Theoretical and academic (for now) question about wood

[Hile_Troy]

I am seriously considering making a tipi of fairly traditional design and am wondering, if I do not have access to Lodge Pole Pine (which I don't) and I only have common UK woods to choose from, what wood from the following list would be suitable for making 14ish foot long tipi poles from?

Currently, to aid in transportation, the idea is to cut the poles in half and shave down the ends so they can be joined with a snug-fitting plastic sleeve. Bearing all this in mind, and also considering I want total weight to be as light as possible (this is not a travel-light-move-fast set up by any stretch of the imagination, but I'd like to be able to carry the things myself, even if just for a short distance) what would people recommend?

(Lets for the time being assume I have all the necessary permissions and won't be doing anything illegal to 'acquire' the wood, I am aware of the law of the land, of bushcraft, and of the forum)

This is the list of available wood:

Alder
Elder
Birch
Oak
Ash
Chestnut (Sweet and Horse)
Elm
Willow
Rowan
Hazel
Sycamore

What do you think? Are there better woods that are not on the list? Are there better solutions than using wood?

All suggestions gratefully recieved

 

[dwardo]

I am seriously considering making a tipi of fairly traditional design and am wondering, if I do not have access to Lodge Pole Pine (which I don't) and I only have common UK woods to choose from, what wood from the following list would be suitable for making 14ish foot long tipi poles from?

Currently, to aid in transportation, the idea is to cut the poles in half and shave down the ends so they can be joined with a snug-fitting plastic sleeve. Bearing all this in mind, and also considering I want total weight to be as light as possible (this is not a travel-light-move-fast set up by any stretch of the imagination, but I'd like to be able to carry the things myself, even if just for a short distance) what would people recommend?

(Lets for the time being assume I have all the necessary permissions and won't be doing anything illegal to 'acquire' the wood, I am aware of the law of the land, of bushcraft, and of the forum)

This is the list of available wood:

Alder
Elder
Birch
Oak
Ash
Chestnut (Sweet and Horse)
Elm
Willow
Rowan
Hazel
Sycamore

What do you think? Are there better woods that are not on the list? Are there better solutions than using wood?

All suggestions gratefully recieved

I think your problem will be finding any of the above woods in the right kind of lengths and dimensions.
Most of these woods will also weigh in more that the pine. Depending on the size and weight of the tipi you may want to consider metal collars as there is a lot of bend and weight at the mid point.

Most woods other than pine will put out brig branches much lower down reducing their usability. I am constantly on the look out for long straight timber and by that i mean over 60 inches and i struggle constantly.

Just a thought but I wonder if bamboo could be suitable. Might cost you a few quid though.

With projects like these their history has done most of the research for you.

 

[Goatboy]

I'm with Dwardo on this, Spruce, pine, firs & larch will generally be lighter, straighter, and with less knotting. Especially when close grown and not thinned. Are there any local plantations that have close grown unthinned timber? If so a lot of that wood is almost scrap as it generally costs more to harvest, so you might be lucky and get it for free or a nominal fee - a pint or two with the forester. Think metal collars would be more robust or heavy rubber tubing and pipe clamps. Seven foot poles are a pain to walk with through woodland though, believe me. Good luck and have a look around. Have you thought about telescopic carbon fibre poles like the radio hams use?

GB.

 

[21st century pict]

Hi Hile- Troy
Lodge Pole Pine is very common around here in NE Scotland
If you’re sure you can’t get a hold of some Lodge pole you would probably best still stick stick “no pun intended” to the pine or fir trees.
If you want to use trees native to the UK I would go for Ash.
After Lodge pole my first choice would be Larch, Spruce or Douglas.

I made a 11ft canoe pole from a 20ft dead standing Lodge pole pine in the woods recently, I just cut it down debarked it on the spot with my Buck knife and cut it to around 12ft, total time probably around 20 minutes, I remember at the time thinking that it would have made a great lodge or Tipi pole or a very nice mast for a boat. Getting the real thing would probably be a lot easier in the long run for you.

 

[mrcharly]

If you are going to make the poles in two halves, use a scarf joint and maybe high-tensile pipe clips like these:
http://www.asap-supplies.com/marine/304-stainless-steel-high-torque-jubilee-clips

 

[Lou]

I have been thinking of making myself a tipi for a long time now but the only thing stopping me has been where to get the poles from and also trying to find a sewing machine robust enough to handle sewing metres and metres of canvas together.

Recently we went to a specialist tree nursery here in France to buy some apple trees and there were some stakes being sold there which were long enough for tipi poles. I of course made a mental note to go back there at a later date, but we still will have logistic problems trying to get the poles back to our house along mountain roads. I am not sure what the poles were made of but it did not really matter as I have never seen anything like this before. If you found stakes like these in the UK you would need to shave them a little to smooth them and get the knots out of them, which is absolutely essential if you want the rain to run down the poles and not drip into the inside of the tipi.

Another possibility I saw recently, though not wood, was a second hand windsurfing pole, strong, long and light! I would imagine you would have to make this a long term project however if you wanted to collect 17 second hand windsurf poles one at a time. I bet you can find them on eBay though

 

[Hile_Troy]

I have been thinking of making myself a tipi for a long time now but the only thing stopping me has been where to get the poles from and also trying to find a sewing machine robust enough to handle sewing metres and metres of canvas together.

Fortunately my missus has a machine that'll handle the job, she's sewn double thicknesses of coated banner material before now so it'll do a treat.

Another possibility I saw recently, though not wood, was a second hand windsurfing pole, strong, long and light! I would imagine you would have to make this a long term project however if you wanted to collect 17 second hand windsurf poles one at a time. I bet you can find them on eBay though

I've thought of a few inventive solutions (but, i'll admit that wasn't one of them, bravo) the limiting factor for alternatives is the cost of purchasing the poles for full price off the tinterweb. If the solution is more expensive than that (approx £200) then it is obviously a no-no. It is for this reason that I discarded the idea of using fishing poles, prohibitively expensive.

