To ventile or not to ventile - advice needed
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Thats a shame I used to like Lovejoy.
Have you got any of your articles on Ventile?? would really like to read them. Just thinking of getting a westwind Ventile.
I was in the episode where Lovejoy came to Wales to stop "Celtic" artifacts being stolen and exported ....
Utter tosh of course
but the pay was good!The "stones" I hauled across the beach were polystyrene (or they would have weighed tons!) and one had "Elvis Lives!" in Latin etched into it
As to reviews - Google "Ventile reviews and quite a few turn up!
The Gunmart one is of the Westwinds Antarctica....
I did some for BcUK - but they seem to have been lost from the reviews section.....
Well, thanks alot! :->
Last time I checked their website I was unable to find the Ventile smock. Maybe it was just out of stock
or I overlooked it. As I've always wanted to give Ventile a try I just had to order one this time. There goes my money!
Delivery was swift - ordered on Friday, arrived Tuesday. First impression: A solid piece of kit, very well made. Could use some
extra features like Napoleon breast pockets. Also the two top pockets are a little bit small.
Maybe I get around to take some photos in the coming days and share them here.
There's a third market for traditional quality materials that hasn't been mentioned.......the folks who live and work (and play hard) outdoor all the time. Stalkers, rangers, bailiffs, the hunting, shooting, fishing folks, and the poachers.
Tweed, ventile, good woollens, high quality cottons; all quiet, all hardwearing, all comfortable, all natural colours, all weatherproof in some form or other, have never gone out of fashion or use, there.
Tbh, I reckon bushcraft lends itself more to that type of clothing than it does to modern synthetics that are noisy, garish, stink with sweat, delaminate and are virtually unrepairable.
Horses for courses as they say
I'm not agin modern fibres, they can be very good............in civilisation
cheers,
Toddy
Tweed, ventile, good woollens, high quality cottons; all quiet, all hardwearing, all comfortable, all natural colours, all weatherproof in some form or other, have never gone out of fashion or use, there.
Tbh, I reckon bushcraft lends itself more to that type of clothing than it does to modern synthetics that are noisy, garish, stink with sweat, delaminate and are virtually unrepairable.
Horses for courses as they say
I'm not agin modern fibres, they can be very good............in civilisation
cheers,
Toddy
I should add that I've owned goretex parkas nearly since the day they came out and I'm still waiting for one that "breathes" like it's supposed to. Been soaked to the bone on cool dry days just hiking around while wearing goretex. Ventile was a revelation to me, because unless it's raining cats and dogs, I stay dry as a bone in it. Hence, I'm a fan.
I think that if I was getting too hot and started to sweat the logical thing for me would be to remove my jacket
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Yeah, but then you have to carry it 
The concept of layers on and off is fine, until you've to lug them around.
On t'other hand, clothing that can be opened up to allow evaporation, air flow, etc., that works
I think the only thing that doesn't apply is a lightweight poncho for the torrential downpours that don't last long. Fling it on, stud it close and wait for the weather to change......so far today we've had brilliant sunshine, torrential rain, drizzle, overcast and light winds. A fortnight ago we had snow and hail added into that mix, all in the space of a couple of hours.
Our weather systems are weird
atb,
M
The concept of layers on and off is fine, until you've to lug them around.
On t'other hand, clothing that can be opened up to allow evaporation, air flow, etc., that works
I think the only thing that doesn't apply is a lightweight poncho for the torrential downpours that don't last long. Fling it on, stud it close and wait for the weather to change......so far today we've had brilliant sunshine, torrential rain, drizzle, overcast and light winds. A fortnight ago we had snow and hail added into that mix, all in the space of a couple of hours.
Our weather systems are weird
atb,
M
To illustrate Toddy's point, i have just come back from a long walk. When i left it was raining blowing a gale and the thermometer was in single figures. So i wore a wool base, warmish wool jumper and a ventile jacket. No sooner i stepped out the door than the cloud broke up and for much of the next five hours the sun shone and it was quite warm. Yet at no point did i need to shed layers. The clothes that would have seen me through a few hours rainwere adaptable enough and breathable enough to keep me comfortable in sunshne too.
That's my whole point though. Wouldn't you want to carry clothing that is light enough and compactable enough so that it can be removed and carried comfortably? What happens if the Ventile jacket gets wet (I am not even talking about it leaking here), its breathability goes way down. Now you have to either wear a non breathable material, or pack up a heavy and bulky item. Seems like a combination of a wind shirt and a hard shell would weight significantly less and provide a lot more versatility for changing weather. On top of that, seems like you would need to carry a hard shell anyway for when there is actual rain. Seems like the Ventile jacket only serves as a wind shirt or soft shell, except that it is very heavy and bulky.
