why do axes have hickory handles?

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mr dazzler

Native
Aug 28, 2004
1,722
83
uk
My gunnels are of oiled and waxed ash and regularly (now about twice yearly) maintained.
And I expect your very scrupolous to put the boat up side down ventilated and not let itget filled with dead leaves and such :) Ash is so versatile and durable for its reslience/springines/toughness etc but its a shame it wont do for outdoor constructional work. and be more durable in that respect
 

John Fenna

Lifetime Member & Maker
Oct 7, 2006
23,137
2,876
66
Pembrokeshire
I had a robin build a nest in the bow of one of my canoes!
Unfortunately I did not see it until it fell out as I was readying the canoe to go on top of my van...no eggs though, thank goodness.
Scupulous about keeping leaves out? nah!
 

Earlyturtle

Forager
Nov 5, 2007
114
0
Bristol, England
My grandad had a duck do the same thing in his dinghy once. Can't remember if there were eggs involved. I recently went to a fancy dress party as Sylvanus, the Roman God of woods (theme was Gods and Goddesses). Made myself a wand out of Ash wood en-route, lovely wood for whittling.
 

oetzi

Settler
Apr 25, 2005
813
2
64
below Frankenstein castle
It should be remembered, modern-day economics left aside, that ash was used for any kind of handle for centuries here in europe.
And the most important ingredient in any long-lasting handle is the qualification of the craftsmen who select, prepare and hang the handle, whether ist from Hickory or ash.
I would always prefer a better crafted handle made from ash over the too often (overpriced) crap turned out by GB.
 

littleknife

Member
Jun 7, 2007
13
0
Arlington, Virginia, USA
Hickories (Carya) are not native to Europe. They were introduced in the last few hundred years, but I am not aware of European hickory being used as commercial timber.
Hickories are quite a common in the Central and Southern USA, West from the Rockies, and they are native to the South-Eastern part of Canada too.

Traditionally, hickory was used for bows, lances, war clubs, later on for wagon hubs, axles, skis, hockey and lacrosse sticks, golf clubs and baseball bats, and of course for striking tool handles. Many of those appplications are now taken over by the cheaper ash wood, which is also somewhat lighter.

The American ash species are considered somewhat weaker than hickory for striking tool handle applications:

http://mdc.mo.gov/documents/forest/woods/ash.pdf

As for the European ash, according to

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_ash

"Because of its high flexibility, shock-resistance and resistance to splitting Ash wood is the traditional material for bows, tool handles, especially for hammers and axes, tennis rackets and snooker cues, although American hickory, from trees of the genus Carya arguably performs even better for these purposes."

Several true hickory species have higher shock resistance than any ash.
However, hickory wood is often sold as a mixture of several species, because the timber looks very similar. Sometimes even the pecan hickory group is mixed in, which is bad, since the pecans are inferior to the true hickories.

That, and also the way the wood is dried and/or stored, can lead to suboptimal mechanical properties in the handles made of such wood.

German axe-makers still use ash for axe handles: I have seen Ox-Head/Iltis and Helko Hunter axes offered with ash handles, especially for the lighter and shorter axes.

I think, if straight grained and vertical, both hickory and ash wood are good for axe handles.
You need to swing an axe all day long for a long time to feel any difference. None of us is a traditional logger, so for camp purposes, and especially for hatchets, I think even birch (see Roselli/Kellam and the Russian axes) and oak handles would be OK.

As for durability defined as decay resistance, neither ash, nor hickory are durable, but this should not be an issue with axe handles which are properly cared for. Hickory might be a little bit more sensitive to rapid or extreme changes in humidity than ash, but if the wood is properly sealed and the tool is not left in the damp or near the heater, you don't have to worry.

