Wild camp security... needs a mention.

[Drain Bamaged]

The Coypu were originally brought in for their fur but quite a few escaped. they were/are actually pretty harmless the main problem being the tunnels they make from the larger bodies of water (the Broads) through into the drainage ditches thus causing flooding when the waters are high. They can reach weights of over 30LB and believe me when you stumble across one in the dark or by torch/tilly light they do not exactly look cute or cuddly. I knew a few people that ate them and said they didn't taste bad at all, I was also told that the teats are on their back so the young that often rode on the females back could feed while on the water this was one of the things that made them good for the fur it was the belly fur that was used and there were/are no nipples to spoil the fur.

D.B.

 

[forrestdweller]

Snakes hearing is pretty bad, unless I have missed something.
They sense vibration and the their tongue has loads and loads of receptors.

Back to OP's question: I prefer to make my sleeping area away from humans, as humans are the ones which are most likely to hurt me. As I always sleep in a zipped up sleeping bag, surely it is unlikely a snake would venture past my snoring, smelly mouth?

snakes can sense vibrations, yes-- BUT that does to multiple experiences NOT mean they go away! the already-mentioned king brown lived for quite some time under the wooden shower floor until I took it apart and another time I banged the ground next to a tiger snake with a long stick (don't try that at home until you know snakes)-- no reaction @ all.....


in regards to post #80: dunno about the UK but nutrias were farmed on the continent until the market collapsed with the political changes of 1989 and following years, some "" farmers"" just got rid of them by releasing them in the wild. I saw them quite often ( and once a capybara family...) but they were not aggressive/dangerous.....

 

[Janne]

I referred to European snakes only, the only snake experience ( excluding the Caymanian grass snake and razor (?) snake ) I have.

I believe the Black Mamba has a habit of attacking too, but you will not encounter them outside Africa.

 

[Nomad64]

I referred to European snakes only, the only snake experience ( excluding the Caymanian grass snake and razor (?) snake ) I have.

I believe the Black Mamba has a habit of attacking too, but you will not encounter them outside Africa.

I ran over a black mamba a few years ago, it reared up and may have struck at the vehicle - in the circumstances I fully understand why it might have been a bit upset and don't blame it at all. Mindful of the stories of them deliberately wrapping themselves around the axle waiting to exact revenge on the unfortunate driver, when I got where I was going I parked up in a clear space (about 1500 m higher than their preferred habitat) and had a thorough but careful check under the vehicle to make sure I had not got an angry passenger with me - I hadn't!

A quick look a wikipedia (other, more authoritative websites are available) suggests that despite their size and the toxicity of their venom, black mambas are shy, move away from people and will avoid confrontation where possible and are responsible for comparatively few deaths each year.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_mamba

There are quite a few snakes such as cape cobras that make a nuisance of themselves by going into houses and ambush predators like puff adders that will sit concealed waiting for prey (or to be trodden on) but I think the likelihood of a black mamba sneaking into someone's sleeping bag (or hitching a ride user a vehicle to kill the driver) is pretty remote.

This thread seems to have strayed from considering what are prudent safety/security precautions to take while wild camping in the UK and elsewhere to telling scary stories round the virtual campfire about things that slither on no legs, skitter on many legs or have stings, fangs and/or claws which could cause your demise. Yes, there are lots of things out in UK countryside or wilderness overseas that could injure or kill you but when you are managing risk, you have to considerer both the nastiness of the harm you are worried about AND the likelihood of it actually happening.

By way of example, a while ago I saw a post on another site from a US purveyor of "tactical" tat to the paranoid prepper community with a picture of a wolf as justification for carrying a gun at all times when leaving the house - a couple of minutes googling revealed (IIRC) that since WW2 the grand total of two people in North America had died as a result of wolf attacks and one of them worked in a zoo. Now I suppose that this could be because everyone in North America carries a gun to deter wolf attacks (whether in urban areas or in the wilds) or it could be that as has been my experience of these wonderful animals, they are inquisitive but wary of humans and keep their distance.

 

[Trig]

This thread seems to have strayed from considering what are prudent safety/security precautions to take while wild camping in the UK and elsewhere to telling scary stories round the virtual campfire about things that slither on no legs, skitter on many legs or have stings, fangs and/or claws which could cause your demise.

My fault, one mention of my only fear being snakes while camping and look at this place now

Although i should add to that list of fears armed bushcrafters it seems.

