Yet more rubbish!

[Deleted dude 7861]

After the Loch Lomond thread I was stunned to find two more areas in Scotland that have been hit by the who leave rubbish after they 'camp'.

Skye: Glenbrittle Forest pinic area..plastic bags full of rubbish, empty beer cans/bottles

Kinloch Hourn: 4 miles from the farm...beer cans, wine bottles, bags of rubbish,

Anybody got any ideas on how we can raise our presence, for example clear the rubbish and leave a little plackard saying 'cleared by Bushcraft UK' ? I dunno just something that would give us a good name and help a bit out in the country.

Just me right off to see idiots who are making estate owners give the real decent wild campers a hard time we camp without leaving a trace.

In Kinloch Hourn I was hounded out by the rangers who had decided to constantly make their presence felt and then fired a few shots to say 'go away we're deer hunting here'.

Maybe if we did a small campaign it would raise our 'sensible' campers status to those people?

Any ideas welcome........

 

[Elessar]

Thats a brilliant idea!! maybe a small laminated poster that could be hung of the branch of a nearby tree (though there is a risk of that becomming litter).......hmmm its actually a tough question....

 

[nicodiemus]

It really grinds my gears when people take the time to put stuff in a plastic bag, then throw the bloody thing down anyway!

 

[andy_e]

I'm tempted to suggest that we speak as a group to the Forestry Commision up here and offer to do site cleans, in exchange for "free" access - I know that we can camp legally anyway but I think we'd get less hassle if we approach them as responsible users of the countryside, and I think we'd gain their respect. It might be an idea to identify areas such as the ones you mention and organise a weekend or two through the year to clean and then enjoy the site.

A few friends of mine organise beach-cleans, can't be that hard to do something similar. Let's face it, the problem isn't going to go away but at least this way we would be SEEN to be practising what we believe in and raising the profile of BCUK at the same time. I don't see a problem with asking permission to leave a sign, saying something along the lines of "Cleaned by members of BCUK for YOUR benefit.", even if it's just a sticker on a fence or signpost.

 

[Deleted dude 7861]

That's a great idea Andy, got me thinking along the lines of contacting the Kinloch Hourn estate and offering to do a cleanup in exchange for 'free access' as this is one of the best areas I've come across for wilderness in Scotland. It would be nice to think that anywhere we go as BCUK that we're treated as sensible people and welcomed, that would be a fantastic status to have.

 

[jojo]

It really grinds my gears when people take the time to put stuff in a plastic bag, then throw the bloody thing down anyway!

Another vile bit of behaviour I absolutely hate is exhibited by "responsible dog owners" who pick up their dog's "decorations" in a plastic bag to show what good responsible citizens they are , then when no one's looking, lob that in a hedge or even in my garden to remain there for ever rotting and dangling in the wind. The ba****ds need shooting. I went on the beach on Sunday with my wife and counted 6 of the ****** things. I despair sometimes. It does not matter where I go, it's always littered with rubbish.

 

[rancid badger]

Here at Chopwell Wood, we organise an annual spring clean, where people can come along, and help to tidy the place up a bit. We issue gloves, bin bags and litter pickers and then when the punters return with their bags and borrowed gear, they get a soft drink and a bag of crisps or whatever ( more litter?-:11doh: ) Anyway, we arrange with the council for two skips to be made available and in conjunction with the Forestry Commission , the whole thing always goes quite well.

Amazingly(not really that amazing now I come to think about it!), there are always a small number of folk who, when you ask if they would like to join in, look at you as if your mad and even sometimes start to argue as to why the hell they should pick up anything at all. In my experience these people are usually dog walkers, but not always.

So; an idea! how about organising official clean ups at the various "havens", because thats what they are, involving the local people in charge, be they estate owners, F.C., councils M.O.D. or National Parks who ever it is. We get a decent amount of publicity from our clean ups and it cant hurt "genuine" Bushcrafters/wild campers/canoeists or whatever to be seen to be driving anti littering campaigns them selves.

just an idea

regards
R.B.

 

[andy_e]

Let's get a show of hands of who is willing to do something along these lines and perhaps ask if we have the blessing of BCUK to do it in their name.



Edit: Didn't see your post there RB, it's great to hear that you guys are already doing similar things.