A popular myth derived from the time when old growth forests were abundant is that the darker heartwood of the hickories is inferior in strength compared to the paler sapwood.

http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/usda/amwood/241hicko.pdf

"Over the years a prejudice has developed against the heartwood of hickory. Red hickory (heartwood) is often placed in a lower grade than white hickory (sapwood) simply because of its color. Tests by the Forest Products Laboratory have shown conclusively that red, white, and mixed red-and-white hickory have the same strength characteristics, regardless of color. The negative attitude toward red hickory developed during the days of virgin hickory stands. Under virgin-stand conditions the heartwood was often less dense and not as strong as the sapwood. In the second-growth stands of today this density difference does not exist, and specifications and utilization practices should be adjusted to take this fact into account."

On the other hand, pecan hickories exhibit greater contrast in color between the sapwood and heartwood, so some of the problems reported with mixed-color or dark color hickory handles might mean that they were made of species with a weaker wood to begin with.
 

ToneWood

Tenderfoot
Feb 22, 2012
78
0
Wessex
Roy Underhill on the Woodwright's Shop, an American PBS TV show available as free streaming video on-line, explains that Europe used to have hickory but "unlike the Americans" we "put our mountains in the wrong way" :D. i.e. in American the hickory was able to adapt to climate changes by moving north-south or vice versa (as the Rockies run N-S) but in Europe north-south movement was blocked by the East-West arrangement of mountains in Europe, causing the hickory to die out.

Two reasons why hickory is used for axe handles one its good, two its cheap, but why is it so much cheaper than European ash which is every bit as good for tool handles?

I think mainly its down to fuel prices, the weak dollar makes it very very cheap at the moment but the mass use of hickory predates that. 20 years ago most eauropean tool handles were made of ash. I used to sell it. The grade is called sports ash. And to be perfect it should have between 6 and 10 growth rings per inch, slower grown is more brittle and faster grown doesn't have as much spring.

North American hickory maple etc is heavily marketed by these folk http://www.ahec.org/ there is no equivalent marketing organisation for British grown timber. Modern timber processing is very fuel dependant, particularly transportation and kiln drying so low US fuel tax = cheap timber add in good marketing and its easy to see why your axe comes with a hickory handle not ash.

We are now just beginning to see the market paying a premium for local timber at the top of the scale so I have a friend specialising in cedar cladding timber specified by architects but it will be a long time I suspect before people will buy an axe with a British ash handle in preference to one with a US hickory one.

When I was marketing timber from a National Trust forest I thought I was onto a winner when I found that there was a National Trust kitchen made and sold under licence out of oak...we had lots. The manufacturer was very keen to use our oak but only if we could sell it to him cheaper than the US oak he was currently using. He would not pay 1 penny premium for a product from a National Trust NNR with FSC certification I wonder if his customers knew where their NT kitchen grew?
V. interesting post. I didn't realize that ash is as strong as hickory but it doesn't surprise met. I was led to believe (probably by American Roy Underill's aforementioned hickory video on the PBS.org website) that hickory was somehow better (the Americans are v. patriotic, so perhaps need to take than into account :)). However what you say makes sense to me. I've been making quite a lot of ash tool handles recently, including for a large (14lb) sledge hammer and a lovely 4lb Kent-style Elwood axe. It has lovely "springy" feel in use and yet is surprising giving when you drive a dry oak wedge into it, to tighten the head, hickory feels rather dead to me by comparison but perhaps that is me comparing new wood with old, rather than ash v. hickory.

That America can make and ship them to us cheaper surprises me not at all. As you say, fuel is cheaper there and the market is large (USA, Canada, Mexico). Also their postage charges are much cheaper both make the UK & Europe uncompetitive compared to other countries. Their labour(/"labor") laws are far less stringent/onerous depending on your perspective (although the pay is usually more generous) and stuff in general is far cheaper and less taxed. "Stack 'em high and sell 'em cheap" seems to be the philosophy - it worked v. well for them, at least until they opened up China.... N. America also has far more land on which to grow/harvest trees. Several states, including Kentucky & Tennessee seem to be largely forest - then there is Canada, land of the lumberjack, Washington State, Oregon & some eastern states too. They are good at automating stuff for their mass market to (what is the US population these days 270m-300m?). The climate is generally a lot dryer too, when it comes to drying the wood.

