Which Woodlore / Survival Course???

[Ed]

Some schools, like Wilderness Living, http://www.wildernessliving.co.uk/, do require you to do a 'foundation course' before doing some of the more advanced courses

I personally have found that most schools are happy if you have done an equivelant course at another school, or expierenced in bushcraft, and will let you do their advanced courses without their pre-requisite. Just give the instructors a ring.... you'll get a few questions... have you lit a fire by friction?, have you slept out in a debris shelter?.... that sort of thing. It is more to make sure that the student is not out of their depth on an advanced course.


Ed

 

[tomtom]

i strongly recomend WildWise i have done two courses with them.. both very good nice atmospeher and a wealth of knolage :biggthump

 

[masongary44]

I recently did the Woodlander course from Woodsmoke, the course lasts a little over 6 days and was a truly excellent experience. They limit the numkber of people on the course to ensure there are enough instructors to go around.

Over the weekend more people turned up to lend a hand which put the student to instructor ratio at almost 2 to 1.

The people on the course ranged from ex military to school teacher, male female, yound and older....

The course had a good mixture of lectures, example/demo's and practice that made everything straight forward. Throughout the course "projects" were given out that were examined on the last day to contribute towards you're course grade.

Everyone was encouraged to build shelters, and more importantly to use them. Fire-lighting was a must and by the end of the week everyone on the course had made fire by friction.

The land used is near Lake Windermere and I think they have a total of around 7000 acres of deciduous and coniferous woodland to play in....

I am know there are a great many schools out there, but I found that this one gave me everything I could have wanted it to...

I am just looking forward to the next one..... Probably the Nomad...

 

[qweeg500]

If you want to go in at an intermediate level of course then you and the course leader would have at least 2 things to consider:

1, Is Bushcraft for you? Students who have done Fundamental courses will have already made their minds up.

2, Are your skills and knowledge up to the standard required? The instructor is likely to want all his/her students to have a certain level of understanding so that everyone (including you) can learn together. There is also a safety aspect here, as on the more advanced courses the instructors may not be directly supervising you all the time.

In my opinion both approaches are key. Read from a book - make mistakes - learn the hard way - get on a course and see where you went wrong. I think the more adversity you face the better you get - especially with regards to bowdrilling.

I'd suggest you choose a couple of reputable schools and contact them for a chat.

Good Luck

 

[qweeg500]

Forgot to say,

I'm a big Woodsmoke fan. I've done the Woodlander, Abo' (same course as Sargey) and the Axe Workshop. I enjoyed all of them. There were a few moments on the Abo' when I'd have killed for a funsize Mars bar but that's part of the experience. :AR15firin
I've also heard Woodlore are very good.

Matt

 

[leon-1]

Tedders, you may wish to give Gary a bell (Bearclaw), there are a few schools near you as you are in the London area, but Gary is in Essex and runs courses down Kent/Sussex way as well as other places.

 

[chris chris]

Tedders

The course you went on, did they not provide you with a syllabus or content itinery when you enquired or when you checked it out on the advertisement?

The reason I ask is, if they did and you already knew the subject content - why did you go on it ? - Why the hell were you spending your money on something you already knew ? and what did you expect for a something like 100 quid for a weekend ? - an instructor all to yourself and for you to decide the subject content to be covered there and then. :?:

Sounds like you reqiure one on one training with someone - if your prepared to pay for it that is. If your not prepared to pay for it, then make friends in here but remember, when you go to a pro organisation they have all the right safety measures in place, including insurance etc.

I've been on many courses here in the UK and enjoyed every single one,they were all differant and all fulfilled my wants and needs. On all of theses courses I've seen students who really should be somewhere else, with negative attitudes that has only affected the rest of the course content, why? Because then the course instructors have to start spending time and energy on "bringing people in" working on motivation and personal problems, problems that the student has brought with them to the course, and if the instructors are ex -military then you going to get a differant approach to this than a non military guy.

Some courses I went on the instructors wrapped the students in cotton wool, becoming there next new best friend and more or less did the skills for them, the lazy people enjoyed this, but on other courses the instructors took a stand back and let you get on with it approach, to let you try and test yourself, this sounds to me maybe more of what you expereinced.