Seems to me like we are comparing apples to oranges. People say that they do no like GoreTex because it is not as breathable as Ventile. The issue is that they have very different roles. One is a hard shell (GoreTex) and the other is a soft shell (Ventile). There are many other soft shells on the market that will breathe just as well as Ventile, and be much lighter, etc. Even a simple surplus cotton jacket will do that-not for less weight, but certainly for less money. As far as a hard shell, doesn't seem like Ventile is replacing that if people are carrying extra jackets, ponchos, etc for when it rains.
Again, typically (from what I am used to here in the US, even in the rainy areas) you would have some type of very breathable, windproof insulation on, whether it be a wind shirt, hardened fleece, etc. On top of that you have the hard shell, but only when it is needed, i.e. when it rains. The rest of the time you put it away. Ventile seems to only cover the role of a soft shell, except that it is very heavy for what it is. I wouldn't mind wearing it around the city, or for a walk, but if I'm spending any serious time in the woods, for me it would be a ball and chain.
Anyway, not much more I can contribute here. We each wear what we do for different reasons. My personal opinion for the OP: there are a lot better ways to spend your money.
I would much rather wear clothes i don't need to take on and off all the time than be stashing a lightweight shell when the sun shines and putting it back on again when the rain comes. My ventile windshirt weighs 450g, not much heavier than the lighter soft shells.
Anyway, i have done sythetics, goretex-type membranes and pu coated nylon and i don't like them. Simple as that when it comes down to it.
Anyway, i have done sythetics, goretex-type membranes and pu coated nylon and i don't like them. Simple as that when it comes down to it.
In all fairness, I have to agree with a lot that has been posted by RG598, I have not seen anything on here or the web that has convinced me that Ventile is this wonder fabric. Its just an over priced cotton coat
So I think I might get myself a SAS windproof smock off ebay.
So I think I might get myself a SAS windproof smock off ebay.
Just for the record, double Ventile is pretty heavy and bulky; however, single Ventile is not. It also ticks the box admirably for your "very breathable, windproof insulation" and, if you genuinely want to spend any "serious time in the woods" is better than most synthetic garments because it is very quiet, does not get shredded by thorns and other prickly plants and does not suffer in the same way as synthetics do from wayward fire sparks and embers. For really, full-on "serious time in the woods", it remains a very good option.
I do carry and use my Goretex/eVent jacket when it is absolutely tipping it down but, then again, so do you, Ross. And, like you, I tuck it away when the rain passes. The Ventile, because of its comfort, stays on. If conditions become even more clement, then I remove the Ventile too and stow it in my pack. I'm happy to do that because it is neither too bulky nor too heavy. I do not use the Ventile as an alternative hard shell but it does tick nearly the boxes of soft shell and windshirt - either of which you would be happy to carry and use.
Ventile is not a "wonder fabric". Like every single piece of man-made cloth, it can never be as efficient as human skin. Nothing can. It does work very well in the woods, will improve with age and use and, ultimately, will outlast any synthetic hard shell.
But, when all's said and done, it's down to the individual to choose something that suits their needs, budget, foibles and sense of style.
Pop onto a hiking, cycling or hunting forum and you'll quickly find a general trend on the best sort of thing to wear.
This is because the vast majority of the forums members are carrying out the same or very similar activities.
On here though we have a VAST difference in activity level.
We have some like me that are more hikers than bushcrafters, we have others that a 500m walk from the car seems like a hike.
There are then different experience and backgrounds.
Some think that by wearing "old school" type fabrics they are true bushcrafters, others prefer the experience outdoors more than fitting into any group.
Then there is those that are close minded before they start, and others that are willing to try new things in new ways.
So it's a massive mix we have here and anyone that is looking for advice should look at the person they are getting that advice from.
It's no good getting advice from a car camper on breathable clothing if you intend to buy something to climb Ben Nevis is it.
Likewise it's no good listening to advice for clothing from someone in Greece when you plan on hiking North of the Arctic circle.
I have worn ventile extensively, it has it's advantages in that it's non flammable and fairly quiet.
I am in a position today were i have the option of buying and wearing ventile if i wanted to, yet i do not own a single ventile product, why is that?
Because it is nowhere near as good as my man made fabrics in the activities i do.
It's heavy, bulky and is an absolute nightmare when it's wetted out.
