very basic winter camping?
- Thread starter jonnie drake
- Start date
Jonnie my advice whatever you do have a back up plan! if you decide to rough it, don't take the risk of not coming back!
take a rucksack with you (you don't have to open it) with mobile phone, spare clothing, , survival bag, even a tent!...hot drinks (in a flask) sweets/Kendal mint cake whatever you fancy that is waaaay high in sugar!
John Fenna wrote an excelent story (in SWAT magazine years ago), of a trip he took on a winter hike/bivi, that almost ended in disaster!
he was using pretty much the same gear we use today (if a little dated) 2x buffalo sleeping bags and a "Hyroram" bivi-bag (similar but not as good as Gore-tex), had all the gear but still got very, very cold!
(edit: reading the question again...oooops!)
I did a trip up sca fell, stayed there 2 nights, with:
SASS tarp (out dated now, like the British army one but tougher material).
Hydroram bivibag (cheap gore-tex copy)
Snugpack sleeping bag rated 3-4 season-ish,
and a roll mat.
wearing in the sleeping bag:
Buffalo shirt, US army trousers with thermals, hat and woolly socks!
take a rucksack with you (you don't have to open it) with mobile phone, spare clothing, , survival bag, even a tent!...hot drinks (in a flask) sweets/Kendal mint cake whatever you fancy that is waaaay high in sugar!
John Fenna wrote an excelent story (in SWAT magazine years ago), of a trip he took on a winter hike/bivi, that almost ended in disaster!
he was using pretty much the same gear we use today (if a little dated) 2x buffalo sleeping bags and a "Hyroram" bivi-bag (similar but not as good as Gore-tex), had all the gear but still got very, very cold!
(edit: reading the question again...oooops!)
I did a trip up sca fell, stayed there 2 nights, with:
SASS tarp (out dated now, like the British army one but tougher material).
Hydroram bivibag (cheap gore-tex copy)
Snugpack sleeping bag rated 3-4 season-ish,
and a roll mat.
wearing in the sleeping bag:
Buffalo shirt, US army trousers with thermals, hat and woolly socks!
Last edited:
I test all my kit in the garden as much as I can before relying on it.
I also get the kids to test theirs in the garden too.
Once we are sure it will do what we want, we then go test it on the roundabout up the road, then in the forest.
If we are all happy with that, then we go use it somewhere adventurous.
I was actually testing a hammock setup and my littlest another tarp last night in the garden.
It was -4 degrees, but dry with no wind.
He found a rope needs to be set slightly lower and went to bed around 2 am. Mine was Ok
Mine had some adjustments last night from things I found wrong the night before.
Next test will be on a cold rainy/snowy windy night - unless I get the urge to sleep out again tonight.
I once spent a night dug in under a conifer in a huge pile of pine needles, with a wall of snow built up to the bottom branches.
I was lost in a blizzard in South Wales, had no comms and no kit for making a fire, all I had was what I was wearing - jeans, shirt, snorkel jacket which was all soaked and frozen.
Spent most of the night doing aerobics and feeling really hot and fighting the temptation to get out and roll on the snow to cool off.
I never ever want to get myself in that much of a mess again.
In the morning, I discovered I was less than 300 yards from a milking parlour with a huge steaming dung heap and a hay rick.
I also get the kids to test theirs in the garden too.
Once we are sure it will do what we want, we then go test it on the roundabout up the road, then in the forest.
If we are all happy with that, then we go use it somewhere adventurous.
I was actually testing a hammock setup and my littlest another tarp last night in the garden.
It was -4 degrees, but dry with no wind.
He found a rope needs to be set slightly lower and went to bed around 2 am. Mine was Ok
Mine had some adjustments last night from things I found wrong the night before.
Next test will be on a cold rainy/snowy windy night - unless I get the urge to sleep out again tonight.
I once spent a night dug in under a conifer in a huge pile of pine needles, with a wall of snow built up to the bottom branches.
