That's the one I had in mind. Thank for the link. I hadn't looked at it in a while.
Traditional fabrics
- Thread starter cockney greg
- Start date
That's the one I had in mind. Thank for the link. I hadn't looked at it in a while.
Good link. The site gives sources at the end which would be worth a look. Interestingly, they do not claim that the material remains warm when wet, or that it doesn't lose insulation, but rather that it feels more comfortable against the skin, for reasons others already mentioned in the thread.
The site also pointed out the heat generation issue when absorbing water vapour. I didn't see if they used the same source as the link provided further up.
Otherwise, I think the site is spot on. The Canadian Army released a study along the same lines, stating that with respect to insulation, any difference between the fabrics themselves was insignificant when compared to the thickness, knit, fitting, and dryness of the clothing.
And I think that's the bottom line; insulation is a function of loft, not the fibers themselves. For non fill based insulation, thickness and knit control. Fill based insulation depends on the lifting ability of the material used. When the material absorbs water, it loses insulation because water is much more thermally conductive. Some fill based insulation has the added disadvantage of losing loft as well when wet. Some materials, like wool, can feel more comfortable when wet because they keep the water away from the skin. That however doesn't seem to be related to the decrease of insulation of the material.
Thanks for the link. I think it provides a good overview of at least part of the subject. I hope people do not disregard it just because it is done by a company which produces wool clothing.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
theres lots of stuff around if you google 'heat of sorption', more here: http://www.geoffanderson.com/kat16-Fabrics/side318-Merino-wool.html
its something that interests me since I sweat like a fat kid in a sweet shop at the slightest provocation.... and I climb/cave/cave dive/mountain bike. All of which basically means I put gear through the mill and the after effects have been known to clear a room.
my anecdotal experience is that synthetics wick well, but stink. If Im working stupidly hard I go synthetic, if Im working low/medium, or an anywhere near a fire, i go natural (merino). If i want to get served first at the bar, i go synthetic
When it comes to the diving, its type D thinsulate (tolerates compression and flooding)......at least until someone produces a viable aerogel garment.
I'd like to understand the science in detail behind wool. It seems theres something to it, but i do wonder and the real world implications for my particular environment.
its something that interests me since I sweat like a fat kid in a sweet shop at the slightest provocation.... and I climb/cave/cave dive/mountain bike. All of which basically means I put gear through the mill and the after effects have been known to clear a room.
my anecdotal experience is that synthetics wick well, but stink. If Im working stupidly hard I go synthetic, if Im working low/medium, or an anywhere near a fire, i go natural (merino). If i want to get served first at the bar, i go synthetic
When it comes to the diving, its type D thinsulate (tolerates compression and flooding)......at least until someone produces a viable aerogel garment.
I'd like to understand the science in detail behind wool. It seems theres something to it, but i do wonder and the real world implications for my particular environment.
Last edited:
I came across this..yes, it is very simplified explanation but it does give good idea of the basics ...http://www.ehow.co.uk/info_12011622_wool-good-insulator.html
I have said it before, but it bears saying again. Wool is not just 'wool'. It comes in many varieties, it can be spun and plyed in many ways and it can be woven in many more.
My first swimsuit was wool. It neither shrunk or itched or was heavy or waterlogged. It was tailored and it fitted. It was from the same company that made the suits for the ladies of the British Olympic swimming team.
My first coat was wool. Fine soft handle merino, pale cream and warm and breathable.
My outdoor playing in jacket was red barathea. It was waterproof, windproof and warm.
Nowadays folks seem to think all wool is knitted or blankets
The difference is the price. It costs £79 a metre for good wool. That means that a good cloak is nearly £400 of wool before I buy the lining. A decent jacket made from it starts at £500.
Look up Estate Tweeds for a basic level pricing for outdoor kit.
Plastics are disposable, wool is generational
M
My first swimsuit was wool. It neither shrunk or itched or was heavy or waterlogged. It was tailored and it fitted. It was from the same company that made the suits for the ladies of the British Olympic swimming team.
My first coat was wool. Fine soft handle merino, pale cream and warm and breathable.
My outdoor playing in jacket was red barathea. It was waterproof, windproof and warm.
Nowadays folks seem to think all wool is knitted or blankets
The difference is the price. It costs £79 a metre for good wool. That means that a good cloak is nearly £400 of wool before I buy the lining. A decent jacket made from it starts at £500.
Look up Estate Tweeds for a basic level pricing for outdoor kit.
Plastics are disposable, wool is generational
M
I have said it before, but it bears saying again. Wool is not just 'wool'. It comes in many varieties, it can be spun and plyed in many ways and it can be woven in many more.
My first swimsuit was wool. It neither shrunk or itched or was heavy or waterlogged. It was tailored and it fitted. It was from the same company that made the suits for the ladies of the British Olympic swimming team.
