproduce those shapes and colors on your clothes. Add cut outs of those colors sewn to the cloth and glued to plastic kit.

It is simple really, just be the place you want to hide in.

 

[sharp88]

Looks like you put some pics through photoshop filters mr dazzler. Pretty sweet idea if you did. Id imagin they'd simplify and bring out the most abundant colours present in the origional.

 

[Greg]

BE THE BUSH...BE THE BUSH...

 

[KAE1]

Camo is only really effective if the subject stands still. The human eye will see movement before it sees an odd coloring. There is simply too many variables in nature for us to recreate. Giveaways are movement, or lack of (as in when the wind is blowing, and shadows move, and you dont), and a basic human shape. As someone else said, the use of a ghillie suit helps, but is FAR too cumbersome for the average grunt. Breaking up the silhouette by inserting foliage into your helmet works marginally; again, as long as you are sitting still.
We did a camo test in the 90's with several different patterns, to include what was the predecessor of the digital camo used by the US forces today. What they did was sent dummies out in this field, in various terrain, with different types of camo. Woodland, german flektar, british camo, older US OD camo used in vietnam, russian camo, and the digital stuff (it wasnt actually digital, but it was close; not as blended as the stuff you see today). The hardest to see was actually the vietnam OD ones....the other ones were too busy, and didnt blend as well.

Totally agree, being still is far more important than the colours. Some of the most succesful deerstalkers simply wore lovat, brown cords, olive moleskin etc. It was their skill of using the wind, moving slowly when you had to move and keeping still if you don't.

Deer, rabbits, hares are they camo? Yet survival is the strongest critic

 

[mr dazzler]

wow thanks for the responses.
I did indeed use photoshop filters, but using various filters at different settings and values on different areas of the image. I tried to put in a big picture sub image and a finer detail layer also. I merely went back to source and looked at stuff in my garden (various plants and trees) but also sand, pebbles gravel etc tailor made to an environment could use anything; and took a few pics with the power shot camera. I use lots of various color stain's and dye's on chairs and other wood furniture, and notice that once it gets onto material theres no way it will ever wash out, so might try that? It doesnt leave a "film" or thick skin but soaks into the cloth. I was thinking to bleed colors in like how watercolor painters apply color, or like certain abstaract painters apply color (eg Ken Noland) or even way out similar method as jackson Pollock Best example of dazzle type in nature I can think of is the butterfly's that appear to be huge predator eyes

 

[KAE1]

Mt Dazzler,
I'd be interested in your view of Kammos 'Image' pattern - see link. Some years ago I bought one of their jackets in that colour. The quality of the tuffsuede material was great but I found the colour too light, more like winter/snow camo. I opted for a realtree advantage timber Sportchief jacket.
With your interest in the subject I would appreciate your opinion.

http://www.kammo.co.uk/headwear/index.php

 

[John Fenna]

As to desert cam being used in britain - it works pretty well in reed beds, against stubble and, it would apear, in the high street!
John

 

[Tourist]

I look back at BAOR and remember having regular meetings with the Dutch, Germans, Belgians, French and Americans..............we looked like a cammo fruit salad. All of the patterns had been created to blend into the central European countryside, yet all of them were different........apart from the dutch who seem to like out DPM.

I like Flecktarn, which is popular in quite a few countries with slightly differing shades and colour combinations......even a Belgian unit used it for a while, and I have a whisper that they may still be using it operationally on the QT as the jigsaw cammo that Belgium is using is not exactly subtle on the eye.

One of the biggest problems with cammo design apparently is the use of black. There is not a great deal of full on black in nature, but black'ish colours do appear in shadow areas - so do you include black or do you rely on the wearers own naturally created shadow areas.

Multicam addresses the black issue as well as a few other issues. As well as a lack of natural black most naturally occuring, and even many man made, items are not made of continuous solid colour - they are toned or graduated. The designers of multicam incorporated this toning or graduation of colour into their design and claim that it helps the pattern fool the observers eye more readily.

I saw multicam being worn recently and I made one of the wearers stand in some bushes for me - for those that know, I used a nice background and a nice foreground - I was impressed with what I saw. A friend in Germany who has access to quite a few cammo patterns has played with them in the field doing comparative observation and his work gives multicam a tick. Added to which I am led to believe that although the US Govt did not take onboard the Multicam design it is being purchased by US Special Forces as a superior camoflage.

$orry, long post, you can tell I used to be a soldier.



PS Said friend in Germany is using some of the multicam principles and messing around with a toned / graduated flecktarn pattern that avoids the use of black.

PPS Was the GSG9 Mondrovian pattern the one called Sumpftarn. Thats the only one I remember them using until it was phased out, you still see some of the older members wearing the sumpftarn nowadays.

 

[torc]

Traditional cammo will only work if it copies it's surroundings but also disguises it's wearers shape as well. When a searcher visually scans an area his eyes will be automatically drawn to not only movement but familiar shapes as well and his mind will try to interpret them. Breaking up outlines, altering perceived shadows and varying cammo patterns on the hidden object can help.
Hunters may have extra problems, some animals can see colours differently and can also see slightly beyond the visual spectrum of humans.
I read somewhere that the new digital pattern and special coatings on the fabric is to confound varying types of electronically enhanced observation equipment.
Happy trails....torc.

 

[mr dazzler]

Again thanks for the interesting responses
Camo isnt as simple as it appears, it would appear!

As you can tell I am not from a military background, and am in no way an expert on camo ; I just take an interest and aproach it intuitively.
KAE I had a look at the IMAGE pattern. I think the underlying structure is flecktarnish. Its sort of different on each example (trouser/jacket and hat) Apart from it reminds me of my mams old chair cover's (it describes leaf form's literally), I like the bold contrasts of tone in fairly big areas. So you look more at the join of the 2 area's instread of picking up the silhuoette outline of the body form. Especially on the hat I like the use of warm areas of tone (earth browns) and cold ones (blue/grey) They could pass themselves off as gaps between tree's. I think it reminds me of japanese ink paintings where they draw a simplified stylised "tree" form to represent a "real" one, like theres the same structure at work, so it works at whatever scale or distance (just like sand very close up looks like a heap of boulders, same structure, but different scale) And they mix the scales up a bit to create confusion. Are you an artist or visually trained? Check out an excellent book "patterns in nature" (i forgot the author's name) loads of interesting stuff

I read somewhere that the new digital pattern and special coatings on the fabric is to confound varying types of electronically enhanced observation equipment.

I must admit I thought I wonder if they did have camo recognition software (just like face recognition for football hooligans/suspect terrorist's etc?) Is this the case nowaday's?
Maybe just supply plain jacket and trousers and let each man paint his own dpm to siut the ocasion That would confound the computer. Dont infantry men paint their face's. They dont get an identikit screen printed pattern do they? Why not self paint camo? Just a thought. Almost like warriors applying war paint?