 

[John Fenna]

The worst I have had invade my camp (in the way of wildlife) all happened in Africa....
In Ghana I had a very nasty type of scorpion crawl under my groundsheet - and nearly get me when I picked the groundsheet up to pack it...
In South Africa(perhaps it was Namibia - I can't recall which bank we were on) on the Orange River we found leopard tracks circling the tents one morning..
But the worst anywhere in the world has been Mozzies, Blackfly and Horseflies!

I have never had an issue with humans causing a problem (except dorks who were already part of our group!)....

 

[boatman]

I'm afraid it is not as simple as that boatman. The government places many restrictions and rules on both our land use, traditions, our hunting and so on. The state boarding system had a part but not necessarily a major part up north. There are plenty of older people here who never had access to schools. Don't believe everything on Wiki either.

The existence of rules and controls may be inhibiting and burdensome but their very existence and the perceived necessity for them shows that there are people still making a living from that way of life. But then we are all controlled whatever our way of living and for the most part it is necessary. Doesn't explain those that dismiss their traditional way of life, modified as it has to be, and refuse to join in the mainstream.

Incidentally references to Wiki are useful partly because lots of reference are tedious and the brainless comment one sometimes gets "to look it up for yourself" is insulting when the person making the point should also provide the evidence and references in support of their opinion.

 

[Joe tahkahikew]

Doesn't explain those that dismiss their traditional way of life, modified as it has to be, and refuse to join in the mainstream.

No you're right. But what do you do if you live on a res or in village where there are only a few jobs? Even here you can't just decide you'll be a hunter and disappear into the forest. Especially as you must go to school and most settlements are too small, so you must go to town like Timmins or Fort Smith and so on and rural communties don't have many jobs. You are given an anglo education but when you return you have lost some of your Cree indentity as a result. Government give those with no jobs welfare money so it simply becomes easy to stay at home, get drunk on booze or drugs. This is the same in many places and I saw the same in England. So for our children the choice is forget your heritage, and go to university - which always means leaving home where you may never return to (Much of the northern forests are a thousand miles from university) and get a job in a city.

Or Become a hunter, leave the village, move, hunt and give up on modern facilities and so on, kindly provided by the government in remote settlements.

Or simply stay in your village receive welfare benefits, go get drunk, or high on drugs, sit and watch sat TV.

Incidentally references to Wiki are useful partly because lots of reference are tedious and the brainless comment one sometimes gets "to look it up for yourself" is insulting when the person making the point should also provide the evidence and references in support of their opinion. I didn't mean to offend you using wiki, its jjust that I see so much rubbish written on there by people who don't live hear or understand.

Dave a poster here has a good signature line on his posts which explain why things are like this. Look at his signature.

Anyway I've been told that this is "way off thread" by one of our young people and that it'll "get pulled" - whatever that means.

Enju!

 

[boatman]

Good points Joe. As to the topic, I found that the relaxation of kipping down in the open dismissed any security issues. Also it is surprising how empty England can be. I've walked all day on the Downs or Dartmoor and seen only very few people at times. Must confess that overnights are only allowed by wife at the moment if I have company. Night soloing is not allowed by wife since my heart attack although sleeping out in the open still is if there are people in a nearby tent or roundhouse. Oddly she doesn't seem to mind me having a day alone in our wood or a single paddle out into Falmouth Bay though.

 

[santaman2000]

Of course we take care not to attract unwanted critters into our camps but not out of fear or worrying. Like driving car with seatbelt. Sensible but don't mean your scared of crashing does it?

I've never seen or heard anyone standing on a snake. They hear you long before you do that. I've not heard of any snake coming into someone's bed either......

I agree that "sensible precautions" and "fear" aren't exactl'y the same thing,. but I have indeed seen (personally seen) incidences of people stepping on snakes. In my case these incidences were always either walking near the water or wading in it and stepping on water moccasins. As i said earlier, These snakes have no ear of man and are quite aggressive.

Also sakes can't "hear" as we think of it. They can feel vibrations transmitted through the ground (and I imagine through the water also) but they are deaf to airborn sounds.

 

[santaman2000]

......By way of example, a while ago I saw a post on another site from a US purveyor of "tactical" tat to the paranoid prepper community with a picture of a wolf as justification for carrying a gun at all times when leaving the house - a couple of minutes googling revealed (IIRC) that since WW2 the grand total of two people in North America had died as a result of wolf attacks and one of them worked in a zoo. Now I suppose that this could be because everyone in North America carries a gun to deter wolf attacks (whether in urban areas or in the wilds) or it could be that as has been my experience of these wonderful animals, they are inquisitive but wary of humans and keep their distance.