 

[clgladiator]

tbh the two bin bags of litter left at the picnic site isnt that big a deal. Though this deends how it was left if the bin bags were just randomly dumped in the middle then thats not too good. But if they were left together kind of tidy next to a sign or something for the ranger to pick up that is relatively reasonable.

Picnic sites or such areas are created in woodland areas to act as honey pot sites to stop people going into the actual woodland. They see the nice grass wit benches and stop there. This is quite a popular visitor management strategy as it cuts down on people and litter in the actual woodland. The ranger know this so when they litter pick they only have to really litter pick the picnic site.

Im not trying to justify littering i think its disgusting but they could have done much worse ie leaving it strewn everywhere rather than in bin bags. or scattered it throughout the woodland rather than on a area of grass.

 

[andy_e]

tbh the two bin bags of litter left at the picnic site isnt that big a deal ....... Im not trying to justify littering i think its disgusting but they could have done much worse ie leaving it strewn everywhere rather than in bin bags. or scattered it throughout the woodland rather than on a area of grass.

You do have a valid point there. While I'd be happier if people carted out what they brought in, a couple of bin bags next to a sign is not that big a deal. However, in my experience few people are actually that considerate - and most of the sites I think we're talking about are well away from picnic tables and other amenities. I think this is really an extension of the thread that was discussing litter strewn all over the place, cheap "festival" tents etc. being left behind and burnt.

 

[Toadflax]

I've implied doing a similar thing to help sort out the problems at Glyn-y-Mul (though I've never been there and I'm not sure I'll ever get over there, so I'm being a bit of an armchair orator here!). But I'd be willing to help out on this sort of thing at places in my area if anything gets going.

I do think that it is important that we make our presence known - it's fine to clear litter quietly, but a lot of the stuff that bushcrafters want to do does depend on the goodwill of those who control the land and if we go in without a trace, then who is to know that we have been responsible. I suspect that many bushcraft types are quiet, wanting to get away from publicity, but I think that there are times when we do need to fly our own flag for what we believe in. It's not being immodest, it's showing others that we do care. And the adage that I see so rarely in my 'superiors': "Lead by Example".

So as far as Andy's show of hands, my hand is up in the air now.


Geoff

 

[Toadflax]

This is something I was thinking about the other day - not directly relevant to this thread - but a huge part of the problem is the way in which our food and drink is supplied to us.

In the days when you got a penny to take bottles back, and when you put your sandwiches in your bait box, there wasn't anything to throw away. Much of the issue is that our society is too well off - or things are too cheap. People don't have to work for things - they are too easy to get, and too easily replaceable. You wouldn't throw away your wicker picnic hamper or your thermos flask, or your net shopping bag that you made with Eric's net making kit. But an empty beer can, a carrier bag, or a sandwich wrapper has no value to most people so there is no reason for them to care what happens to it. I personally couldn't drop litter - it just seems so morally wrong to me, but I believe that I'm in a minority (though in like minded company here at BCUK!).

One of the biggest boosts to stopping litter would be to reduce packaging.


Anyway, end of mini-rant.


Geoff

 

[Matt Weir]

Let's get a show of hands of who is willing to do something along these lines and perhaps ask if we have the blessing of BCUK to do it in their name.

I feel very strongly about litter and would be up to help out.

 

[Shewie]

I`m always picking up litter after people when I`m out and about it`s just something I always done. I hate to see people dropping anything even if it will biodegrade eventually. One of my biggest peeves is folk chucking stuff out of car windows, I wish there could be a grassing line which you could ring a dob people in it. There`s probably no way this could be policed so it will never happen.
When I found my last permission I offered to pick up litter as part of our agreement, the land owner was really pleased and even offered to pay me for doing it, I refused of course.


Count me in to for helping to clear up.


Rich

 

[Deleted dude 7861]

Sounds like we should have a 2008 anti-litter campaign of some sort here, raise as much awareness as possible. Question is how would people want to go about it and can we use BCUK in name? I'm quite happy to organise as I have plenty of spare time on my hands.

Both sites I visited had tesco's carrier bags strewn open, thrown away from the main area, not even an attempt to bag up and leave in one area.

Felt sorry for the little tame robin in Glenbrittle I wonder how many noisy drunken campers he's had to put up with?

 

[andy_e]

There's a place I like to go that has a population of at least a dozen Robins in the bit I tend to camp and they wake me up plenty in the morning with their squabbling

I don't know whether it's worth giving a heads up to these people ...

http://www.encams.org/

... if we can get something organised.