I was lost in a blizzard in South Wales, had no comms and no kit for making a fire, all I had was what I was wearing - jeans, shirt, snorkel jacket which was all soaked and frozen.
Spent most of the night doing aerobics and feeling really hot and fighting the temptation to get out and roll on the snow to cool off.
I never ever want to get myself in that much of a mess again.
In the morning, I discovered I was less than 300 yards from a milking parlour with a huge steaming dung heap and a hay rick.
just re-read the post. The guy has been out in winter a few times in better conditions. I wonder if he has more experience of wild camping in better weather. If so he has some idea. I'm also assuming he has done day walks in winter and has some experience of the daytime winter conditions. I am sure I have seen his posts on here before. Anyway I am guessing he has some experience of the outdoors. That will help him in some ways as he probably knows when to bug out. If he feels he is ready for a winter camp then I do recommend taking a friend with similar or better experience. I don't think it is wrong to say you can't do it but it is right to assist him and answer his questions. I do think it also wise to temper those most minimalist camp descriptions for someone who has not even done one bad winter night. Although I am sure he is bright enough to figure out that pine bows for a camp mat and vegetation in a bivvy bag for insulation is not the best of ways to get through his first real winter night. I guess both Rik and the other are both right to some extent. At the end of the day if JD does it it is most important that he does it safe. In a well known area where he has camped before and he knows the way off the hill and back to his car well so he can do it by torch. He does take a little spare capacity. He eats before going to sleep to provide energy for warmth. Oh and he wears his trousers down by his ankles too. At least I think that is good advice but it could just be that guy's personal preferences!!
please tell me that's about insulation in the sleeping bag...I've not heard that one!
Similar principle to mittens - if you insulate your legs (or fingers) from each other they can't share warmth
Fair few good suggestions of testing the kit in your back garden and having a back up plan.
i usually test any kit i have questions about in my parents back garden
then i start taking it to my permission which is an hours walk or ten min drive so if it all goes horribly wrong i can call for a lift back to warm and dry,
last year i used a tent sleeping bag fleece blankets reuseable hand warmers as hot water bottles and lots of brews to keep warm
this year wit the confidence i have gotten from these experiences i plan on s-using fire and tarp to add most of the warmth i will need
fingers crossed it will all go well but i have the plan b and plan c as back up if it doesnt
oh and plan d but that is for serious doodoo
i usually test any kit i have questions about in my parents back garden
then i start taking it to my permission which is an hours walk or ten min drive so if it all goes horribly wrong i can call for a lift back to warm and dry,
last year i used a tent sleeping bag fleece blankets reuseable hand warmers as hot water bottles and lots of brews to keep warm
this year wit the confidence i have gotten from these experiences i plan on s-using fire and tarp to add most of the warmth i will need
fingers crossed it will all go well but i have the plan b and plan c as back up if it doesnt
oh and plan d but that is for serious doodoo
Right, i am not saying that you go out and sleep in an issue arctic sleeping bag and an issue bivvie bag with spreuce bows under neath for a ground matt, im answering the op question of what is the minimum of kit that you have slept out in, perhaps you should pm the op and ask for his real intentions tjat are hidden between the lines, or do you have some kind of mental telepathy to understand what is not written there, that you for calling me stupid great response there chap, Have fun eh!
Whilst i may have had my trousers down i was not envolved in any kind of activity that would produce warmth,
as I was warm enough,
Whilst i may have had my trousers down i was not envolved in any kind of activity that would produce warmth,
as I was warm enough,
Last edited:
Mid Feb outside the CIC hut: Caravan Odin sleeping bag (20 years old and very bulky and now replaced my Alpkit down bag - equal rating but less weight), silk liner and outdoor designs Alpine bivi and an original 5 season Karrimat.
Approx -15c before wind chill
Now - Alpkit bag, silk liner and Alpkit mat - wee eric, Alpine bivi. Plus bottle of hot water inside the bag. Mat inside the bivi bag and I take a space blanket - put that down first, then the rest on top. It helps because:
a) layer you form the damp ground
b) gives some thermal properties if you roll of the mat etc.