More likey that low number was because wolves were virtually non-existant during that period. Not completely extinct, but nearly so. Now-a-days they're on the rebound and hunting them has been reinstated in some states. As yet they aren't generally considered much of a threat to humans (cattle and pet are a different story.

Coyotes however are quite prolific and impossible to truly control. They are also quite adaptable and do indeed hunt in suburban areas. So do black bears.

 

[santaman2000]

The only animal in North American and European areas I have heard have attacked a human, unless hurt or wounded, are:

Only when disturbed:
Bees, Wasps
Mama Bear will attack if she feels her cubs are in danger
For food;
Wolves ( happened last time I heard off, in Russia in 2014, a drunk got killed and partially eaten)
Polar Bears, Mosquitoes, Gnats. Tics
Wolverines can attack, never recorded as far as I know
Grizzlies I suppose?

Plus the most dangerous animal out there, Homo Sapiens.

Out west the bears (grizzlies) have learned that the sound of a rifle shot means fresh meat. Kinda like ringing the dinner bell.

The only animals to actually 'attack' me in the UK when 'camping' have been farm bred and released by dogooders Mink. This has not happened for a long time now but Fishing, Camping, or simply walking especially around water in parts of Lincolnshire was quite scary late 70's and early 80's. I assume they simply associated humans with food but they really were fearless (and apparently hungry).......the other beastie that scared the carp out of me was after walking back to the car to refill a tilly lamp whilst night fishing on Horning Broad on returning to my tackle a Rat literally the size of a medium dog was sat under my brolly. Ok the so called expert the next day after reporting it claimed it was in fact a Coypu and would have actually been harmless to me but me and James Herbert knew better.

D.B.

I had to check what a Coyou was! Also called Nutria.
Makes wonderful hats and furs.
The meat was eaten in former Eastern Block.
I guess one if the militant Vegan groups released it?

The Coypu were originally brought in for their fur but quite a few escaped. they were/are actually pretty harmless the main problem being the tunnels they make from the larger bodies of water (the Broads) through into the drainage ditches thus causing flooding when the waters are high. They can reach weights of over 30LB and believe me when you stumble across one in the dark or by torch/tilly light they do not exactly look cute or cuddly. I knew a few people that ate them and said they didn't taste bad at all, I was also told that the teats are on their back so the young that often rode on the females back could feed while on the water this was one of the things that made them good for the fur it was the belly fur that was used and there were/are no nipples to spoil the fur.

D.B.

Nutria are common in Louisiana as well and are still trapped for their fur. Many Cajuns and Coonasses (term for non-Cajun Louisianan) do still eat them as well.

 

[Nic Le Becheur]

What tune?

D.B.

I never asked what tune old Hassan Al-Mughrabi, Alia's grandfather, hummed while the python was cosying up to him in his tent. Given that the incident was presumably unusual enough to have warranted the story in the first place, I don't imagine there is some traditional Bedou snake-repellant chant, handed down the generations just in case. Might have been some verses from the Qur'an (it would be enough to make me start praying). Tell you what, D.B., I'll Facebook her and ask.

N Le B.

 

[Nomad64]

I agree that "sensible precautions" and "fear" aren't exactl'y the same thing,. but I have indeed seen (personally seen) incidences of people stepping on snakes. In my case these incidences were always either walking near the water or wading in it and stepping on water moccasins. As i said earlier, These snakes have no ear of man and are quite aggressive.

From the quick bit of interweb research I just did, on USA snake-bite fatalities and water moccasin/cottonmouth bites in particular;

"The Cottonmouth snake is a so called pit-viper and it is capable of delivering a rather painful bite. Fatalities from Cottonmouth bites are rare, and from the average of six annual fatalities from venomous snakebites in the US, Cottonmouths are seldom responsible for any deaths. These snakes are, generally speaking, not aggressive."

http://www.cottonmouthsnake.net/bites.htm

The article does state that a US army trainee in N Carolina died of cottonmouth bites in 2008.

To put this into context, in the UK in 2009, three walkers and one farmer were trampled to death by cows and although this was a particularly bad year, such deaths are not uncommon.

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/nature/hoofed-and-dangerous-britains-killer-cows-1776775.html

Even for those of us living in parts of the world where it has been centuries since any of them presented a potential danger, the "fear" of spiders, snakes, wolves, bears, lions etc. have been deeply ingrained in the human psyche through folklore and fairy tails. However, deciding what are "sensible precautions" involves putting these fears to one side and carrying out a simple risk assessment exercise balancing seriousness of the risk (potentially death) against the likelihood of actually being bitten - which statistically seems to be somewhere between being struck by lightning and being trampled by cows in the UK - not being a member of a church which indulges in Darwinian (oh the irony!) practices like snake handling, should further mitigate the risk.

