W1 - anyone using it ?

[Xunil]

I've been revisiting an old friend recently by laminating W1 with wrought iron sides in a simple three layer arrangement and I'd forgotten what a superb steel W1 is.

In this day and age of fad and fashion regarding the various so-called super steels it was refreshing to go back to a more traditional steel and rediscover just how incredibly good at edge holding it is and how easy it is to sharpen.

It got me thinking of some of the other simple steels that I don't spend enough time on; the 10x series in particular.

I will be making some production knives from it very soon rather than rough test pieces and perhaps this is tinged with just a little nostalgia but what an eye opener.

This might be where I get burned at the stake for being a heretic by opting out of O1/RWL34...

 

[decorum]

It's always good to have a play with old friends

This might be where I get burned at the stake for being a heretic by opting out of O1/RWL34...

As I prefer both flat and convex to a scandi grind, I guess I'll probably be the fuel .

 

[Xunil]

...

As I prefer both flat and convex to a scandi grind, I guess I'll probably be the fuel .

You mean there are two of us ?

Shhhhhh....


... don't tell a soul ...

 

[dorkingbushcraft]

ive forged a couple of whittlers from it
and ill soon be having a go at my first laminate with WI and W1 !!!

 

[Everything Mac]

I make the majority of my blades out of W1 - it's a damn good steel.

Andy

 

[Richie'66]

I make the majority of my blades out of W1 - it's a damn good steel.

Andy

I second that , W1 is my favourite steel if I'm honest.

 

[nic.]

I second that , W1 is my favourite steel if I'm honest.

I'll third that, although I tend to call it file steel.

A few laminates I have played with.

A carver:

And a really fancy one, but still made from scrap:

Nic

 

[Dave Budd]

so apart from the assumption that files are somthing like W1, where are you all getting the stuff? Coz the suppliers I use don't carry it (or W2)

 

[Xunil]

Dave: mine is old stock - I have a lot of steel from when I used to buy in bulk.

W1, A2, D2, 1095, 5160, 52100, 1080, 1070, L6 (the real stuff, not 15N20), 12C27, ATS34, 154CM, CPM154CM, M2, S30V, etc, etc, etc...

Don't think I've any W2 lying around (will check this weekend) but I have plenty of the above.

Although files and other recycled materials can and do make good blades I prefer to know what it is I am dealing with - a lot of files are made from one of the air hardening alloys these days (simplifies production enormously) and some brands used to be stamped O1. Basically you never really know what you're using unless you know the exact point of origin and often a manufacturer will shift over to a new material and the last folks to find out are those who are using it in recycled form.

I know, I'm boring, but I prefer predictable and repeatable results.

That said I have loads of old Nicholson files and rasps that I still use for blades - the rasps are recycled once they no longer cut cleanly (I use them for making longbows and Ipe is hard on them) and it's nice to see them take on new life and purpose.

I'm a contradiction of hypocrisies

European Tool Steels Ltd (Sheffield) and Cooks used to stock W1 and others - don't know if they still do though.

Group buy ?

 

[decorum]

Dave, while we're on the subject of steel, can you remember which steel you used for this knife?

It's going well, btw ~ It's only needed a few strops and one sharpen since August .


:sad6:

 

[ex-member Raikey]

my first 3 knives were made from files,

i went to 01 as i had depleted my garage of old files and found it easier to work,

or could it be that i did,nt anneal the files properly ?...or maybe i hand worked them from 8-9mm thick?!?!?! hahaha

eitherway, i have now got a batch of old nicholson files and looking forward to trying again,...with a Morris clone,..

 

[decorum]

You mean there are two of us ?

:yikes:

 

[Tengu]

Laminated?

<Falls off perch in excitement>

 

[Xunil]

Laminated?

<Falls off perch in excitement>

I mostly do high layer count Damascus and other nonsense so this, for me, is a real departure going back to simpler stuff.

W1 core, wrought iron sides. Wicked edge holding and pretty tough due to the iron.

I didn't think there's be any interest in it - everyone seems so wrapped up in the Scandi ground O1 or RWL34 thing

I'll finish a couple out in a week or so and 'show and tell'

 

[Tengu]

Oh, Im a firm believer in laminations.

like, at least a million of them....

