Wild camp security... needs a mention.

[Herbalist1]

By comparison to the rest of the world our adders are basically harmless, sure they have venom but the number of adults killed by them is fewer than the number killed by Biscuits, or vending machines, or trousers.

J

well that's done it - now I've developed an irrational fear of trousers.
if any of you see me wandering around the woods in the middle of the night without my trousers you'll know it's not my fault!

 

[Quixoticgeek]

well that's done it - now I've developed an irrational fear of trousers.
if any of you see me wandering around the woods in the middle of the night without my trousers you'll know it's not my fault!

Utili kilt?

You may want to avoid the biscuits... especially those that come from vending machines...

J

 

[Herbalist1]

Utili kilt?

You may want to avoid the biscuits... especially those that come from vending machines...

J

That might save me from getting arrested - esp. as I'm going to be having to spend more time in the wilds, well away from biscuits and vending machines

 

[Joe tahkahikew]

its funny, I can't think any of us worried about being in the bush. Bear, fox, wolf, northern rattlesnake or other animals we see of little matter when we are out in the bush (forest). Like many of my fellow first nations I love the sound, sights and smell of what you guys call the wilderness. It holds no terrors for us. It is not a wild place to be feared.

I worry far more about sleeping in towns where people steel from you or attack you for money and drunk people become agressive and angry. Many places have bars on the windows to stop bad people coming in. There is no such need in the northern forests.

When I came to England my friend took me to an industrial city I won't name where many people did not work. Big places of industry where clouds of chemicals came out of smoke stacks with strange smells. I can't imagine living there. No natural places, or forests to breath in. Just dirty places full of rubbish and smell of cars and trucks. He joked that we should not get out of car or the wheels might vanish! I would be more afraid to sleep in this town. Oh sure Canada has such places and i am sad to say many first nations people suffer the same problems with drink and drugs as I saw in that town.

But i am glad I have our northern forests to go to, it provides a safe home and plenty of food.

 

[Wayne]

its funny, I can't think any of us worried about being in the bush. Bear, fox, wolf, northern rattlesnake or other animals we see of little matter when we are out in the bush (forest). Like many of my fellow first nations I love the sound, sights and smell of what you guys call the wilderness. It holds no terrors for us. It is not a wild place to be feared.

I worry far more about sleeping in towns where people steel from you or attack you for money and drunk people become agressive and angry. Many places have bars on the windows to stop bad people coming in. There is no such need in the northern forests.

When I came to England my friend took me to an industrial city I won't name where many people did not work. Big places of industry where clouds of chemicals came out of smoke stacks with strange smells. I can't imagine living there. No natural places, or forests to breath in. Just dirty places full of rubbish and smell of cars and trucks. He joked that we should not get out of car or the wheels might vanish! I would be more afraid to sleep in this town. Oh sure Canada has such places and i am sad to say many first nations people suffer the same problems with drink and drugs as I saw in that town.

But i am glad I have our northern forests to go to, it provides a safe home and plenty of food.

I have travelled a fair bit for work and stayed in various hostile environments both naturally hostile and ones where the people get frisky when they realise your not a local.

It's always the human element that concerns me. Walking through central Yellowknife late at night can be scary. Lots of drunk Native Americans hanging around. We actually ended up going for a drink with a couple.

Winnepeg is probably my least favourite city in Canada again lots of young male native Americans struggling to find direction. Our fault of course systemically removing their history and culture with the State boarding school system.

Parts as of Eastern Europe have a feel of the Wild West I was more afraid in Kalingrad than pretty much anywhere hot and sandy.

I find learning about the flora and fauna of the area you are moving through is time well spent. Take time to learn about the social problems of an area your moving through be respectful of the people and nature and there should be no reason for conflict.

I never carry fire arms in bear country as I'm not very good with guns and a tourist too much paperwork.

 

[forrestdweller]

I really loath snakes. Constrictors don't bother me too much (but don't fancy meeting something like an anaconda).