Gortex, eVent, neoshell etc etc are not miracle fabrics, they are designed to stop water ingress so as a result by sheer design they will not breath as well as say a fleece jumper.
So common sense needs to be used, if you feel yourself getting hot, stop and take a layer off.
If your still getting sweaty then by simply slowing down a noggin it makes a massive difference.
If your not active and are sitting round most the day then wetted out ventile will not seem to be too bad.
Get up and walk up a hill though and you'll quickly realise how poor a choice ventile is for active users.
Use a well spec'd layering system, be sensible in taking off layers when you get warm and the man made materials mean you are a LOT more comfortable under active use.
This is because the vast majority of the forums members are carrying out the same or very similar activities.
On here though we have a VAST difference in activity level.
We have some like me that are more hikers than bushcrafters, we have others that a 500m walk from the car seems like a hike.
There are then different experience and backgrounds.
Some think that by wearing "old school" type fabrics they are true bushcrafters, others prefer the experience outdoors more than fitting into any group.
Then there is those that are close minded before they start, and others that are willing to try new things in new ways.
So it's a massive mix we have here and anyone that is looking for advice should look at the person they are getting that advice from.
It's no good getting advice from a car camper on breathable clothing if you intend to buy something to climb Ben Nevis is it.
Likewise it's no good listening to advice for clothing from someone in Greece when you plan on hiking North of the Arctic circle.
I have worn ventile extensively, it has it's advantages in that it's non flammable and fairly quiet.
I am in a position today were i have the option of buying and wearing ventile if i wanted to, yet i do not own a single ventile product, why is that?
Because it is nowhere near as good as my man made fabrics in the activities i do.
It's heavy, bulky and is an absolute nightmare when it's wetted out.
Gortex, eVent, neoshell etc etc are not miracle fabrics, they are designed to stop water ingress so as a result by sheer design they will not breath as well as say a fleece jumper.
So common sense needs to be used, if you feel yourself getting hot, stop and take a layer off.
If your still getting sweaty then by simply slowing down a noggin it makes a massive difference.
If your not active and are sitting round most the day then wetted out ventile will not seem to be too bad.
Get up and walk up a hill though and you'll quickly realise how poor a choice ventile is for active users.
Use a well spec'd layering system, be sensible in taking off layers when you get warm and the man made materials mean you are a LOT more comfortable under active use.
just had another thought come to me, has anyone noticed how the softshells with fleece lining and a smooth outer, not the buffalo types, how heavy they are when wet? compared to a micro fleece and ventile or garbadine top? i've washed them before and thought how heavy they were, and then flying in the face of the modern fibres drying quicker train of thought, if totally wet thru it took two days indoors to dry the softshell. yet my smock will be dry enough after just a couple of hours. i know the cirumstances would need to be to be extreme for a softshell to get that wet in actual use, but i wouldn't fancy luggin what would feel like a wet carpet around with me, or trying to keep warm in one out in the open.
the drying time when compared i'm sure actually would show the ventile and micro fleece softshell combination dry quicker than the hardened soft shell option, and the first option would offer more fleibility long term as its 2 items of layering, rather than one jacket.
its probably just a non starter cul de sac type train of thought. but, i reckon a proofed garbadine, or a ventile over a fleece and base layer is more flexible than its modern equivelent. however, i still reckon a dedicated waterproof main jacket or parka type is irreplacable.
this could just be me trying to justify having all three options in my wardrobe!
the drying time when compared i'm sure actually would show the ventile and micro fleece softshell combination dry quicker than the hardened soft shell option, and the first option would offer more fleibility long term as its 2 items of layering, rather than one jacket.
its probably just a non starter cul de sac type train of thought. but, i reckon a proofed garbadine, or a ventile over a fleece and base layer is more flexible than its modern equivelent. however, i still reckon a dedicated waterproof main jacket or parka type is irreplacable.
this could just be me trying to justify having all three options in my wardrobe!
Oh Dear - seem to have opened up a can of worms here...
I have bought a Paramo Pajaro jacket after considering what I actually do in the woods:
I was attracted to ventile because I like to use natural materials wherever possible - merino base layers, cotton trousers and shirts, canvas and leather rucksacks etc. - but once you start investigating, something like cotton isn't such a "clean" crop after all (try this: http://peopleandplanet.org/redressfashion/briefing/dirty DISCLAIMER: I am in no way suggesting that the manufacturers of ventile use cotton produced in this way!) basically the picture is very confused on this, especially as we have manufacturers of "plastic" clothing using recycled plastics.
