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Geoffknight
Guest
i have been wondering for a while now why the vast majority of axes have hickory handles, could someone enlighten me??
cheers
cheers
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I guess it might be because its a light but very strong wood which is also easily carved, but hey I am not any type of authority on this I'm just hazarding a guess, you would be best to ask someone like British Red!
Hickory is a relatively straight grained wood, that is easy to shape with the proper tools. But mainly.. it's so darn strong! It's a favourite amongst native Canadians for bowyering. And when I can find some, I love to use it for wedges. Second year growth American Hickory seems to be the all time favourite, but any healthy hickory is a strong wood.
Ah well that wasn't a bad guess after all, I'll give myself a pat on the back!
I have obviously learned something whilst I've been a member here!
Eric_Methven
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Hickory is used for it's strength, and ability to withstand massive shocks without splitting or cracking. It is grown specifically in the USA and Canada as a crop for tool handles among other things. The reason axes, hammers, pick helves and sledge hammers in this country have hickory handles, is because it's cheaper to import a readily available product from across the pond, than grow our own timber for a relatively small hand tool industry. Traditionally, we would use ash for tool handles, and that is indeed the case for many hand tools made to be historically authentic. I have hickory on my Gransfors carving axe, but on my special edition Gransfors viking axe, I have an ash handle. That's how it came to me because that's what would have been used in the period it depicts.
Eric
Eric
Very interesting concept on the ash. I didn't know hickory was non-existant in those parts of Europe (or Europe period??)
I've used ash for handles long before I ever had a hickory handle, and honestly? I haven't found a difference in strength.. in fact I slightly prefer the ash, by it's colour and ease of shaping, even with primitive tools. My first "survival hunting bow" was made of white Canadian ash. Thus far I haven't found any hickory growing locally, I believe it's too far north for it to grow here. Only hard woods we have are poplar, birch, maple, beech, and the occasional hophornbeam, or ash. No hickory as of yet. If I find some, axe and tomahawk handles will be soon in production
I have a gransfors carving axe too (I'm sure many others do to, but you're the first person I've seen on the forum to mention having one). Lovely axe isn't it? I really love the colour of the hickory handle. Am I right in thinking the handle of this axe is rougher than the handle of other gransfors axes, for grip purposes?
robin wood
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Two reasons why hickory is used for axe handles one its good, two its cheap, but why is it so much cheaper than European ash which is every bit as good for tool handles?
I think mainly its down to fuel prices, the weak dollar makes it very very cheap at the moment but the mass use uf hickory predates that. 20 years ago most eauropean tool handles were made of ash. I used to sell it. The grade is called sports ash. And to be perfect it should have between 6 and 10 growth rings per inch, slower grown is more brittle and faster grown doesn't have as much spring.
North American hickory maple etc is heavily marketed by these folk http://www.ahec.org/ there is no equivalent marketing organisation for British grown timber. Modern timber processing is very fuel dependant, particularly transportation and kiln drying so low US fuel tax = cheap timber add in good marketing and its easy to see why your axe comes with a hickory handle not ash.
We are now just beginning to see the market paying a premium for local timber at the top of the scale so I have a freind specialising in cedar cladding timber specified by architects but it will be a long time I suspect before people will buy an axe with a British ash handle in preference to one with a US hickory one.
When I was marketing timber from a National Trust forest I thought I was onto a winner when I found that there was a National Trust kitchen made and sold under licence out of oak...we had lots. The manufacturer was very keen to use our oak but only if we could sell it to him cheaper than the US oak he was currently using. He would not pay 1 penny premium for a product from a National Trust NNR with FSC certification I wonder if his customers knew where their NT kitchen grew?
I think mainly its down to fuel prices, the weak dollar makes it very very cheap at the moment but the mass use uf hickory predates that. 20 years ago most eauropean tool handles were made of ash. I used to sell it. The grade is called sports ash. And to be perfect it should have between 6 and 10 growth rings per inch, slower grown is more brittle and faster grown doesn't have as much spring.
North American hickory maple etc is heavily marketed by these folk http://www.ahec.org/ there is no equivalent marketing organisation for British grown timber. Modern timber processing is very fuel dependant, particularly transportation and kiln drying so low US fuel tax = cheap timber add in good marketing and its easy to see why your axe comes with a hickory handle not ash.
We are now just beginning to see the market paying a premium for local timber at the top of the scale so I have a freind specialising in cedar cladding timber specified by architects but it will be a long time I suspect before people will buy an axe with a British ash handle in preference to one with a US hickory one.
When I was marketing timber from a National Trust forest I thought I was onto a winner when I found that there was a National Trust kitchen made and sold under licence out of oak...we had lots. The manufacturer was very keen to use our oak but only if we could sell it to him cheaper than the US oak he was currently using. He would not pay 1 penny premium for a product from a National Trust NNR with FSC certification I wonder if his customers knew where their NT kitchen grew?
