W1 - anyone using it ?

[Chris the Cat]

Xunil, very interesting reading! What thinks you of Silver steel, or the EN's ?
( Love that Dave Budd folder decorum! )
My best.
Chris.

 

[Xunil]

not even a wee piece of 52100?

Nay, nay and thrice nay.

Yet again I say nay !



I trade some now and then with one or two other makers when they have something I need but, other than that...

The thing is, if you can get it (and you can afford it) it's always worth buying an excess because prices rarely ever come down. I'm using stuff I bought for coppers that would cost fortunes today, or that you just can't get (W1 for example)

O1 is, at the moment, in a semi-transient state regarding quality. Previously when it was made in the UK or Europe/America quality wasn't an issue. Most of it is made in China now and sometimes you get some that won't harden. I mean, at all. Correct me if I'm wrong but that means it doesn't qualify as O1 to begin with...

I ran into this a few weeks ago with some bits from Cromwell and after the first surprise (read 'shock') I did some testing. I managed to get to Rockwell 53 C straight after quenching with NO tempering, so basically I couldn't get the steel to harden to blade hardness. I even tried quenching it in brine and when that didn't work, warm water. Still wouldn't go past 53C which, by definition, means the chemical mix is all wrong. The same kit and process on my old stock O1 produced the expected results.

More and more I am finding that every time I play with O1 these days anomalies I have never seen before are cropping up. Once my old stock is gone I won't be buying any more unless quality control is improved or it is manufactured elsewhere, or I can find some old stock to replace mine. I know of at least one full-time maker who has experienced very similar problems with recently purchased O1, so it isn't just me being a gimp in the workshop...

A lot of people might not be in a position to fully test their output and may operate on assumption that the material is consistently going to deliver a predictable result. There are nasty surprises in store...

I like O1 a lot, but only when it does what it is supposed to

 

[Xunil]

Xunil, very interesting reading! What thinks you of Silver steel, or the EN's ?
( Love that Dave Budd folder decorum! )
My best.
Chris.

I have a lot of time for Silver steel - it is nice to work with, can be processed with simple equipment and produces excellent blade qualities if you get your heat treating right.

The EN's cause a lot of aggravation (to me anyway) because so many of them are listed as direct counterparts to other alloys when, in fact, they aren't.

Anything that has 1/2 a % of this or 1% of that over and above the counterpart product will react very differently under heat treating. I had what turned into a very public debate on this subject some time ago where one chap was basically saying "what's an extra 1 percent of silicon between friends ?" (paraphrased). Interestingly people who may or may not know what difference it makes were throwing their weight behind a fellow forum member who, they were utterly convinced, had to be absolutely on the money. I gave up quickly and stopped trying to explain it.

You're asking a big question and this may not be the right place for that depth of discussion but in very basic terms a tenth of one percent of an alloying element is classed as trace while anything over that is classed as influential to the properties of the steel.

Check out the specification for Cold Steel's discontinued CarbonV steel. It is a very slightly (and I mean very slightly) modified version of a very common and familiar steel. The main secret was the combination of optimal heat treating coupled with supporting edge geometry.

Get either of those steps wrong and the steel will crack, chip or break.

Heat treating is the single greatest influencing factor of knifemaking, closely followed by edge geometry. Those two factors mean far more than which steel you use.

I can cope with some of the EN's under certain circumstances but I am always very leary of 'similar'. Similar is not same.

Fussy aren't I ?

 

[Mojoracinguk]

Xunil.....I brought two plane irons (sheffield crucible steel) from a car boot with the intention of making a folder and some other misc. pieces.....but you are happy to sell you stock of crucible steel....is it that nasty???

Mojo

 

[Xunil]

Xunil.....I brought two plane irons (sheffield crucible steel) from a car boot with the intention of making a folder and some other misc. pieces.....but you are happy to sell you stock of crucible steel....is it that nasty???

Mojo

LMAO

No, not at all.

Of the stuff I have it's the least likely to be used because, when I bought it, I already had loads of it anyway

I have S30V and 154CM coming out of my ears. 154CM is a long time favourite of mine and sits just behind 12C27 in my 'top steels' list. I have a pretty serious excess and that is the only reason I have previously offered some of it for sale.

I traded a load of it with another maker who needed some for stuff I wanted, but I still have a significant pile of Crucible steel. Even if I sold everything on the list I'd have about three times or so that amount left to play with for myself.

Whoever gets this lot when I eventually peg it had better bring a truck and some willing help for the day

 

[nic.]

Really interesting stuff- It looks like you can't be certain of all bought steels now.
I have so far been lucky with my files- but then I am still raiding an ancient box of giant old files, I would be surprised if any were post 1970. When they run out and I have to source some more it may get more difficult. I didn't realise that you were actually using W1 I tend to read it as file steel because that's what I use. Conversely I have never described anything I have made from a file as W1- to me recycling is a positive thing.

Be good to see what you come up with- had a look at some of your work and it is most impressive.

 

[Silverhill]

Based upon the desire of quite a few of you guys on here (myself included) is it worth arranging some kind of bulk purchase of a popular steel if a supplier can be found?

 

[Chris the Cat]

Thanks for that Xunil, most enlightening !
My best.
Chris.

 

[Xunil]

A group buy might be great, but W1 is more often than not available only in round bar, when it is available at all.

The main issue with a group buy for steel is that some want flat bar, some want it 4mm, or 5mm, or ... while others will willingly take on round bar to reforge to whatever dimensions/shape they want to end up with.

Normally it works best in the event of a minimum order of X thickness by Y width divided by who wants how many off. I know what I mean

 

[Everything Mac]

I would be tempted by a group by but for the amount that I forge it isn't really worth it. - I already have a supply of steel which will last me the summer.

Andy

 

[Mojoracinguk]

I'd like to group buy of steel just so i could hear the postmans relief as he empties his sack through my letter box.....Oh hang on a minute.......



Mojo (a very naughty sniggery boy)

 

[Silverhill]

I'd like to group buy of steel just so i could hear the postmans relief as he empties his sack through my letter box.....Oh hang on a minute.......

Seriously though, based upon the lack of interest, and the small amounts people are likely to use, its probably a bad idea. I'm not even a bladesmith so I'd probably never use it! Lol.