Poisonous snakes make my flesh creep and I hated the idea of waking up to one in Australia, or in my boots. It's a very real possibility in the area I lived; you don't want to be bitten by a Tiger snake. Dugites not so much of a threat, they are timid and the venom isn't so potent. Still a horrible prospect and they were so common it was very usual to go bushwalking and not come across a Dugite.

fear of snakes seems quite common in humans-- which I cannot really understand...... .o.k., I don't fancy getting bitten,either but in all my time in gods own country I never had any issues----- and once I shared a shower with a 5ft king brown..... . keeping your eyes open, not putting your hands where you cannot see, lifting things the correct way of the ground and giving snakes a chance to get away when you encounter them will drasticly minimize the risk of getting bitten.....
the only snake which freaks me out is the Japanese/Korean relative of the rattlesnake (mamushi/toksa(paem)/salmosa) as they're aggressive and well-camouflaged----- but despite liking to hike barefoot I never got bitten, yet ( knocks on wood)......




I already said it before: homo "" sapiens"" are FAR more dangerous than any other animal on the planet!

 

[Quixoticgeek]

its funny, I can't think any of us worried about being in the bush. Bear, fox, wolf, northern rattlesnake or other animals we see of little matter when we are out in the bush (forest). Like many of my fellow first nations I love the sound, sights and smell of what you guys call the wilderness. It holds no terrors for us. It is not a wild place to be feared.

Really? In another [post=1687894]thread[/thread] you mentioned the concern and actions you take regarding keeping bears away from your camp. Doesn't seem to quite run with the not worrying...

I worry far more about sleeping in towns where people steel from you or attack you for money and drunk people become agressive and angry. Many places have bars on the windows to stop bad people coming in. There is no such need in the northern forests.

I don't have bars on my windows...

When I came to England my friend took me to an industrial city I won't name where many people did not work. Big places of industry where clouds of chemicals came out of smoke stacks with strange smells. I can't imagine living there. No natural places, or forests to breath in. Just dirty places full of rubbish and smell of cars and trucks. He joked that we should not get out of car or the wheels might vanish! I would be more afraid to sleep in this town. Oh sure Canada has such places and i am sad to say many first nations people suffer the same problems with drink and drugs as I saw in that town.

But i am glad I have our northern forests to go to, it provides a safe home and plenty of food.

One day when I have the money I hope to visit the Northern Forest, it'll be strange, and I hope beautiful, and because I've not been before some areas will hold fears for me, and I will need to talk to a local guide so I know what not to tread on (snakes), where not to go (upto the bear, under the rock fall, in the middle of the bog), and what not to do (set fire to the whole forest). The same as you had a friend who told you where not to get out the car because it might not be safe.

Everywhere is slightly different, this forum has a substantial UK lean to it (it says so in the name), and as such the concerns we have are UK centric. Would you camp within 10 miles of the industrial city you visited? Many of us don't have a choice as we can't get more than ten miles from the cities because there isn't the wide open spaces of the likes of Canada.

As for the Ophidiophobia, how would *YOU* as a first nations deal with a rattlesnake crawling into your bed when camping?

J

 

[Joe tahkahikew]

Of course we take care not to attract unwanted critters into our camps but not out of fear or worrying. Like driving car with seatbelt. Sensible but don't mean your scared of crashing does it?

I've never seen or heard anyone standing on a snake. They hear you long before you do that. I've not heard of any snake coming into someone's bed either.

Your right, wouldn't sleep close to some of your towns !!! Or some of our cities!

 

[Quixoticgeek]

Of course we take care not to attract unwanted critters into our camps but not out of fear or worrying. Like driving car with seatbelt. Sensible but don't mean your scared of crashing does it?

I've never seen or heard anyone standing on a snake. They hear you long before you do that. I've not heard of any snake coming into someone's bed either.

Then you've not read this thread fully. There are several accounts of people having snakes coming into their beds or their proximity while sleeping.

As for the hearing you, shall we introduce you to the Death adder, sometimes called the deaf adder. To quote one Aussie snake expert:

"I've heard of 10 people in line walk over a deaf adder, and then the 11th get bit".

Given how well many snakes are able to blend into their surroundings very well, you can perhaps see why stepping on a snake is not entirely unheard of. And of course in many areas the path is a clear bit in the sun the snake can lay to warm up.

Your right, wouldn't sleep close to some of your towns !!! Or some of our cities!

Thus brings us back to the original point of this thread, for those of us with no choice, what do we do to help feel safe?

J

 

[boatman]

"Winnepeg is probably my least favourite city in Canada again lots of young male native Americans struggling to find direction. Our fault of course systemically removing their history and culture with the State boarding school system. "

Boarding system still going? Wiki suggests it stopped years ago and compensation paid by Government. Or is this an alibi for those who choose not to accept the advantages offered by the modern world?