I'm not going to tell you how to behave in your own backyard and while there clearly is a risk and it would be prudent to take certain precautions, but it seems likely that for most people, first world risks to health and happiness are a greater danger than snakes etc.

Also sakes can't "hear" as we think of it. They can feel vibrations transmitted through the ground (and I imagine through the water also) but they are deaf to airborn sounds.

Whether or not snakes can "hear" airborne sounds seems to be a moot point;

http://jeb.biologists.org/content/215/2/ii.full

Whether they can "hear" you in the strictest sense is a bit irrelevant since with the array of sensors they possess, it is unlikely that you will get close to a conscious snake without it being aware of your presence. Whether the snake moves away, stays put hoping you haven't seen it or exhibits threatening/warning behaviour will depend on the species but (with the possible exception of some of the larger constrictors), you are not on its menu and it has nothing to gain from a confrontation with you.

More likey that low number was because wolves were virtually non-existant during that period. Not completely extinct, but nearly so. Now-a-days they're on the rebound and hunting them has been reinstated in some states. As yet they aren't generally considered much of a threat to humans (cattle and pet are a different story.

Coyotes however are quite prolific and impossible to truly control. They are also quite adaptable and do indeed hunt in suburban areas. So do black bears.

Maybe in decades to come, the expanding populations of wolves will make the north America wilderness areas as dangerous as the English countryside although I can't see a film about a belligerent herd of Jerseys being quite as compelling as the Revenant or the Grey!

 

[Nic Le Becheur]

The only animal in North American and European areas I have heard have attacked a human, unless hurt or wounded, are:

Only when disturbed:
Bees, Wasps
Mama Bear will attack if she feels her cubs are in danger
For food;
Wolves ( happened last time I heard off, in Russia in 2014, a drunk got killed and partially eaten)
Polar Bears, Mosquitoes, Gnats. Tics
Wolverines can attack, never recorded as far as I know
Grizzlies I suppose?

Plus the most dangerous animal out there, Homo Sapiens.

- Add to that list, Pigs. Specifically, sows with a young litter. In parts of the New Forest, for instance, they are put out to pannage (feeding on beech mast or acorns). Mummy Pig takes a very dim view of anyone she doesn't know venturing near young Peppa and her siblings. If you ever see piglets in the woods, make a wide detour.

 

[santaman2000]

.....

From the quick bit of interweb research I just did, on USA snake-bite fatalities and water moccasin/cottonmouth bites in particular;

"The Cottonmouth snake is a so called pit-viper and it is capable of delivering a rather painful bite. Fatalities from Cottonmouth bites are rare, and from the average of six annual fatalities from venomous snakebites in the US, Cottonmouths are seldom responsible for any deaths. These snakes are, generally speaking, not aggressive.".....

I'd agree on the fatality rate, but the research on their agressiveness flies in the face of decades f personal experience.

 

[santaman2000]

.......Maybe in decades to come, the expanding populations of wolves will make the north America wilderness areas as dangerous as the English countryside although I can't see a film about a belligerent herd of Jerseys being quite as compelling as the Revenant or the Grey!

Haven't seen The Revenant. Nor The Grey. I doubt wolves are going to ever pose the same level of threat as coyotes, cougars, or bears; All of these species are less fearful of humans and the first two are prone to prowling the suburbs. Black also prowl the suburbs but still display an aversion for actual contact. None-the-less we have at least one mauling per year here in Okaloosa County alone. Grizzlies, as I have said, actually move toward the sound of rifle fire in search of a free meal.

But as you stated, outsiders tend to believe the myths instead; so continue to believe the crap published the so-called "nature" media over the personal experiences of real outdoorsmen, farmers, loggers, and wildlife professionals (Fish and Wildlife Officers)

 

[Janne]

Thanks, Nic, will remember that.
I have had two Encounters of Second Grade with boar in Europe, once in Hungary and once in Italy. Sleeping rough both times, pigs woke me up when they searched around me for food. They are very noisy.
I woke up scared sh*tless both times.

 

[Janne]

The Grizzlies are truly smart!
They have learned that where the shop originates from they have a choice of meats, the fat, sweet human flesh or the lean, healthy bushmeat!

 

[santaman2000]

The Grizzlies are truly smart!
They have learned that where the shop originates from they have a choice of meats, the fat, sweet human flesh or the lean, healthy bushmeat!

You left out the horsemeat from many hunters' mount and pack animals.