However, if I ever get the money again, I might well go for a single ventile smock (always an eye on the 'Bay!) because, as many have pointed out, there is no single, perfect material or garment. Also, as I have often pointed out, when you die, the man with the most kit wins...
I have bought a Paramo Pajaro jacket after considering what I actually do in the woods:
- I rarely light fires - I don't own the woods I go to and this is frowned upon by those that do own them.
- I track wildlife, watch birds, stalk the odd deer - sometimes in heavy, prolonged rain and cold weather.
- I go for a quick jaunt in the woods on my way home from work, when opportunity allows.
- I walk long distance paths over several days and/or spend 3-4 days at a time in the mountains.
- I attend bushy events from time to time.
I was attracted to ventile because I like to use natural materials wherever possible - merino base layers, cotton trousers and shirts, canvas and leather rucksacks etc. - but once you start investigating, something like cotton isn't such a "clean" crop after all (try this: http://peopleandplanet.org/redressfashion/briefing/dirty DISCLAIMER: I am in no way suggesting that the manufacturers of ventile use cotton produced in this way!) basically the picture is very confused on this, especially as we have manufacturers of "plastic" clothing using recycled plastics.
However, if I ever get the money again, I might well go for a single ventile smock (always an eye on the 'Bay!) because, as many have pointed out, there is no single, perfect material or garment. Also, as I have often pointed out, when you die, the man with the most kit wins...
I think you described the role of Ventile very well. That is exactly what I had in mind. My point was that for what it is (a soft shell/wind shirt) it is too expensive. An army surplus cotton coat or even shirt will do the same job in that capacity. The cotton shirt may be somewhat worse in the rain, but since we are carrying a hard shell anyway, doesn't seem to matter. As far as equally expensive options, there are much, much lighter options when it comes to wind shirts. Whether you prioritize weight or durability in a $300 coat will depend on what exactly you are doing in it. I think cbr6fs put it very well. If price is an issue, then I don't see why from a functional, practical stand point a Ventile jacket is better than a regular cotton one for third the price.
As a side note (issue I noticed from other posts), just because something is breathable doesn't mean that it can adjust its thermal regulation, or that it will not get completely wet from sweat. Assuming one is doing any type of activity in the woods it is close to impossible for the same clothing to be worn when inactive and when climbing up a mountain with a 30lb pack, no matter how breathable. Again, I think cbr6fs said it well.
All said 2 excellent jackets for the price of an average ventile. I have a Swedish Army Snow Smock and they are great and an old Paramo coat.
On the point of budget, I agree: Ventile is very pricey and there is sense in going for a cheaper cotton option, if that's what you can afford and if the coat/jacket/parka satisfies your outdoor needs.
In over twenty years of climbing in the Alps and Greater Ranges, I did not carry or use a Ventile jacket. This, I'm sorry to say, was mostly because I was wowed by the makers of synthetic breathable gear; even now, old habits die hard: when out in the hills and pointy landscape (something I still do with annoying regularity...), the Ventile is often left behind. I think that this comes from the idea that my waterproof will not only keep out rain but it'll block wind too, so obviating the need for windshirts and softshells almost entirely, as far as I'm concerned. If, when slogging uphill with pack on back, I get hot, I simply unzip the front - it works! When the weather comes in, I'm all ready and do not have to rummage in my pack for my hardshell.
But I have assumed that, on this Bushcraft website and forum, the activity under discussion was, essentially, bushcraft. For that pursuit (which occupies my remaining waking hours when down from the hills...), I reckon that, for me at least, Ventile is a pretty versatile, if expensive, material.
When the cross-over between hills and woodland occurs, then I always include the Ventile simply because, after years of wear, it is outrageously comfortable... a bit like a favourite t-shirt or pair of pyjamas. Yes, comfort and familiarity are important!
I think you are right about over hyped modern materials. I feel they are overpriced as well. That's why I stick to a cheap nylon shell. I'm sure other miracle materials are more breathable, but not $200 more breathable.
I have a ventile jacket and keeps only the lightest showers out, anything else soaks right through, however the double layered areas of the hood and shoulders remained dry, so my conclusion is single layer ventile is crap and either a heavier weight grade of ventile is needed, or two layers of thin grade ventile to be effective.
Grangers proofing helped the rain bead off, however I dislike having to rely on after market proofers and such like.
All being said I still love my ventile jacket, but would not rely on it for a serious winter hike.
Grangers proofing helped the rain bead off, however I dislike having to rely on after market proofers and such like.
All being said I still love my ventile jacket, but would not rely on it for a serious winter hike.
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