Wot, No bayonet!

[BOD]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article7066220.ece

I never used mine for anything other than opening the odd can but this looks like a retrograde step.

You never know when you might need it and its a great deal better than using stones.

Sad that a fine military tradition should go.

 

[JohnL]

I was led to beleive that a bayonet was not that great to uses in confined spaces as it was to long/unweildy. Given it not great in big open spaces either I can see why they are doing it.

I think some units are issued with tomahawk, which seems like a good idea, they are very versatile, can be used for breaking down doors, digging, cqb etc.

 

[British Red]

SHIELDED only by a narrow bank of baked earth as bullets flew and a grenade exploded ominously close by, Corporal Mark Byles, 34, glanced at the four soldiers who lay sweating on the ground beside him and knew what they had to do.
“Fix bayonets!” he shouted. “We’re going to assault the positions in front. Are you all up for it?” There were no objections. With the steel in place on their SA80 rifles, the men of the Princess of Wales’s Royal Regiment (PWRR) charged across 600ft of open ground towards the enemy trenches, taking it in turns to stop and provide covering fire while their comrades advanced.

Byles, from Portsmouth, reached the first trench with another corporal, Brian Wood. “I wanted to put the fear of God into the enemy,” he said.

There is always a place for cold steel and iron discipline

 

[Ratbag]

Let me be the first to say "They don't like it up 'em, Sir!"

Rat

 

[Bravo4]

what the I'm out of the loop. Thanks for that BOD, I guess.

Take away the bayonets . Eliminate the training for infantry, big mistake IMO. I've got some idea why they are doing this and the press release is one side of it. Read between the lines. USMC won't drop 'em any time soon.

Should be a few in surplus available coming up.

 

[andybysea]

Fixing bayonet's and charging a enemy has a big psychological effect on both the attacker and the enemy, apparently the bayonet was used recently in Afghanistan by a Brit squaddie,and was used and help demoralise the Argentinian's in the Falklands war cant see us dropping it from our training any time soon,not only does it teach aggresion, but its cheap(so the politcians would like it)

 

[PeterHW]

Hmmmm.... I don't want to come over wrong here .... but with the shorter M4 and the Bull Pup designed SA80 .... I don't see the bayonet being anywhere near as useful a weapon as it was on the old SLR we used in the Falklands .... plus in the Falklands .... a Khukri was initially "thought to be" and then was "seen to be" a far more effective close quarter weapon. Very true when the Argie's and now in Afghanistan the Mujha's have chest magazine rig's as webbing .... or if coming up against more modern kit ... ceramic plates in webbing vests .... up close you want something that can really "chop" not just "stab" if you see what I mean.

The thing is .... will the US Army be looking for a replacement "Battle Knife" which is more effective than the bayonet? It does'nt say so ....and not having a belt knife of some description is a very bad mistake .... everything from MRE's to Ammo Boxes to IED's can have some use for a knife .... unless the idea is to allow a soldier to buy their own .... but then some units are restricted on the length of knife .... which is a shame if they cannot carry something effective like a khukri.

 

[Melonfish]

USMC are an aggressive force, well trained IMO in comparison to standard US Army grunts. always short of kit however the Marine "make do" attitude seriously gives them cred in my book and not dropping the bayo, good plan, its the ultimate backup. when you're out of ammo you may yet cause the enemy to flee with a bayo charge and they'd never know you could not have fired a shot, i bet its happened before and it'll happen again.

i'm glad to see the army is finally considering the masterkey set seriously, they've only been available since the 70's (vietnam use was a cut down mossberg underslung to an m16) and if they get off their butts that automatic shotgun with 12ga. grenades should make a nice adddition too. but its foolish to think you'll never need the bayonet. there's a reason its been in service for over 3 centuries!

 

[Tengu]

Isnt there a version of Kendo with mock bayonets?

 

[dave53]

my thaughts exactly bravo4 if they dont want em ill have one thanks
regards dave

 

[andybysea]

PeterHW granted there are better suited close defence weapons,entrenching tool,tomahawk,something like the clubs used on trench raids in WW1,a pistol what i was refering to was the psychological impact of seeing a platoon running towards you with fixed bayonet's(it would certainly make my behind quiver),and like i said its also used a a aggresion builder during training,granted it could be said that attacking something with a tomahawk or e-tool during training would have the same result,but the bayonet is also a knife,in some case's a wire cutter,mine detector,i do agree though it just aint the same on the SA80 as it was on the SLR but same could be said it was not the same on the SLR as it was on the SMLE.

 

[Bravo4]

Pugil sticks. LARPing with a serious purpose. The forerunner of Sumo suit fighting.

So I suppose that's gone as well.

God Bless young brothers, take care,

old dogface
B4

 

[Miyagi]

Isnt there a version of Kendo with mock bayonets?

Jukendo.

Taught to the Japanese Army (after 1877), utilising bayonet and rifle.

Edited to add; this is not a Budo nor Bujutsu/Bugei but was introduced by the British, the Royal Marines I think?

 

[pwb]

Bayonet charges are no longer regarded as relevant in the modern battlefield and the US Army has decided to switch its training to other forms of close-quarter combat — and to teach troops to improvise weapons from whatever is at hand, including lumps of wood or stones.

Surely improvised weapons are only an option if you've time to improvise them.
A bayonet would take seconds to fix and even without ammunition a rifle has definite presence and with a bayonet fixed to the front purpose.

What would of happened in this case if he had not had a bayonet I hate to think.

 

[Tengu]

We had pugil sticks as kids, until our parents took them away.

Having found they were verboten, and so desirable, we made more.

and incorporated them into a ball game.

 

[Maggot]

From Lt Anderson, 5th Battalion Royal Regiment of Scotland talking of the awarding of the MC following dealing with a machine gunner with a bayonet in Afghanistan in 2009. ’He was alive when it went in – he wasn’t alive when it came out. It was that simple.’

Also, "When two Land Rovers full of Argylls were ambushed by soldiers loyal to cleric Moqtada al-Sadr, they fixed bayonets and charged the militiamen.

Despite being outnumbered five-to-one, the British soldiers killed 35 Iraqi attackers in the charge and captured nine. "

I can't find the report (it probably was never printed is my guess), but I was doing some work with some REME guys a few weeks ago, and one of them was telling how, 3 days before they went home from Hellmand, one Scottish patrol walked around the corner to be confronted with half-a-dozen Taliban getting ready for an ambush. Apparantly the patrol leader got everyone back around the corner, told them to fix bayonets and they went back around and stabbed them to death!

Now there's a theme isn't there? Take all those complicated rifles and stuff from the Scottish Regiments and give them a pole with a chuffing great knife on the end

Who says the bayonet has no place in modern war?