 

[rancid badger]

Sounds like we should have a 2008 anti-litter campaign of some sort here, raise as much awareness as possible. Question is how would people want to go about it and can we use BCUK in name? I'm quite happy to organise as I have plenty of spare time on my hands.

Both sites I visited had tesco's carrier bags strewn open, thrown away from the main area, not even an attempt to bag up and leave in one area.

Felt sorry for the little tame robin in Glenbrittle I wonder how many noisy drunken campers he's had to put up with?

the only real problem with organising things like this is the logistics of it all, obviously the members of the forum are scattered all over the place, so your going to have to either arrange to clean up one or two places as full on events or two or three people get together on a local level which covers more sights but doesn't really promote itself.

If there are sites that are regularly used by bcuk members, which need attention ( the sites, not the members!) then arranging something along the lines of one of these bushmoot events may be the answer. It depends on how bad the site is but you could maybe spend a morning litter picking and banging the drum and then in the afternoon put on some demo's or tutorials or whatever you like.

regards
R.B.

 

[ol smokey]

Earlier this year there was a spell when the local teenagers to Dunblane area were going into the woods regularly and leaving the place a mess, lighting fires and leaving broken bottles and beer cans around. For three weekends in a row I went to these areas and collected several Kilos of broken glass and rubbish, and I also dispersed the ashes and half burnt branches over a wide area of the woods so that there was not so much ready material for them to light fires with. This was a lot of work but in the long run it worked, as they got fed up having to start the fires from scratch with less combusitble material to hand and this problem died out. Those involved were quite dedicated to their task while at it. They raided skips and took out recliner chairs and garden furniture to the areas concerned, however these eventually ended up being burnt too.( prior to them giving up.)
This did however leave large areas of burnt black plastic which it was not possible to remove. Fortunately most of the fire damaged sites have more or less reverted to nature and grown over which may help to discourage this happening in future.
There is a large wood south of Cambusbarron where there have obviously been many fires lit against the mature trees there, which are blackened well up their trunks ,One day there is going to be a real forest fire there, but the land owners do not seem to be doing anything to stop this. I am up for being involved in anything reasonably local , to combat
this litter and vandalism problem, should one be set up.
I know that we keep identities and addresses out of these Threads but is there no way that Groups of us from various areas could be linked up so that this could be tackled on an area by area basis? It should be no more difficult to do this than it is to do a Bulk Buy,except we do not know who is local to our own area. I agree if the powers that be
would approve, That this could be done in the name of BCUK and this would only do us credit as a group. If we were to do this on a voluntary basis and with the understanding
that involvement would be at our own risk then all should be O.K. I had thought about
trying to involve local people in this type of project, but nowadays you come across the
litigation and health and safety rules and regs. that seem to get into everything.

 

[andy_e]

My feeling was that it may be easier to organise locally and in small groups, I'd be (pleasantly) surprised if there were many more than half a dozen at each one, but to do so in the name of our wider community.

Edit: ol smokey - sorry didn't see your post, you are saying what I was thinking, most people have a location set in their profiles that give an idea where they are, and I for one wouldn't mind driving up to the Dunblane area for a clean-up if I could make a weekend in the woods of it.

 

[joejoe]

Here at Chopwell Wood, we organise an annual spring clean, where people can come along, and help to tidy the place up a bit. We issue gloves, bin bags and litter pickers and then when the punters return with their bags and borrowed gear, they get a soft drink and a bag of crisps or whatever ( more litter?-:11doh: ) Anyway, we arrange with the council for two skips to be made available and in conjunction with the Forestry Commission , the whole thing always goes quite well.

Amazingly(not really that amazing now I come to think about it!), there are always a small number of folk who, when you ask if they would like to join in, look at you as if your mad and even sometimes start to argue as to why the hell they should pick up anything at all. In my experience these people are usually dog walkers, but not always.

So; an idea! how about organising official clean ups at the various "havens", because thats what they are, involving the local people in charge, be they estate owners, F.C., councils M.O.D. or National Parks who ever it is. We get a decent amount of publicity from our clean ups and it cant hurt "genuine" Bushcrafters/wild campers/canoeists or whatever to be seen to be driving anti littering campaigns them selves.

just an idea

regards
R.B.

hi i live washington give ne a shout when the next chopwell cleanup is on please