As for not being good with authority, this will be a stumbling block that I believe YOU should deal with, because no matter what type of learning process or environment you go into, there will be rules to follow and someone will be telling you what to do - if you can't face that then make a friend on here who is qiute happy to give up his or her weekends to show you.

Chris

 

[Stuart]

I'm not touting for any of the schools here, but...

The trouble with trying to teach yourself is that:
1) trying to learn how to tye a knot from a book can be a nightmare!;
2) the instructor may be able to see where you are going wrong and point out how to correct things you're struggling with;
3) trying to learn fungi from a book, for example, can be downright dangerous (hence the reason I don't like teaching people how to ID them and I'm joining a group to find out how to ID them properly from someone who really know's what their talking about!);
4) the school will generally have examples of good AND bad kit and thus save you money/pain;
5) you are able to draw on a much broader base of knowledge as there will be others there who will have knowledge and experience.

Self-learning IS great and has a huge sense of achievement attached to it, but never be too proud to admit that others can help you (Been there, done, it, made a prat of myself). Even if you do have to pay them.

And ask yourself this, is £150 for example,for a course really all that much when compared to the lifetime of knowledge and experience you will be building for yourself?

Jakunan has hit the nail on the head with regards to his explanation of the benifits of going to one of the schools.

some things just cant be learnt effectively from a book I tried to make cordage from the diagrams in books for years and never succeeded but under the tuition of the woodsmoke school I cracked it, the same with fire by friction.

if you cannot afford to go to a school then come to one of the meetups with the members here and they will take you though the stuff they know and the more people you meet the more you skills will build over time, but if you have the cash the schools are the best way to learn a great deal of knowleadge very quickly.

The reason I ask is, if they did and you already knew the subject content - why did you go on it ? - Why the hell were you spending your money on something you already knew ? and what did you expect for a something like 100 quid for a weekend ? - an instructor all to yourself and for you to decide the subject content to be covered there and then.

I dont know if you realise this Chris but your coming across as very confrontational, Have you never paid for anything and been disapointed that it was not what you expected??? :?:

 

[Gary]

Confrontational? I'd say Chris is simply saying it how it is Stuart - or at least giving his opinion - which is as valued as everybody elses opinion on here. Straight talkers are often (mistakenly) seen in this light.

And personally speaking I have seen many of the things of which he speaks so I know they're true but just because someone doesnt like to hear the truth doesnt make it wrong to say it.

'Evil only truimphs when good men do nothing!'

 

[Stuart]

whist I agree with much of what Chris is saying i do not see it as a constructive or helpful answer to the original question

here is tedders original question:

having read a few posts I see a few of you have done courses and some of you work in the schools, my question is this:

What school would you recommend (not the one you own)?

I have done one course and didn't enjoy it, or learn much more than I already knew. I won't say the name of the school for fear of upsetting people. It was run in a military regime and the guy had a few personality issues. There was one instructor, too many students. We were told to build a shelter, then left on your own with no practical advice. Then afterwards he went round finding fault - but not constructively, just cynically, as he did with fires etc. So afetr that I've been put off until I saw the Woodsmoke and Woodlores sites,they look a little less military (i've always struggled with authority). What do you guys think. I need a non-basic course for a week, where shall i go??

Tedders has been on a course which he did not like, he has see online some intresting schools but after his previous experiance he is a little hesitent to book a course, so he asks the advice of the people here as to whether the woodsmoke or woodlore courses are good

Chris's reply to this question is:

The course you went on, did they not provide you with a syllabus or content itinery when you enquired or when you checked it out on the advertisement?

The reason I ask is, if they did and you already knew the subject content - why did you go on it ? - Why the hell were you spending your money on something you already knew ? and what did you expect for a something like 100 quid for a weekend ? - an instructor all to yourself and for you to decide the subject content to be covered there and then.

Sounds like you reqiure one on one training with someone - if your prepared to pay for it that is. If your not prepared to pay for it, then make friends in here but remember, when you go to a pro organisation they have all the right safety measures in place, including insurance etc.