That siad I've done this sort of set up got 20 years so know what ods/doesn't work for me. Try in the garden/locally/ with fully laden tent as bag up until you know what works.
Also avoid alcohol - having a few beers reduced your temperature safe zone by about 5c - even if you don't drink to the point of been drunk
Bear in mind with modern bags ---- the bag is designed to be a very good insulator. We the minimum clothing inside it - base layer only or even less plus sock if you have dicky feet like (even been know to wear them to bed recently). If you wear more clothes you will not be much warmer as the whilst the clothing does retain some body heat it also traps moisture which lowers the effectiveness of the sleeping system. If you are having to wear extra layers in a bag you've have the wrong bag.
Approx -15c before wind chill
Now - Alpkit bag, silk liner and Alpkit mat - wee eric, Alpine bivi. Plus bottle of hot water inside the bag. Mat inside the bivi bag and I take a space blanket - put that down first, then the rest on top. It helps because:
a) layer you form the damp ground
b) gives some thermal properties if you roll of the mat etc.
That siad I've done this sort of set up got 20 years so know what ods/doesn't work for me. Try in the garden/locally/ with fully laden tent as bag up until you know what works.
Also avoid alcohol - having a few beers reduced your temperature safe zone by about 5c - even if you don't drink to the point of been drunk
Bear in mind with modern bags ---- the bag is designed to be a very good insulator. We the minimum clothing inside it - base layer only or even less plus sock if you have dicky feet like (even been know to wear them to bed recently). If you wear more clothes you will not be much warmer as the whilst the clothing does retain some body heat it also traps moisture which lowers the effectiveness of the sleeping system. If you are having to wear extra layers in a bag you've have the wrong bag.
Last edited:
My experience of camping out in the UK in winter conditions is that generally stuff gets wet. Unlike more Northerly or higher elevations where you get Dry Cold the UK it's usually cold and wet with it. UK snowpack and Say Norwegian snowpack are different things entirely..
One thing you also get in the UK in winter is short days and long nights. So more often than not you're cooking tea in the dark etc.
I think a good shelter is important such as a tent. If it's a half decent model and capable of UK winter weather then it'll be reasonably cozy and you can cook in it with care. It gets you out of the wind if you pitch it with some care and in my experience is a bit drier than a tarp / basha in UK winter conditions.
Snow caves are fun but you need a good depth of snow to build one and you need to take along a shovel and it takes a wee while to excavate one.
I've spent a good few winters nights out in the UK all over the place, winter camping is fine you just need to ensure your preperation is good and the sleeping bag and other kit is adequate for what you have planned as the consequences of it not being adequate are a bit more serious.
I guess if you're also thinking of say heading into the hills in winter you need to consider getting appropriate winter travels skills sorted out such as use of an ice axe + crampons self arresting techniques etc.
Have fun + stay safe....
One thing you also get in the UK in winter is short days and long nights. So more often than not you're cooking tea in the dark etc.
I think a good shelter is important such as a tent. If it's a half decent model and capable of UK winter weather then it'll be reasonably cozy and you can cook in it with care. It gets you out of the wind if you pitch it with some care and in my experience is a bit drier than a tarp / basha in UK winter conditions.
Snow caves are fun but you need a good depth of snow to build one and you need to take along a shovel and it takes a wee while to excavate one.
I've spent a good few winters nights out in the UK all over the place, winter camping is fine you just need to ensure your preperation is good and the sleeping bag and other kit is adequate for what you have planned as the consequences of it not being adequate are a bit more serious.
I guess if you're also thinking of say heading into the hills in winter you need to consider getting appropriate winter travels skills sorted out such as use of an ice axe + crampons self arresting techniques etc.
Have fun + stay safe....
The original question was what "can you get away with?"