 

[Wayne]

The boarding school system was stopped but I still have friends in Canada that went through it and were forced to have their hair cut and not allowed to speak their native language.

i think the effects of losing one's culture coupled with little prospect of employment has lead to issues with drink and drugs. However the is some good leadership in some of the Banns and I think there are a reasons to be positive for the future.

I'm no expert on the subject. Just my observations of staying in First Nations communities and calling a few people friends.

 

[Samon]

Video doesn't work for me..

I'm a wimp so don't stay out often.

A buddy of mine was clubbed with a croket? mallet years ago while ina tent. 3 of them in the tend mind, and he got beaten all over in a flurry of crack head attacks. Lumps all over his back, head and arms like tennis balls lol.

The mallet thing was theirs though, they had found it ina nearby park and left it outside their tent.. also in a park. Bad collection of choices to be fair.

 

[Janne]

Snakes hearing is pretty bad, unless I have missed something.
They sense vibration and the their tongue has loads and loads of receptors.

Back to OP's question: I prefer to make my sleeping area away from humans, as humans are the ones which are most likely to hurt me. As I always sleep in a zipped up sleeping bag, surely it is unlikely a snake would venture past my snoring, smelly mouth?

 

[Joe tahkahikew]

Really? In another [post=1687894]thread[/thread] you mentioned the concern and actions you take regarding keeping bears away from your camp. Doesn't seem to quite run with the not worrying...

Julia, as I said in that post before it is done not because we are worried or frightened. A bear coming into camp for food will tear your gear up and ruin your trip. But the only bear that will do this is black bear in places where hunters or others have left out food or had dirty campsite.



I don't have bars on my windows...

I did not say I was frightened to sleep in or near towns. But both in England and over hear I've seen ground floor windows of hotels and bars with metal barred windows.



One day when I have the money I hope to visit the Northern Forest, it'll be strange, and I hope beautiful, and because I've not been before some areas will hold fears for me, and I will need to talk to a local guide so I know what not to tread on (snakes), where not to go (upto the bear, under the rock fall, in the middle of the bog), and what not to do (set fire to the whole forest). The same as you had a friend who told you where not to get out the car because it might not be safe.

Everywhere is slightly different, this forum has a substantial UK lean to it (it says so in the name), and as such the concerns we have are UK centric. Would you camp within 10 miles of the industrial city you visited? Many of us don't have a choice as we can't get more than ten miles from the cities because there isn't the wide open spaces of the likes of Canada.

Many white folk from towns & cities here are scared of being in the bush (for different reasons) but there is absolutely no reason to worry about snakes. I've never heard of anyone standing on one and I've never heard of one creeping into camp

As for the Ophidiophobia, how would *YOU* as a first nations deal with a rattlesnake crawling into your bed when camping? I've got absolutely no idea because it never would happen or the possibility is so remote we don't even figure it into our thoughts.

J

I hope my replies are suitable and I do not offend.

 

[Joe tahkahikew]

"Winnepeg is probably my least favourite city in Canada again lots of young male native Americans struggling to find direction. Our fault of course systemically removing their history and culture with the State boarding school system. "

Boarding system still going? Wiki suggests it stopped years ago and compensation paid by Government. Or is this an alibi for those who choose not to accept the advantages offered by the modern world?

I'm afraid it is not as simple as that boatman. The government places many restrictions and rules on both our land use, traditions, our hunting and so on. The state boarding system had a part but not necessarily a major part up north. There are plenty of older people here who never had access to schools. Don't believe everything on Wiki either.

 

[Joe tahkahikew]

Then you've not read this thread fully. There are several accounts of people having snakes coming into their beds or their proximity while sleeping.

Well Julia the only post I found mentioning an account of snake coming into camp was number 49 and that was to someone else and in Jordan. But as many people have said on here before, snakes don't bother you but people are scared of them all the same.


As for the hearing you, shall we introduce you to the Death adder, sometimes called the deaf adder. To quote one Aussie snake expert:

"I've heard of 10 people in line walk over a deaf adder, and then the 11th get bit". Interesting! Why did nine people walk over a dangerous snake? ....But this was in Australia we don't have deaf adders here.

Given how well many snakes are able to blend into their surroundings very well, you can perhaps see why stepping on a snake is not entirely unheard of. And of course in many areas the path is a clear bit in the sun the snake can lay to warm up.