 

[21st century pict]

I went round to the "New Age community" at Findhorn to look at the Tipi and Yurt construction not long ago, (which coincidently they don’t have, not green enough perhaps, they seem to prefer their big money time shares apartments.) I mentioned to one of the dudes there that I was thinking of building a Lodge, He then tried to sell me the poles for around £40 quid each, He may have dressed like a hippy but he was rip-off merchant all the same. I told him to get stuffed, I told him Hey Bro I can walk in to that woods over there (about two hundred yards away) and make them for myself MAN. New age not likely neo pseudo cash hippy more like, what a burn.
Johnny Rotten was right, "Never trust a hippy".

 

[Hile_Troy]

I went round to the "New Age community" at Findhorn to look at the Tipi and Yurt construction not long ago, (which coincidently they don’t have) I mentioned to one of the dudes there that I was thinking of building a Lodge, He then tried to sell me the poles for around £40 quid each, He may have dressed like a hippy but he was rip-off merchant all the same. I told him to get stuffed, I told him Hey Bro I can walk in to that woods over there (about two hundred yards away) and make them for myself MAN. New age not likely neo pseudo cash hippy more like, what a burn.

Sadly most hippies have now had the time to discover that, while the music was good, the drugs plentiful, the clothes groovy and ethnic and the food healthy (if a little heavy on the lentils), the economic philosophy of hippy does not lead to great wealth (and those afghan coats don't come cheap). As a result many have turned to the diabolical concept of consumerism. They'll still be able to make you a cracking good organic houmous and flatbread, but they'll charge the (Gaia, Mother Goddess of the...) Earth for it.

 

[dwardo]

Its like everything that involves labour, it starts costing money.
I would think the wood its self is near worthless to any one who is managing a woodland in terms of re-sale value.
The cost would be the time it takes to cut the tree and pull it out of the woods. Then carefully cut the the 100+ branches off clean, then remove the bark which would be a pain in the butt with all those knots and old branches, then clean up and trim the ends properly. All this preferably from seasoned pre-cut timber so it doesnt warp and check as dries. Then repeat 12 times.

Starts to make it easier to see where the cost comes from. Big savings if you get your hands dirty though and i am sure it gets easier after the 11th pole

 

[mrcharly]

the poles for around £40 quid each, He may have dressed like a hippy but he was rip-off merchant all the same. I told him to get stuffed, I told him Hey Bro I can walk in to that woods over there (about two hundred yards away) and make them for myself MAN. .

Could you make them for yourself, MAN?

Cutting whose trees?

If it is so simple and easy to grow the poles, then I suggest you go and do it on your own land. Otherwise be prepared to pay someone else for their trees or wood.

 

[21st century pict]

Could you make them for yourself, MAN?

Cutting whose trees?

If it is so simple and easy to grow the poles, then I suggest you go and do it on your own land. Otherwise be prepared to pay someone else for their trees or wood.

Yea easy for me I’ve done it before, dead standing well seasoned Lodge pole time to prepare perhaps 20min.
I used to work with the SWT and one of our jobs was to cut it out and burn the stuff, it’s a pest in some areas and if I wanted any I just go round to my pals and help him clear the forest where he is building a cabin and it would only cost me a couple o beers.
Grow the poles?.

By the way I was only there to look at a tipi's construction not to have some pushy pseudo hippie buissnes w###r force himself on me when I was only asking for directions to a Tipi then bull S##t me about a yurt that didin't exsist and try and sell me some of his c##p wood to make a quick buck. You catch my drift man.

 

[franglais]

£40 doesn't sound that expensive for poles, Iv'e stripped and prepared tipi poles and quite a few hours work go into it, along with the time it takes to cut and collect, yes it's cheaper to make your own but sixteen poles is a lot of work. The other alternative is to buy lengths of 2"x2" and use a spoke shave to round them off, if you want to transport them join with a piece of scaffold or similar pipe around 6" long, make sure the tripod poles are really strong as tripod strength is crucial.

 

[21st century pict]

Like I said I have dropped and striped a pole in 20min with a 6 Inch Buck knife.
But £600+ for 16 polls that sounds like a rip-off to me.
WWw Tipipols. bla bla bla. com only charge £364 for a set of 14 poles @ 14 Ft. or £182 @ £13 each for a pole with the bark still on which is not to bad if you want to put some effort in yourself save a lot of cash.

 

[santaman2000]

Like I said I have dropped and striped a pole in 20min with a 6 Inch Buck knife.
But £600+ for 16 polls that sounds like a rip-off to me.

Aproper tipi pole? I don't know what they're selling; but a proper Sioux tipi pole is about 6" at the base end and is around 25 feet long.

 

[21st century pict]

A set of 17 poles @ 25ft is around £374 with the bark still on about £22 each. Peeled around £784 @ £44 each pole

a proper Sioux tipi pole is about 6" at the base end and is around 25 feet long.

25ft -8 meters that would be a stunning Tipi Santaman.

 

[21st century pict]

Oops sorry gave it the old double tap there, nothing to see here please move along.......

 

[santaman2000]

-----------------------

That sounds reasonable. More than I'm willing to pay, but reasonable.

 

[21st century pict]

I wouldn’t pay for poles ether but as for making the canvas cover and liner, well a man has to know his limitations.
£1500 + just for the cover and liner

 

[dwardo]

Its all a case of what our are prepared to do your self and how much leg work you want to put in. If you want it quick and easy then your gonna have to cough up. If not then its lots of asking around and eventually a lot of elbow grease Much more satisfying in my experience.