I've been on many courses here in the UK and enjoyed every single one,they were all differant and all fulfilled my wants and needs. On all of theses courses I've seen students who really should be somewhere else, with negative attitudes that has only affected the rest of the course content, why? Because then the course instructors have to start spending time and energy on "bringing people in" working on motivation and personal problems, problems that the student has brought with them to the course, and if the instructors are ex -military then you going to get a differant approach to this than a non military guy.

Some courses I went on the instructors wrapped the students in cotton wool, becoming there next new best friend and more or less did the skills for them, the lazy people enjoyed this, but on other courses the instructors took a stand back and let you get on with it approach, to let you try and test yourself, this sounds to me maybe more of what you expereinced.

As for not being good with authority, this will be a stumbling block that I believe YOU should deal with, because no matter what type of learning process or environment you go into, there will be rules to follow and someone will be telling you what to do - if you can't face that then make a friend on here who is qiute happy to give up his or her weekends to show you.

Chris

to me this comes across as saying "your an idiot for booking on a poor course did you not do any research?? did you not think the course might not be good as you were only paying 100 pound??" i also find the reply to be cynical, sarcastic and unconstructive

 

[chris chris]

Been to 7 differant schools in the UK alone, just saying it as it is.

I have often really symphasised for the schools because I have seen some really difficult demanding people on courses, throwing tantrums because they have not been able to turn the course into their own personal stage, I have witneessed some appalling behaviour but on each occasion all the instructors and schools handled it extremely well.

Before I book on a course I ask myself about the itinery, is it new? do I know it already? is it worth my while and my money? so if I do decide to book and go I'm not dissapointed if I expect too much.

Sometimes this is the problem - people expect too much, I believe you get what you pay for, but not only that, attending courses of this nature requires the student to work hard, focus, do what the instructor ask's you to do and at the end you will only get out what you put in.

Chris :biggthump

 

[Stuart]

Been to 7 differant schools in the UK alone, just saying it as it is.

I have often really symphasised for the schools because I have seen some really difficult demanding people on courses, throwing tantrums because they have not been able to turn the course into their own personal stage, I have witneessed some appalling behaviour but on each occasion all the instructors and schools handled it extremely well.

Before I book on a course I ask myself about the itinery, is it new? do I know it already? is it worth my while and my money? so if I do decide to book and go I'm not dissapointed if I expect too much.

Sometimes this is the problem - people expect too much, I believe you get what you pay for, but not only that, attending courses of this nature requires the student to work hard, focus, do what the instructor ask's you to do and at the end you will only get out what you put in.

Chris :biggthump

Thats fine and I agree whole heartedly with everything you have said in this post, there are some very very difficult students out there who can make even the best instructors lives difficult.

the problem I had with your previous post it that it intimated that because Tedders did not enjoy his course that he was this type of difficult student, there is no basis for this.

Tedders may well have been victim of a poor instuctor of which there is no argument that there are a few in this business.

if you had worded your previous post in the way that you have this one, with out implying that tedders had a problem because he was a bad student I would have done nothing but agree.

tedders came here to ask what our advice on which school to attend after he had difficulty with a militry style school who teaching style i did not enjoy (militry style instruction is not everyones cup of tea) companys like woodlore and woodsmoke offer a very different style of teachig which may suit him better.

you cannot assume that he is a difficult student because he did not enjoy militry style instruction under the tuition of what may have been a poor instuctor, you can offer advice on people you know to be good instructors

 

[Gary]

Well not to worry Tedders is sorted now I believe and it wont cost him a penny!.

Ve have vays of making him vurk!! :rolmao: :rolmao: :rolmao:

 

[Adi007]

I dont know if you realise this Chris but your coming across as very confrontational, Have you never paid for anything and been disapointed that it was not what you expected??? :?:

There used to be sayings that went:

"The customer is always right ..."
"There's no such thing as a bad student ..."

I for one think that they apply just as much now as ever.

Good point there Stuart. I've bought many things that didn't live up to my expectations. Usually because I was dazzled by sales pitch or took too many things on trust.

Many moons ago I made a post that was basically saying that if you are going to part with cash, make sure you know what you are getting for your money. Remember, as a customer it's your money and that vendors want it! Paying £10, £20, £50, £100, £500 or whatever on something means that you don't have that to spend elsewhere afterwards. So spend it wisely! If in doubt, keep hold of your cash and spend it later.