My first coat was wool. Fine soft handle merino, pale cream and warm and breathable.
My outdoor playing in jacket was red barathea. It was waterproof, windproof and warm.
Nowadays folks seem to think all wool is knitted or blankets
The difference is the price. It costs £79 a metre for good wool. That means that a good cloak is nearly £400 of wool before I buy the lining. A decent jacket made from it starts at £500.
Look up Estate Tweeds for a basic level pricing for outdoor kit.
Plastics are disposable, wool is generational
M
My Auntie Anne made me a pair of swimming trunks when I was about 7. I wore them for the first and only time on our annual holiday to sunny Jaywick Sands. As I ran into the sea (Baywatch stylee) I started to slow down. I thought something's not right here. Sure enough the waistband snaked out behind me as they absorbed water and morphed into a pair that would fit the wrestler Andre the giant. I made my way out of the water carefully, the crotch dangling between my knees and the waistband doubled over around my chest. Cheers Toddy, it took a very long time to forget the experience! I'm 58 and I'll probably need therapy now.
Yeah, wrong wool
Classic example 
I feel really sorry for your seven year old self though; traumatic times indeed.
atb,
M
Classic example
I feel really sorry for your seven year old self though; traumatic times indeed.
atb,
M
My all-time favourite item of outdoor clothing is a Day's Ranger wool jacket made in the 1940's in the US of A, in the classic four patch pocket style. It's made of 100% wool which has been woven as a whipcord, and it just does up the front with press studs. This has been in my posession
for the past twenty years or so, and I searched long and hard for it, having worn a borrowed one for a day or two on a visit to the states. I'd dearly love to find the trousers to match, but haven't so far had a sniff.
The whipcord is as hard as nails, as witnessed by the fact that it did service for years on a park ranger, and I've worn it constantly since I got it;
although extremely tough it's also extremely comfortable to wear, and is almost waterproof, totally windproof and with a good mid layer is adequate down to about 0 degrees C. The label inside states that the jacket has been treated to the "Cravenette" process, which as far as I can ascertain means the fibres have been treated with a silicone-based compound before weaving, so much the same as they now make Epic cotton.
This is a prime example of a natural fabric that, for the Northern European climate, works just as well if not better than anything synthetic......
It's a fabric version of climate control..............And then on top of all that, the hand of the material the smell and feel of it never fail to give me a feeling of warmth and wellbeing and a lovely familiarity that I know will outlast me and hopefully have yet another life when the time comes that I have no further use for it.
Which laboratory or factory makes anything like this?
for the past twenty years or so, and I searched long and hard for it, having worn a borrowed one for a day or two on a visit to the states. I'd dearly love to find the trousers to match, but haven't so far had a sniff.
The whipcord is as hard as nails, as witnessed by the fact that it did service for years on a park ranger, and I've worn it constantly since I got it;
although extremely tough it's also extremely comfortable to wear, and is almost waterproof, totally windproof and with a good mid layer is adequate down to about 0 degrees C. The label inside states that the jacket has been treated to the "Cravenette" process, which as far as I can ascertain means the fibres have been treated with a silicone-based compound before weaving, so much the same as they now make Epic cotton.
This is a prime example of a natural fabric that, for the Northern European climate, works just as well if not better than anything synthetic......
It's a fabric version of climate control..............And then on top of all that, the hand of the material the smell and feel of it never fail to give me a feeling of warmth and wellbeing and a lovely familiarity that I know will outlast me and hopefully have yet another life when the time comes that I have no further use for it.
Which laboratory or factory makes anything like this?
Aye, structure and weave matter a lot.
I have some cycling leg-warmers, in a knit type of fabric. Like very heavyweight tights. They take ages to get soaked, seem to trap heat next to my skin even in the wind. They are acrylic.
I have other acrylic cycling clothes that get soaked quickly, are freezing once soaked and just really aren't a good idea in adverse weather.
Some of the pics I took today in one of the rare bright parts of the day; there are more and better ones, but the uploader is not playing fair!
As stated above this is my all-time favourite item of clothing, in all but the very worst of this year's wet weather I've worn this with a polycotton
shirt under and my Bergans Morgedal over it and stayed dry and warm and very comfortable.
Thanks a lot for the linky, Ian, that's a really useful site which I've bookmarked and will peruse on a regular basis; I nearly had a heart attack when I searched it just now as they have a pair in the right size but they're black...............a near miss!
Thanks again
Thanks again
That jacket looks the business Mac. have you ever come across that silicone treatment before apart from Epic? It's a new one on me.
No, never seen it or heard of it since on any other garment - but the "Cravenette" treatment is described in brief on Wikipedia so must have been in use to quite a considerable extent as far back as 50 or 60 years..........Nothing new under the sun, eh?
Similar threads