Like I said before Julia I never heard of anyone here standing on a snake and no one has said they have done so



Thus brings us back to the original point of this thread, for those of us with no choice, what do we do to help feel safe?

J

I can only speak about what I know. I did sleep out on the North York Moors with my friend and some others. I wasn't concerned and neither were they. Over here when I used to be involved in guiding white folk I noticed many were nervous when in the bush but I didn't want to trouble them about what they were nervous about and many took precautions about things none of us would bother with. I remember one guy insisting he slept with a loaded big caliber pistol at hand. We were more worried about him waking up with bad dream and shooting at us than the bear he was frightened of, so we slept away from his tent. The next night he'd drank whiskey so we removed it from him as soon as he fell asleep!!!!

I just read the bit about you being attacked close to home and I'm real sorry about that Julia and that must make it real bad worry when you're out close to towns & cities too. Thats all I can say.

 

[Nomad64]

An interesting thread which shows the wide range of experiences of and attitudes to wild camping both in UK and around the world.

Although I've wild camped in some fairly wild and remote places in the world, I have to confess to being a bit concerned about wild camping in the UK other than in places where it is traditionally accepted (such as above the enclosed areas in the Lakes, Snowdonia and the Brecons) simply because although I have nothing to fear from any of the local wildlife, we live on a crowded island and it is difficult to get away from "civilisation" and all the baggage that that brings. However, I probably ought to grow a bigger pair and try some of the semi-wild areas on my doorstep such as the Long Mynd.

I've been lucky enough to spend a fair bit of time wildcamping in the African bush where you share your campsite with whatever happens to wander through and I've never ceased to be amazed at how animals like elephant and lions seem to respect or ignore tents. Sure there are exceptions and I did once have to help someone who had made the mistake of sleeping in a hooped bivi near a thoroughfare popular with pachyderms - a bruised shoulder and a crushed sigg bottle was the only damage but I've watched elephants gently tip-toe around guy ropes and lions completely ignore people sleeping in quite small tents even though they must know what is on the other side of a thin layer of nylon or canvas.

I'm with JT on snakes, wolves etc. - I've seen a lot of snakes which could seriously spoil your day (and probably not seen many, many more) but a decent pair of boots, long trousers and being aware of where you are treading or putting your hands help keep you safe. I've camped with wolves (only once, they kept a respectful distance) but camping in bear country would worry me a lot - and did so long before I saw the Revenant! I guess its what you are used to, I've had run ins with elephant, lions, hyenas, buffalo and hippos but am quite comfortable camping in the African bush. Being careful about tidying food away, especially at night is an important discipline but having seen the precautions that wild campers in bear country in the US and Canada have to take with regard to food etc., I'm not sure I would sleep very soundly at all. Bears don't seem to have the same respect for tents etc. that potentially dangerous beasts in Africa seem to have. That said, I've only done a few day hikes in the US Rockies so can't really claim any firsthand experience and will defer to those who have.

I guess this thread shows is that the personal security while camping is a pretty subjective concept though hopefully few would argue that guns and booze is a genuinely scary combination.

 

[Janne]

The only animal in North American and European areas I have heard have attacked a human, unless hurt or wounded, are:

Only when disturbed:
Bees, Wasps
Mama Bear will attack if she feels her cubs are in danger
For food;
Wolves ( happened last time I heard off, in Russia in 2014, a drunk got killed and partially eaten)
Polar Bears, Mosquitoes, Gnats. Tics
Wolverines can attack, never recorded as far as I know
Grizzlies I suppose?

Plus the most dangerous animal out there, Homo Sapiens.

 

[Drain Bamaged]

The only animals to actually 'attack' me in the UK when 'camping' have been farm bred and released by dogooders Mink. This has not happened for a long time now but Fishing, Camping, or simply walking especially around water in parts of Lincolnshire was quite scary late 70's and early 80's. I assume they simply associated humans with food but they really were fearless (and apparently hungry).......the other beastie that scared the carp out of me was after walking back to the car to refill a tilly lamp whilst night fishing on Horning Broad on returning to my tackle a Rat literally the size of a medium dog was sat under my brolly. Ok the so called expert the next day after reporting it claimed it was in fact a Coypu and would have actually been harmless to me but me and James Herbert knew better.

D.B.

 

[Janne]

I had to check what a Coyou was! Also called Nutria.
Makes wonderful hats and furs.
The meat was eaten in former Eastern Block.
I guess one if the militant Vegan groups released it?