Why even Ray Mears dies alone in the subarctic -- part 1

[Hoodoo]

Pretty common for trappers, prospectors, surveyors, and scientists to spend a few months alone in northern wilderness but they take in a goodly amount of supplies as well. If you want to read what happens when the supplies run out, read RM Patterson's Dangerous River.

 

[rik_uk3]

Of course he had resupply, as did the mountain men of old, many of those who did not, died. A fantastic character, and an honest 'bushcrafter'

to download
http://stagevu.com/video/ogspldtejlsv

I've stated here that IMHO living off the land in the UK is impossible, you would ultimately starve to death, this thread seems to back up that view, perhaps I won't get slagged off in future for daring to suggest bushcraft skills are not always enough.

 

[British Red]

Startlingly good post - and one that I for one have learned a lot from!

Thanks

 

[Mikey P]

I've stated here that IMHO living off the land in the UK is impossible, you would ultimately starve to death, this thread seems to back up that view, perhaps I won't get slagged off in future for daring to suggest bushcraft skills are not always enough.

No. You'll still get slagged off for daring to speak the heresy that man cannot survive on bushcraft alone.

 

[76bts]

great discussion - I do worry about having to survive for a long period of time in the wilderness and although bushcraft skills will get me by to a certain point you will need supplies. The good thing is that by simply adding to your bushcraft kit a netbook with mobile broadband dongle and a debit card as long as you live within 15miles of tesco the friendly delivery man will drop supplies off at your camp, he'll even leave them under your tarp if you're out forraging at the time. On a serious note I think bushcraft/survival skills are a great way to build confidence in the outdoors and one day in the right (or wrong) situation they may save your life by keeping you alive for a few hours/days until help arrives in an accident/survival situation.

 

[Toddy]

I've stated here that IMHO living off the land in the UK is impossible, you would ultimately starve to death, this thread seems to back up that view, perhaps I won't get slagged off in future for daring to suggest bushcraft skills are not always enough.

Of course you're going to get slagged off..............it's astonishing really how humanity ever managed to survive according to all you clever folks telling us down to the last calorie how much we need to eat.
Feast and famine changes the way the body utilises food. Seasonal changes alter the hormonal levels and adjust more than just the fight, flight or fertilise bits of our psyche and physiques.

The UK is an incredibly rich environment. Our coastlines alone, with both fish and fowl provided amply for our ancestors. Why wouldn't it do so for us now ??
Agreed it wouldn't provide for the entire present population but that's only manageable now because of farming. People harvested the land long before they cultivated it.......right now we're awash with acorns, beech nuts and hazelnuts. The ponds are full of the rhizomes of the big rushes, the ground is full of pignuts, celandines, silverweed........and so, so many more edibles.

In the space of less than a week, one of my neighbours has brought home 24 pigeons, two brace of something feathery, half a dozen rabbits, two deer, three salmon, and five geese. Thankfully we all have freezers
Tell me why any competently capable adult couldn't do likewise ?

Food needs attention to find it, patience and practice to acquire it, but it's not beyond mortal wit to survive healthily in our islands.

Interesting thread Thank you for starting it
I agree, community works better than individuality when it comes down to the survival of our species

cheers,
Toddy

 

[John Fenna]

The trouble is - as I see it - without the resources of modern weapons (and resuply of ammo) is that it would take the "modern man" so long to get his head around the skills and practice of effective foraging and hunting that he would starve in the midst of a wild feast!
In the right season I belive I could live quite well off the land around here...but as I lack the skills and knowledge to store foods in a glut then come the lean times I would probably starve!
I would think that the combined knowledge and specialization of a group or "tribe" would make living off the land a possiblity - but not for everyone at current population numbers.
At my age I just do not have the time to learn and perfect all the skills I would need to survive a year alone in the wild!

 

[Toddy]

Yeah, well said
Though I have seen excellent shots with long bow, catapults and spears. I also know folks who make and use traps and nets with great effect.

We also have different views of the way life is lived to our ancestors though. Our lives are busy, busy, busy.........maybe that's why bushcraft has such an appeal, it's a time to just take time

I freely admit that I would struggle to survive on just the natural resources around us, but that's mostly because I won't eat meat, fish or fowl. I think I'd get very lean if I did, but I think survival is quite possible.

Nowadays, with present population levels, we need to farm or at lleast smallhold.

I wish I knew so much more about the plants and foods around us I think I know enough to know I don't know enough.........ah well, it's another reason to read the forums

cheers,
Mary

 

[forestwalker]

The trouble is - as I see it - without the resources of modern weapons (and resuply of ammo) is that it would take the "modern man" so long to get his head around the skills and practice of effective foraging and hunting that he would starve in the midst of a wild feast!

My guess is that to become a decent paleolithic hunter would take at least 5 years of more-or-less full time practice. Gatherer could perhaps be done in a couple of years. This assumes instruction from a competent teacher in both cases! With a rifle and shotgun it becomes easier (it takes a week or so to learn to shoot ok, years with the longbow, sling etc), and tghe range is greater; few archers can reach out and kill a moose at 150 m, which is simple with a scoped rifle).