What I'm feeling here is that there are a lot of people who seem to think that paying for something that's not right is somehow just a fact of life ... well, I don't believe that, and UK trading laws don't see it that way either. Caveat Emptor is not how things work.

Everyone who buys anything should be aware of their rights and rights of redress should things not go as planned: http://www.dti.gov.uk/ccp/topics1/saleandsupply.htm

My advice would be as follows:

- Shop around.
- Read reviews - these are a great way to access the quality of what you are getting. The more reviews you can find the better. And write your own reviews afterwards - any person or company that stands in the way of a customer writing a review of a product or service is scared of something and that is a major danger sign!
- Ask for testimonials. And if you are a satisfied customer, consider writing one!
- Never, ever, book anything based on a website or leaflet alone. Always make contact with the company before parting with cash.
- Keep a record of what you've been promised.
- Get an itinery and terms and conditions. This is your contract with the company training you. This is what you SHOULD get in exchange for your cash. Make sure that this is suitable to your needs and current experience but also make sure that it's what you are looking for.
- If you are unhappy - complain. We don't do this enough in the UK.

I'm not saying that people are out to rip you off, far from it, but buying "skills" is very different from buying a product - a product you can see and handle before buying, a skill is hard to judge. A skill is hard to measure and how well that skill is transferred is harder to judge. However, usually speaking to the people concerned will give you an idea ... How are your questions answered? Were they polite? Were they clear in communicating (because if someone is awful on the phone or email, how are they in person?)? Did they answer your questions or dodge them?

I hope that this helps you Tedders and that your past bad experience hasn't put you off learning about and enjoying bushcraft!

:chill: :biggthump

 

[chris chris]

What I'm saying is:

Don't expect the same standards for a 100 quid course as you will get on a 250 quid course.

If the school provides you with a course itinery and you already know it, why go on it?

If you have a problem with authority, a military type course is not for you, even a non military course run by ex forces guys may not be for you because this may also re-surface your authority problem.

Through my experience on courses perhaps you require 'one on one' training if you can get it and suggested here maybe a good place to start.

I've been on a lot of differant courses, all good, i'm not going to start listing names and kissing backsides on here, there is enough of that already and if Tedders wants my list he can respond to my personal message from the other day.

Don't go through life blaming others for everything. It is totally unfair to say an instructor is bad if the only problem is you don't like the way they do things. How many people on here have actually sent Tedders a personal email asking to know who the school was?

I spent 22 years in the RAF and since out, spent 7 years as a mountain leader and expedition guide and my work commitments are booked up for the next 3 years. So Stuart, I'm a little bit too long in the tooth to be told what I can say or think, espiecially when I'm not being derogatory or abusive and when what I'm saying is the straight facts. If you call straight talking confrontational that's your opinion.

Tedders, himself admittingly, has a few personal issues that may not be good on a training course, so do these not also need to be dealt with, because in my opinion the customer is not allways right, but that's another issue for another day.

Like I said, " wrapped up in cotton wool "

That's my opinion, nothing more, nothing less, but something I'm entitled to just the same as you.

Coincidently, how many of you guys who have the " don't like authority " or the " military ways " approach, walk around on the street or the woods wearing the combat uniforms of the fighting forces from this and other countries around the world - DPM.?

Chris :biggthump

 

[Tony]

Ok, everyone has put forward some good points but this is getting off track, the question was;

I need a non-basic course for a week, where shall i go??

The rest of it is between the student and the teacher. A lot of good advice has gone up about this so it's pretty well covered.

Anything else added can it please be in answer to this question.

Cheers

 

[chris chris]

I believe all the following will be a good list to start with, there are others but they don't spring to mind right now.

Woodsmoke School
Woodcraft School
Woodlore School
Survival School
Bearclaw School
Bison School
Natural Pathways School

Go for it and good luck

Chris
:wave:

 

[ScottC]

I'd add Tamarack To that list. I've done a couple of weekend courses with them that were both under a £100 each and they were very very good.

 

[Tony]

This thread is now locked as it seemed so hard to keep to the question. The remainder of the posts have been moved to a new thread http://www.bushcraftuk.net/community/showthread.php?t=3010

I trust that Tedders managed to get a appropriate answer to his question.