That was an eye-opener, Robin. Strange that he's able to do it, do even the NT know where the NT kitchen grows?
robin wood
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
No one knew because 15 years ago no one asked. Organic farming and local food was just beging to become mainstream but no one asked where their timber came from. Even today do you think most folk having a posh kitchen installed ask or care where the wood grew?
I love ash its one of my favourite timbers. Its a shame it isnt more durable for outdoor use but horses for courses
I always make handle's from cleft air dried ash, probably with more or less the same 6-10 ring spec Robin mentioned. I put the rings across but some prefer them up and down? I love the way you get a work polished finish over time. Oak tends to splinter and roughen. I have used the same ash handle several times on different mell head's, which I make up from various lumps of beech/ash/oak etc fire wood scrap.
I am blessed, I just got a roselli axe not sure if its hickory or birch handle (most likely hickory as theres a strong grain pattern), but top marks, they used a superb piece of wood where the grain and handle shape match perfectly. I cannet use it just yet (Christmas pressie from my dear wife ) Its very nicely made though, it reminds me of russian and slavic axes with the cut out beard and extremme swell end to the handle, but then arent finland and hungary connected inguisticaly?
I always make handle's from cleft air dried ash, probably with more or less the same 6-10 ring spec Robin mentioned. I put the rings across but some prefer them up and down? I love the way you get a work polished finish over time. Oak tends to splinter and roughen. I have used the same ash handle several times on different mell head's, which I make up from various lumps of beech/ash/oak etc fire wood scrap.
I am blessed, I just got a roselli axe
not sure if its hickory or birch handle (most likely hickory as theres a strong grain pattern), but top marks, they used a superb piece of wood where the grain and handle shape match perfectly. I cannet use it just yet (Christmas pressie from my dear wife ) Its very nicely made though, it reminds me of russian and slavic axes with the cut out beard and extremme swell end to the handle, but then arent finland and hungary connected inguisticaly?I love ash its one of my favourite timbers. Its a shame it isnt more durable for outdoor use but horses for courses
Well I find ash very durable...When I broke the handle on my favourite brick trowel, I made a new handle for it out of ash. It has been on there for a couple of years now and it gets loads of abuse, tapping down concrete blocks, soaked in water, chucked around, etc. I have never treated it with anything and it is just fine. Why do you not find the wood durable..?
Ash rots easily if it gets wet?
The ash gunnels on my canoe are still doing well after 10 years! And it lives outdoors - in West Wales when not on the river - no sign of rot.......
The ash gunnels on my canoe are still doing well after 10 years! And it lives outdoors - in West Wales when not on the river - no sign of rot.......
rancid badger
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Hey, I made our lass a claes prop from ash donkies (10)years ago and it's only just given up the ghost. No oil or anything else on it either-actually that reminds me, I need another one!:11doh:
R.B.
Is the wood varnished or oiled?
I was thinking more for fencing, posts that sort of thing where its constantly exposed to elements, I tried it once or twice, it was rotting in less than a year I did test posts to see
But even 10 years is no time for hardwood when a normal post and rail softwood fence last's 5 to 7 years, longer if tanilised. oak will last much longer, I heard teak posts can last 90 year's. My grandfather set out a rose trellis in about 1925 with teak posts and it was still good in 1988 when he died.
Ash is a lovely wood. It's probably my favourite wood. It's not much used for structural part on larger boats because it would rot quickly, particularly in poorly ventilated, humid & warm areas of a boat. That's why a post in the ground will quickly rot, it can't stand constant humidity coupled with poor or no ventilation.
But for a canoe's gunnels, one of the best wood in my opinion because of its tough springy fibres, particularly if you can get split wood rather than sawn. You can make bows, tool handles, paddles both single and double, such as native "storm" paddles, in fact you can tiller them.. as if you made a bow to take advantage of its springyness. I have made frames for canoes with it without problems. It does not mind getting wet as long as it is kept well ventilated and can dry out.
But for a canoe's gunnels, one of the best wood in my opinion because of its tough springy fibres, particularly if you can get split wood rather than sawn. You can make bows, tool handles, paddles both single and double, such as native "storm" paddles, in fact you can tiller them.. as if you made a bow to take advantage of its springyness. I have made frames for canoes with it without problems. It does not mind getting wet as long as it is kept well ventilated and can dry out.
Come to think of it I've only ever broke one ash handle and that was on a stanley claw hammer from the factory, it wouldnt stand up to the daily grind of pallet bashing. I have broken (or worn to the point of being unsafe and unfit) several hickory ones though including my snadvik axe but it does get used a lot. It will be interesting to see how the roselli goes, its the most expensive axe I've ever had but I think it will do the busines
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