 

[Toddy]

True, true, but we know from archaeological finds that usually big game is shot by multiple hunters to bring it down, or as in the buffalo jumps in America and pre ice age Britain, chased into a kill zone.
Similarly fish traps are built to catch the fish on the retreating tide.

cheers,
Toddy

 

[forestwalker]

True, true, but we know from archaeological finds that usually big game is shot by multiple hunters to bring it down, or as in the buffalo jumps in America and pre ice age Britain, chased into a kill zone.
Similarly fish traps are built to catch the fish on the retreating tide.

Which bring us back to the group issue. But even then there is lots of tricks that "we" don't know, etc. And all of those depend on there being suitable game for it. Around here there were pit traps for moose (not a one day project for a single person without a backhoe...), and self release bows were used for moose as well (doable by a single person, but a clear felony reckless endangerment and illegal hunting today; it used to be that you had to tell everyone in church when/where you had set one up).

And as to traps; I know how to make them, but have never had any great oppourtunity to try them (illegal, but I know a person who has taken rats and mice in his barn with deadfalls).

 

[Toddy]

In the UK fishing is heavily handedly legally proscribed to favour 'sport' fishing, rather than putting dinner in a tummy
Likewise wildfowling and sea mammals, though the latter is mostly conservation efforts these days.

cheers,
Toddy

 

[rik_uk3]

Of course you're going to get slagged off..............it's astonishing really how humanity ever managed to survive according to all you clever folks telling us down to the last calorie how much we need to eat.
Feast and famine changes the way the body utilises food. Seasonal changes alter the hormonal levels and adjust more than just the fight, flight or fertilise bits of our psyche and physiques.

The UK is an incredibly rich environment. Our coastlines alone, with both fish and fowl provided amply for our ancestors. Why wouldn't it do so for us now ??
Agreed it wouldn't provide for the entire present population but that's only manageable now because of farming. People harvested the land long before they cultivated it.......right now we're awash with acorns, beech nuts and hazelnuts. The ponds are full of the rhizomes of the big rushes, the ground is full of pignuts, celandines, silverweed........and so, so many more edibles.

In the space of less than a week, one of my neighbours has brought home 24 pigeons, two brace of something feathery, half a dozen rabbits, two deer, three salmon, and five geese. Thankfully we all have freezers
Tell me why any competently capable adult couldn't do likewise ?

Food needs attention to find it, patience and practice to acquire it, but it's not beyond mortal wit to survive healthily in our islands.

Interesting thread Thank you for starting it
I agree, community works better than individuality when it comes down to the survival of our species

cheers,
Toddy

You'll survive with your freezers full very BC

 

[Toddy]

Hmmmm, nope, nothing in there I can eat
But I know how to acquire meat for those that can, and I know others do too.

It was an example Rik........how much food is available, not we need freezers to survive

How long will your stockpiles last then ? How paranoid will you get as they run low ? or will you decide to be more widely able to acquire wild food instead ?

cheers,
M

 

[dogwood]

Hmmmm, nope, nothing in there I can eat
But I know how to acquire meat for those that can, and I know others do too.

Toddy,

Like you, I'm a vegetarian. Have been for decades -- but also one who hunts (and gives the meat to friends).

Be that as it may, to survive in a true wilderness (non-agricultural) setting for any reasonable duration, you will have to return to consuming animal protein in some form or another.

You simply can't get the protein you require otherwise. This fact can't be avoided. Just as there are no atheists in foxholes, there are no vegetarians surviving in the wilds.

So the best bet is for you and I to try to avoid crashing our airplanes in the Brooks Range

 

[firecrest]

Oh really...

 

[firecrest]

This fella is doing ok with no meat
http://msnbcmedia1.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/060219/060219_CinGorilla_vmed.widec.jpg

 

[Matt.S]

I've stated here that IMHO living off the land in the UK is impossible, you would ultimately starve to death, this thread seems to back up that view, perhaps I won't get slagged off in future for daring to suggest bushcraft skills are not always enough.

Impossible or illegal?

 

[trewornan]

Just as there are no atheists in foxholes

I don't mind too much but just FYI that's actually a pretty unpleasant thing to say.

a) It's very disrespectful to all the non-believers who've died defending your right to practice whatever religion you choose without interference.

b) The implication that non-believers are really just hypocrites who, when under stress will suddenly have a change of heart is unjustified and arrogant.

I mention this because I've found people using this phrase who haven't really considered the implications they're making and how someone who doesn't share their beliefs will perceive them.

 

[rik_uk3]

I don't mind too much but just FYI that's actually a pretty unpleasant thing to say.

a) It's very disrespectful to all the non-believers who've died defending your right to practice whatever religion you choose without interference.

b) The implication that non-believers are really just hypocrites who, when under stress will suddenly have a change of heart is unjustified and arrogant.

I mention this because I've found people using this phrase who haven't really considered the implications they're making and how someone who doesn't share their beliefs will perceive them.

Lighten up mate