 

[Everything Mac]

52100 is what a lot of ball bearing casings are made from isn't it?

I forged a knife from one last summer and initially I hated the thing. Until I started using it. OMG, the egde retention is insane!

Andy

 

[Xunil]

Yeah, people get far too hung up on the latest so-called super steels without understanding the full picture.

Example, most stainless steels have very poor resistance to sideways stress or impact. In fact, some of the best stainless steels on the market today are less than half as tough than many of the carbon steels, but that never forms part of a marketing campaign for obvious reasons...

There have also been a lot of cutting test articles and the findings tend to confirm what anyone who has been doing this for a while already knows - with one or two exceptions cutting performance is pretty close across the board between most steels.

Steel doesn't have to be better to sell stuff made from it - it just has to be perceived to be better and that perception turns into personal bias and the next thing you know knife X built from steel Y is the latest, greatest, biggest, meanest etc, etc, blah, blah

It's all about the spin and marketing nonsense.

Toughness varies more than cutting ability in the case of most steels and the great leveller is when tests are done where the blade is only used for slicing (the primary use for almost all knives).

These days folks sometimes wrinkle their noses at 12C27, the 10x series and other 'simpler' or less in vogue steels. That baffles me completely, but it does demonstrate how bias/perception colours everything - if enough people say steel X is great, sooner or later it becomes a 'fact' lodged so deeply in the minds of most that you can never contradict them and attempts to discuss are seen as contentious.

If D2, A2, W1, S30V or RWL34 was available from Cromwells for the same price as O1 and could be heat treated in the garden using simple equipment everyone would be using it.

Funny old world...

I'll get my coat

 

[Everything Mac]

^^ couldn't agree more.

I'm not going to say that 01 is a bad steel - I have a couple of knives made from it and I can't fault them yet. But as you say there does seem to be a number of popular steels. Stainless will always be the weaker steel, but that is the price you pay for the stainless property.

Slicing? don't you mean battoning?

What sort of size stock do you have then Xunil? And where did you get it?

Andy

 

[Xunil]

...

What sort of size stock do you have then Xunil? And where did you get it?

Andy

I have most of the steels I listed in various sizes ranging from shim (around 1mm or so by 1 and 1/4 inch) through to 1/4 inch by 1 and 1/2 in flat bar, and some of them I have in round bar up from 1/2 inch to about 1 and 1/2 inch

I also have a few sheets in various diameters.

I bought some of it from various places in the UK that used to stock and sell it (most are long gone now ) and the rest came over from America, Sweden and Holland. Lots of good steel suppliers in Holland, and there used to be regular close-out sales in Sheffield where engineering firms and similar would sell off every asset in bankruptcy. Their loss was my gain. I have a load of Crucible steels at the moment which is the last of the UK stock from when their UK branch went to the wall.

Sandvik used to let you order 1/2 a ton at a time and so I did, often.

12C27 is my favourite stainless overall for a number of reasons:

1. it's super consistent - every time you harden and temper you get 'peas in a pod' exact results again and again with no variation.
2. it's as tough as old boots and the only good stainless that can withstand bending without cracking (within reason)
3. unlike some of the 'super steels' (S30V for example) you can take 12C27 to a full, true mirror polish. S30V requires five times the work for a lower finish because its most salient quality is wear resistance which basically means it largely ignores abrasives
4. it's easy to work with either hand or power tools
5. edge holding is very, very good and I don't mind if it's not quite up there with S30V because the biggest advantage (for your customer) is that they can actually sharpen 12C27 where many folks seriously struggle with S30V and RWL

I could go on, but I'll spare you all (sighs of relief all round )

I used to be friendly with a production manager at a wire rope factory and they used various grades of the 10x series which they rolled down to whatever diameter they wanted from bar stock. Guess who got their offcuts, which could be up to several hundred weight at a time

Most trips I make to Norway, Sweden or Holland (I lived and worked over there for a couple of years) see me bringing a loaded car back with me on the ferry, and I used to travel a lot to America and Canada and I would use my baggage allowance to bring steel, handle material and other junk back with me. It builds up pretty quickly when you're over there five or six times most months

And no, I'm not selling it (other than some of the Crucible stuff). I have plans...

 

[Everything Mac]

not even a wee piece of 52100?