Credit where credit is due, I would say that in my (limited) experience, the commercially available American hickory handles that I have seen/used in the past are excellent, practically perfect in terms of grain and finish. However, I believe the grain on hickory is generally/required to be straight, forward-facing and quite dense for the strength properties normally associated with it. Ash, on the other hand, is stronger with a lower growth ring density (as described by Robin above) and apparently less dependent on orientation (as mentioned by Robin in his axe rehandling article on the Bodger's forum).
 

santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
16,909
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Is the wood varnished or oiled?
I was thinking more for fencing, posts that sort of thing where its constantly exposed to elements, I tried it once or twice, it was rotting in less than a year I did test posts to see :eek: But even 10 years is no time for hardwood when a normal post and rail softwood fence last's 5 to 7 years, longer if tanilised. oak will last much longer, I heard teak posts can last 90 year's. My grandfather set out a rose trellis in about 1925 with teak posts and it was still good in 1988 when he died.

I know it's not as readily available over there but if you can get it, use litard (fatwood) for your fence posts. They last on average 100-150 years. Even here they're too rare for the line posts but when I was a kid they were common for corner posts. That role seems to have been replaced now-a-days by creosoted railrod ties though.
 
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santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
16,909
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...

...Several true hickory species have higher shock resistance than any ash.
However, hickory wood is often sold as a mixture of several species, because the timber looks very similar. Sometimes even the pecan hickory group is mixed in, which is bad, since the pecans are inferior to the true hickories...

...None of us is a traditional logger...Hickory might be a little bit more sensitive to rapid or extreme changes in humidity than ash, but if the wood is properly sealed and the tool is not left in the damp or near the heater, you don't have to worry....

-On your first point: Actually Pecan IS a species of Hickory. All Pecans are Hickories but not all Hickories are Pecans. That's why it's legal to market pecan as hickory (whether for purposes of lumber, handle material, or smoking wood) But illegal to market other Hickory as Pecan. It's rarely done though, because Pecan is the superior wood for smoking and a better lumber cosmetically while maintaining the same strength qualities of other Hickories. Thus Pecan demands a premium price.

P.S. Regarding your comments on White Hickory vs red Hickory: I don't really know if one is superior to the other or not. However they are NOT different parts of the same tree as you indicated; they are separate species.

-On your second point: I have been a commercial logger and so have others on the forum. When I was doing that, we NEVER treated our axe handles or stoerd the in any protective way at all. They were left on the back of the truck exposed to the weather (sun, rain, snow, heat, and cold) They were simply tools. Their normal lifespan was usually around 5-7 years for the handles and 2 or more generations for the heads.
 
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santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
16,909
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...That America can make and ship them to us cheaper surprises me not at all. As you say, fuel is cheaper there and the market is large (USA, Canada, Mexico). Also their postage charges are much cheaper both make the UK & Europe uncompetitive compared to other countries...

All true enough. But I doubt that "postage" really matters as the larger manufacturers and exporters to the UK (or elsewhere in Europe) probably don't use the postal service for bulk shipments. More likely they're sent by cargo carriers. Perhaps the postal service (or a courrier service such as FedEx or UPS) is used to send one or two handles to an individual buyer, but not a mass order to a tool maker.
 

HillBill

Bushcrafter through and through
Oct 1, 2008
8,141
88
W. Yorkshire
Ash if sealed properly will last a long time. The reason it can rot quickly if left unsealed in wet environments is because the bit between the growth rings ( cant remember its name) is large and porous, in comparison to other hardwoods. Water can get in here and rot it from inside aswell. Seal it well and this isnt an issue.

You should use Yew for fencing if possible as it'll outlast an iron post.
 

Silverclaws

Forager
Jul 23, 2009
249
1
Plymouth, Devon
In the past at least as far back as the Iron age period 600 years BC 100 AD ash was the wood of choice for any tool requiring a wooden handle, I have a replica scabbard for a Romano British longsword made out of ash strips glued together as per the original as it was found in the 1950's in the Stanwick fortifications, that is ash wood that has been in the ground 2000 years. The original is English ash, my replica is American ash purely due to availability at the time of making. But something that helps wood last is oiling, my scabbard is oiled with Danish oil as the scabbard was to be functional for modern day use, surely in the past wood was oiled to preserve it and make it resilient to external conditions, didn't the Scandinavians oil their working wood, I seem to remember something said about that on recovered wooden objects from sunk vessels ?