Last November I participated in a survival exercise on Bodmin Moor - for me it was compulsory, not voluntary! We were only allowed two layers of clothing, a bivvy bag (no sleeping bag), no change of clothes (like spare socks etc), no food, water and some basic items like a hobo stove made of a survival tin, candle wax and cardboard. We were out for 5 days and found out afterwards that the directing staff had serious concerns about the weather - which was atrocious - horizontal rain and freezing nights, plus Bodmin Moor has to be the wettest place in the country - our feet never dried.
Anyway - it was survival - not living! We were on the move at night (avoiding the hunters who were after us) and we kept warm during the day by leaning against trees, tenting the bivis with our heads poking out the top, and lighting the hobos on the ground between our legs. We were in groups of four and were being monitored by the directing staff the whole time - nevertheless, with training you can get away with surprisingly little - although I wouldn't advocate it - it was bloody awful!
Get a detailed weather forecast for low lying areas and for high country - ignore it and expect the worst! Snow isn't normally a problem in this country - wet weather combined with cold is the real killer. At this time of year I leave the hammock and go to ground. If there's two or more of us I'll take a tent, but if I'm on my own I'll take a large tarp and rig it with three sides on the ground, pyramid stylee. A four season bag, bivvy bag and at least two sets of warm gear (one set kept in a dry bag) - put the warm kit on before you think you'll need it - for example as soon as you stop exerting yourself (hiking, setting up camp etc) get your warm layers on - even if you're still warm. Take more food and water than normal and chocolate as an emergency ration. A mobile phone with a spare battery - or something like a Powermonkey charger - and perhaps most important - tell someone where your going and when you expect to be back.
It's a fact that your pack is going to be heavier at this time of year but it's worth it to live (as opposed to survive) outside. At this time of year, I am always challenging myself to be as comfortable as possible - the sacrifice is carrying the extra weight!
Last November I participated in a survival exercise on Bodmin Moor - for me it was compulsory, not voluntary! We were only allowed two layers of clothing, a bivvy bag (no sleeping bag), no change of clothes (like spare socks etc), no food, water and some basic items like a hobo stove made of a survival tin, candle wax and cardboard. We were out for 5 days and found out afterwards that the directing staff had serious concerns about the weather - which was atrocious - horizontal rain and freezing nights, plus Bodmin Moor has to be the wettest place in the country - our feet never dried.
Anyway - it was survival - not living! We were on the move at night (avoiding the hunters who were after us) and we kept warm during the day by leaning against trees, tenting the bivis with our heads poking out the top, and lighting the hobos on the ground between our legs. We were in groups of four and were being monitored by the directing staff the whole time - nevertheless, with training you can get away with surprisingly little - although I wouldn't advocate it - it was bloody awful!
Get a detailed weather forecast for low lying areas and for high country - ignore it and expect the worst! Snow isn't normally a problem in this country - wet weather combined with cold is the real killer. At this time of year I leave the hammock and go to ground. If there's two or more of us I'll take a tent, but if I'm on my own I'll take a large tarp and rig it with three sides on the ground, pyramid stylee. A four season bag, bivvy bag and at least two sets of warm gear (one set kept in a dry bag) - put the warm kit on before you think you'll need it - for example as soon as you stop exerting yourself (hiking, setting up camp etc) get your warm layers on - even if you're still warm. Take more food and water than normal and chocolate as an emergency ration. A mobile phone with a spare battery - or something like a Powermonkey charger - and perhaps most important - tell someone where your going and when you expect to be back.
It's a fact that your pack is going to be heavier at this time of year but it's worth it to live (as opposed to survive) outside. At this time of year, I am always challenging myself to be as comfortable as possible - the sacrifice is carrying the extra weight!
Trousers round the ankles?
a) It's done like that so you can quickly pull them up if you get bumped, rather than hop about on one leg and making a target of yourself.
b) It's also comfier, helps prevents waistband irritation (may be sweaty from daywork) and allows fresh air around the nads.
I got away with minimum kit last winter, but wouldn't recommend it. Any idiot can be uncomfortable (or worse) as they say. Having a dog as a water bottle helped.
Liam
Similar threads