And so I have had felling axes in the past with the light ash handles, they lasted and were actually used for the purpose and yes abused, left out in the rain, not oiled when they became dry, the usual that working tools often receive and so all my wooden handled tools are ash as I know the material does the job asked of it and I would prefer a native material because it was good enough in the past so why not now and if one is searching for that ultimate for whatever reason, then we have modern materials that do the job, but they have moved away from what can be made with a draw knife and shaving bench by anyone with an eye and moderate skill.
 

demographic

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Apr 15, 2005
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Oregon hatchets have ash handles. No connection to the seller its just that I was in the local chainsaw shop (which incidentally isn't the one I'm linking to anyway as their website doesn't list them) and I noticed their very affordable hatchets.
 

robin wood

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Oct 29, 2007
3,054
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derbyshire
www.robin-wood.co.uk
Oregon hatchets have ash handles. No connection to the seller its just that I was in the local chainsaw shop (which incidentally isn't the one I'm linking to anyway as their website doesn't list them) and I noticed their very affordable hatchets.

I love that head shape makes a great carver and all round axe, be interesting to know what the grind is like on these if it comes anywhere near sharp. I am skint at the moment and have far too many axes otherwise I would pick on up.
 

demographic

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Apr 15, 2005
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I love that head shape makes a great carver and all round axe, be interesting to know what the grind is like on these if it comes anywhere near sharp. I am skint at the moment and have far too many axes otherwise I would pick on up.

To be honest I only gave them a glance, saw they looked nice from about four foot away and as there was a stand full of chainsaw products in the way never went any closer. Certainly not close enough to see the grind.
 

demographic

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Apr 15, 2005
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712
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Just looked in my Stihl catalogue and they are selling what looks like exactly the same German made, ash handled axes as Oregon do, more money than Oregon (Stihl seem to do a bit of a stranglehold on their dealers pricing and won't let them discount much if at all) and they are orange.

Anyway, the Stihl site is fairly crap so I'm just putting up a link to Google Images of their axes instead, presumably anyone can work out where and what price from there.
If it were me I'd most likely get one of the Oregon ones and enjoy the feeling of having a bit of cash in my pocket but some people really do like that orange so...
 

santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
16,909
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To be honest, fibergalss is showing up more and more these days on axes. I've never actually used one with a fiberglass handle but I have led one in the store and can say it just didn't feel right to me.

That said, I have used many hammers with fiberglass handles (they've been around a few decades now) and surprisingly those really did feel good.
 

demographic

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Apr 15, 2005
4,694
712
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To be honest, fibergalss is showing up more and more these days on axes. I've never actually used one with a fiberglass handle but I have led one in the store and can say it just didn't feel right to me.

That said, I have used many hammers with fiberglass handles (they've been around a few decades now) and surprisingly those really did feel good.

I just don't like fibreglass handles, its slightly colder to the touch and a lot of the fibreglass handles have a dodgy rubber grip on them but overall I just don't like it Can't even find a very good reason why not.
 

ozzy1977

Full Member
Jan 10, 2006
8,558
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Henley
Golf clubs originaly had shafts made of Ash but this changed in the 1850's to hickory as it was better, golf wasnt played in america much then. Hickory was only replaced by metal in the 1920's.
 

Goatboy

Full Member
Jan 31, 2005
14,956
17
Scotland
I'm with the "ash lasts" guys on this one, used to use a combination of ash and willow poles for cleaved fences. Very satisfying cleaving down poles, and as the grain has been split rather than ripped with a saw it is so much more rot resistant. Only thing with the willow though was that in damp ground the poles often took root and grew. Strong living fence though. And it looks lovely once done.
I believe in the warm south you guys use chestnut a fair bit for this type of fence.
Cheers,
GB.
 

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